K-1 sensor shake?

**travelswsage** · 05-11-2017, 06:55 PM

Hi all,

Had noticed that some of my tripod mounted shots with the K-1 and dfa 70-200 were coming out soft and some downright blurry and couldn't figure out why. Just got to use the this combo in Utah and was mainly shooting by manual focus in live view with electronic shutter. I was in magnified live view and noticed the live view shaking even though the camera was locked down tight on the tripod -- a feisol 3342 carbon fiber tripod with markins Q3 head (basically for mid-weight setups) -- even though everything looked solid and I could discern no movement it seems the gusting wind buffeting the camera was transferring vibration to the sensor and was clearly visible in magnified live view modes (unmagnified the setup looked solid). I was wondering whether anyone else had noticed this in their shooting and whether a heavier duty tripod would make a difference? Are cameras with IBIS (pentax, sony, etc.) more prone to this because of the ability of the sensor to move than say the CaNikons with their stationery sensor? I thought shake reduction turns off authomatically when you go into live view and shoot with a remote and ES or am I wrong on this?

Thanks for any thoughts ...

Rich

**BigDave** · 05-11-2017, 07:15 PM

The rule is to turn off SR when on a tripod. It actually works again you. The nice thing about the K-1 is you have the function wheel that lets you get right to SR and tunr it off quickly. There are other ways through info and such, but this is the quickest!

I forget to do it sometimes and wonder why the image is soft....

DUH!

**jatrax** · 05-11-2017, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by travelswsage

I thought shake reduction turns off authomatically when you go into live view and shoot with a remote and ES or am I wrong on this?

SR should turn off automatically when you use Liveview, turn on the self timer or use the remote setting. You can verify by watching the SR icon on the screen. If SR is indeed off when you are shooting then that is not the issue.

Originally posted by travelswsage

Are cameras with IBIS (pentax, sony, etc.) more prone to this because of the ability of the sensor to move than say the CaNikons with their stationery sensor?

No. The sensor is held rigidly by the magnetics so unless SR is on it should be no different than a fixed sensor. Try you shots again on a day with no wind and see if there is a difference. I have been surprised several times by poor results in gusty conditions on a tripod. There is more movement due to wind than many people think. You could also try a similar shot hand held with SR on to test the functionality.

70-200 is a big chunk of metal and it will move in gusty conditions.

**Bob 256** · 05-11-2017, 08:24 PM

A problem with most anti-shake systems is when there is very little shake, noise in the sensor system actually jitters the sensor around and can create an artificial "shake". Though small, it can lead to blurry pictures when they are examined under magnification. That's why it's best to turn the anti-shake off when using a tripod. It's somewhat like a person that experiences ringing in the ears (tinnitus). It decreases when the background sounds are louder but becomes a problem with total silence.

Woe to me as well, I forgot to do that when shooting some 500mm shots on a tripod recently (first time with my K-1 and the 500mm), and the photos looked like the camera was shaking when I magnified them. At first, I thought the lens had a problem, but then I remembered what I did and since have done some crisp shots without the anti-shake turned on.

Last edited by Bob 256; 05-11-2017 at 08:29 PM.

Na Horuk · 05-12-2017, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

SR should turn off automatically when you use Liveview, turn on the self timer or use the remote setting.

I don't think Live view disables SR. Some cameras have an option whether SR is constantly active in LV or whether it only activates for the photo. But I don't think LV disables SR, like the 2 sec timer does. At least, it doesn't on my Pentax cameras.

Originally posted by travelswsage

I thought shake reduction turns off authomatically when you go into live view and shoot with a remote and ES or am I wrong on this?

You can see the SR icon on the screen or in the viewfinder. It should be pretty clear whether it is active or not.
Keep in mind there could be other reasons for softness, such as any tripod shake or misfocusing, or even a filter or some grime on the back lens element. Can you post a sample photo so we can help diagnose the problem?

Gimbal · 05-12-2017, 12:45 AM

ES and IR remote turns off SR unless something has changed recently.
SR gets a lot of blame when shooting from a tripod even though it’s almost impossible to use SR with a tripod without also physically poking the camera using the normal shutter button. A wired remote I believe is the only way to use SR on a tripod, and then the remote has to be able to half press first to engage SR before shooting.

**travelswsage** · 05-12-2017, 06:22 AM

Thanks for all the responses -- my understanding is that the IR remote shuts off the SR so I'm pretty sure SR wasn't the problem. My best guess is that this lens/camera combo might simply not be sturdy enough in heavier winds and that vibrations from the wind were transferring to the camera/sensor. Photos taken without heavy winds or during lulls are sharp (or sharper) and almost everything taken with the 28-105 were also sharp. In this scenario what I'm not entirely sure about is if the sensor is held in place by magnets and does not move why does it look like the scene is shaking in magnified modes -- is what I am seeing really vibrations of the entire camera not visible unmagnified but nevertheless occurring and not just the sensor moving?

**BigDave** · 05-12-2017, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by travelswsage

is what I am seeing really vibrations of the entire camera not visible unmagnified but nevertheless occurring and not just the sensor moving?

Perhaps you could post an image or two of what you are experiencing. SR may just be one of the possible causes.

Regards,

Gimbal · 05-12-2017, 06:39 AM

Use the 200mm lens, zoom in with live view and flick the camera/lens with your finger and see if the scene vibrates. It's sensitive when magnified like this.

**jatrax** · 05-12-2017, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

I don't think Live view disables SR.

@Na Horuk I did not think so either but it does on the K-1. Liveview does not turn off SR on my K-3II but it does turn it off on my K-1. I did not realize that until the OP asked his question and curious I picked up the K-1 and tested it. Very surprised

Possibly there is a setting someplace that controls this behavior but I have not found it.

Na Horuk · 05-12-2017, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

@Na Horuk I did not think so either but it does on the K-1. Liveview does not turn off SR on my K-3II but it does turn it off on my K-1. I did not realize that until the OP asked his question and curious I picked up the K-1 and tested it. Very surprised Possibly there is a setting someplace that controls this behavior but I have not found it.

Wow! Its so odd when cameras have these little changes, can really trick people. So, sorry for my comment above - I stand corrected!

Unregistered User · 05-12-2017, 09:51 AM

If you have ES enabled and turn on LV the SR turnes off but if ES is disabled the SR does not turn off when in single shooting mode.

cali92rs · 05-12-2017, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

I have been surprised several times by poor results in gusty conditions on a tripod. There is more movement due to wind than many people think. You could also try a similar shot hand held with SR on to test the functionality.

70-200 is a big chunk of metal and it will move in gusty conditions.

+1

I have had experienced a fair amount of shake with even a smaller lens in gusty conditions.
In cases like this, it is better just to increase the shutter speed and live with higher ISO and more noise.

**jatrax** · 05-12-2017, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

If you have ES enabled and turn on LV the SR turns off but if ES is disabled the SR does not turn off when in single shooting mode.

Ah that is the setting! Thank you for posting that, you are correct. And since the K-1 is the first Pentax with ES (I think) that explains why no one noticed before.

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Wow! Its so odd when cameras have these little changes, can really trick people.

I wonder if the engineers even know what consequences a particular change might have. In this case they add ES which for some reason turns off SR in Liveview. Which is a nice feature for tripod shooters using wired remotes, but they told no one so we did not even know.

**travelswsage** · 05-12-2017, 08:13 PM

For those who asked I've attached a couple of samples of the softness -- since I've found other shots in each sequence that are sharper I'd imagine that the wind has more of an effect than I thought.

05-11-2017, 06:55 PM	#1
travelswsage Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 385	K-1 sensor shake? Hi all, Had noticed that some of my tripod mounted shots with the K-1 and dfa 70-200 were coming out soft and some downright blurry and couldn't figure out why. Just got to use the this combo in Utah and was mainly shooting by manual focus in live view with electronic shutter. I was in magnified live view and noticed the live view shaking even though the camera was locked down tight on the tripod -- a feisol 3342 carbon fiber tripod with markins Q3 head (basically for mid-weight setups) -- even though everything looked solid and I could discern no movement it seems the gusting wind buffeting the camera was transferring vibration to the sensor and was clearly visible in magnified live view modes (unmagnified the setup looked solid). I was wondering whether anyone else had noticed this in their shooting and whether a heavier duty tripod would make a difference? Are cameras with IBIS (pentax, sony, etc.) more prone to this because of the ability of the sensor to move than say the CaNikons with their stationery sensor? I thought shake reduction turns off authomatically when you go into live view and shoot with a remote and ES or am I wrong on this? Thanks for any thoughts ... Rich

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05-11-2017, 07:15 PM	#2
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	The rule is to turn off SR when on a tripod. It actually works again you. The nice thing about the K-1 is you have the function wheel that lets you get right to SR and tunr it off quickly. There are other ways through info and such, but this is the quickest! I forget to do it sometimes and wonder why the image is soft.... DUH!

05-11-2017, 07:47 PM	#3
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by travelswsage I thought shake reduction turns off authomatically when you go into live view and shoot with a remote and ES or am I wrong on this? SR should turn off automatically when you use Liveview, turn on the self timer or use the remote setting. You can verify by watching the SR icon on the screen. If SR is indeed off when you are shooting then that is not the issue. Originally posted by travelswsage Are cameras with IBIS (pentax, sony, etc.) more prone to this because of the ability of the sensor to move than say the CaNikons with their stationery sensor? No. The sensor is held rigidly by the magnetics so unless SR is on it should be no different than a fixed sensor. Try you shots again on a day with no wind and see if there is a difference. I have been surprised several times by poor results in gusty conditions on a tripod. There is more movement due to wind than many people think. You could also try a similar shot hand held with SR on to test the functionality. 70-200 is a big chunk of metal and it will move in gusty conditions.

05-11-2017, 08:24 PM	#4
Bob 256 Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Idaho Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,377	A problem with most anti-shake systems is when there is very little shake, noise in the sensor system actually jitters the sensor around and can create an artificial "shake". Though small, it can lead to blurry pictures when they are examined under magnification. That's why it's best to turn the anti-shake off when using a tripod. It's somewhat like a person that experiences ringing in the ears (tinnitus). It decreases when the background sounds are louder but becomes a problem with total silence. Woe to me as well, I forgot to do that when shooting some 500mm shots on a tripod recently (first time with my K-1 and the 500mm), and the photos looked like the camera was shaking when I magnified them. At first, I thought the lens had a problem, but then I remembered what I did and since have done some crisp shots without the anti-shake turned on. Last edited by Bob 256; 05-11-2017 at 08:29 PM.

05-12-2017, 12:02 AM	#5
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by jatrax SR should turn off automatically when you use Liveview, turn on the self timer or use the remote setting. I don't think Live view disables SR. Some cameras have an option whether SR is constantly active in LV or whether it only activates for the photo. But I don't think LV disables SR, like the 2 sec timer does. At least, it doesn't on my Pentax cameras. Originally posted by travelswsage I thought shake reduction turns off authomatically when you go into live view and shoot with a remote and ES or am I wrong on this? You can see the SR icon on the screen or in the viewfinder. It should be pretty clear whether it is active or not. Keep in mind there could be other reasons for softness, such as any tripod shake or misfocusing, or even a filter or some grime on the back lens element. Can you post a sample photo so we can help diagnose the problem?

05-12-2017, 12:45 AM	#6
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	ES and IR remote turns off SR unless something has changed recently. SR gets a lot of blame when shooting from a tripod even though it’s almost impossible to use SR with a tripod without also physically poking the camera using the normal shutter button. A wired remote I believe is the only way to use SR on a tripod, and then the remote has to be able to half press first to engage SR before shooting.

05-12-2017, 06:22 AM	#7
travelswsage Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 385 Original Poster	Thanks for all the responses -- my understanding is that the IR remote shuts off the SR so I'm pretty sure SR wasn't the problem. My best guess is that this lens/camera combo might simply not be sturdy enough in heavier winds and that vibrations from the wind were transferring to the camera/sensor. Photos taken without heavy winds or during lulls are sharp (or sharper) and almost everything taken with the 28-105 were also sharp. In this scenario what I'm not entirely sure about is if the sensor is held in place by magnets and does not move why does it look like the scene is shaking in magnified modes -- is what I am seeing really vibrations of the entire camera not visible unmagnified but nevertheless occurring and not just the sensor moving?

05-12-2017, 06:34 AM	#8
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	Originally posted by travelswsage is what I am seeing really vibrations of the entire camera not visible unmagnified but nevertheless occurring and not just the sensor moving? Perhaps you could post an image or two of what you are experiencing. SR may just be one of the possible causes. Regards,

05-12-2017, 06:39 AM	#9
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Use the 200mm lens, zoom in with live view and flick the camera/lens with your finger and see if the scene vibrates. It's sensitive when magnified like this.

05-12-2017, 08:29 AM	#10
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Na Horuk I don't think Live view disables SR. @Na Horuk I did not think so either but it does on the K-1. Liveview does not turn off SR on my K-3II but it does turn it off on my K-1. I did not realize that until the OP asked his question and curious I picked up the K-1 and tested it. Very surprised Possibly there is a setting someplace that controls this behavior but I have not found it.

05-12-2017, 09:13 AM	#11
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by jatrax @Na Horuk I did not think so either but it does on the K-1. Liveview does not turn off SR on my K-3II but it does turn it off on my K-1. I did not realize that until the OP asked his question and curious I picked up the K-1 and tested it. Very surprised Possibly there is a setting someplace that controls this behavior but I have not found it. Wow! Its so odd when cameras have these little changes, can really trick people. So, sorry for my comment above - I stand corrected!

05-12-2017, 09:51 AM	#12
Unregistered User Guest	If you have ES enabled and turn on LV the SR turnes off but if ES is disabled the SR does not turn off when in single shooting mode.

05-12-2017, 12:04 PM	#13
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by jatrax I have been surprised several times by poor results in gusty conditions on a tripod. There is more movement due to wind than many people think. You could also try a similar shot hand held with SR on to test the functionality. 70-200 is a big chunk of metal and it will move in gusty conditions. +1 I have had experienced a fair amount of shake with even a smaller lens in gusty conditions. In cases like this, it is better just to increase the shutter speed and live with higher ISO and more noise.

05-12-2017, 12:46 PM	#14
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 If you have ES enabled and turn on LV the SR turns off but if ES is disabled the SR does not turn off when in single shooting mode. Ah that is the setting! Thank you for posting that, you are correct. And since the K-1 is the first Pentax with ES (I think) that explains why no one noticed before. Originally posted by Na Horuk Wow! Its so odd when cameras have these little changes, can really trick people. I wonder if the engineers even know what consequences a particular change might have. In this case they add ES which for some reason turns off SR in Liveview. Which is a nice feature for tripod shooters using wired remotes, but they told no one so we did not even know.