Pixel Shift PEF vs DNG image processing workflow info needed

VJEphoto · 07-13-2017, 06:12 AM

Greetings everyone!

As very few of you may know, I've recently acquired a new K1 with a couple of macro lenses for food photography. I am happy with the results I'm seeing so far (no doubt it is an upgrade over my APS-C Nikon), but I've been wanting to work more with pixel shift (P.S.) images - the reason I chose the K1 against the Nikon D810.

What I want to ask is - how are fellow K1 owners processing their P.S. images? Are you shooting PEF or DNG? Which software do you use and which do you think works best with P.S. files?

I know there area few articles on the web illustrating people's workflow, however all the info is from 2016. Pentax and the different software companies have both released several updates to their camera firmware and their editing programs respectively this year.

I find Digital Camera Utility 5 to be a painfully frustrating software to use. It has crashed on me several times. So I've resorted to either shooting DNG, or converting my PEFs to DNG via Adobe DNG Converter to use in Lightroom/ Photoshop. However I've not yet tested for P.S. files this way. It would be very appreciated if any of you could help me understand what is the best and most user-friendly way to go about processing P.S. files as of July 2017.

Many thanks in advance!

12345 · 07-13-2017, 07:24 AM

I don't have a camera that shoots PS photos, but I just saw recently that the free RAW processing software RawTherapee officially supports Pentax Pixel Shift photos. I'm sure some of the other members here can tell you more about it.

Ascencio · 07-13-2017, 07:28 AM

I haven't experienced any difference with PEF and DNG regarding pixel shift. I can only suggest setting motion control to off when not using Pentax software. I recently started using capture one pro and it is by far the fastest and most stable software out there. In lightroom i went back to PEF files because it appears to me that lightroom changes the appearance of DNG files more than PEF.

VJEphoto · 07-13-2017, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by Ascencio

I haven't experienced any difference with PEF and DNG regarding pixel shift. I can only suggest setting motion control to off when not using Pentax software. I recently started using capture one pro and it is by far the fastest and most stable software out there. In lightroom i went back to PEF files because it appears to me that lightroom changes the appearance of DNG files more than PEF.

Ok that's great to know. Now only if my Camera Raw could start reading PEF files. Though that is an issue on my side as I'm using older versions of Adobe software.

Franc · 07-13-2017, 08:26 AM

use rawtherapee, its the quickest and have more tweaks available then DCU5.
I prefer DNG with rt.

stevebrot · 07-13-2017, 09:14 AM

The two file types are fully data equivalent. Any difference in processing workflow (PEF vs DNG) would depend on tool support.

Steve

stevebrot · 07-13-2017, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by VJEphoto

Ok that's great to know. Now only if my Camera Raw could start reading PEF files. Though that is an issue on my side as I'm using older versions of Adobe software.

Welcome to the Adobe business model. Even with DNG, your older version will not support pixel-shift and even with a newer version the pixel-shift support is poor.

Steve

heckflosse · 07-13-2017, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Ascencio

I can only suggest setting motion control to off when not using Pentax software.

For RawTherapee (which is not a Pentax software) there is no difference whether motion control is set to on or off in camera when shooting PS.

Pixelhdr · 07-13-2017, 10:33 AM

When I do use pixel shift, which is quite often, I tend to be very selective. That means I usually only have a few files to process. I have no problem using PDCU and I only use PDCU to process the raw files into TIFFs which are then imported into LR for additional adjustments.

Na Horuk · 07-13-2017, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Pixelhdr

I have no problem using PDCU and I only use PDCU to process the raw files into TIFFs which are then imported into LR for additional adjustments.

I think this is a good method whenever you are using more than one software. You do the first steps, like lens profile correction, PS stuff, CA correction, maybe even noise reduction and things like cloning out dust spots in the first software, then export as 16 bit tiff (usually its best to use tiff without compression, as some software can't open compressed tiff files), and then open that tiff in the next software.
I don't have a PS camera, but that's what I do when using plugins or going between LR and RawTherapee and so on.
RawTherapee is pretty nice, even though its a bit more complicated to use than LR.

DeadJohn · 07-13-2017, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

I think this is a good method whenever you are using more than one software. You do the first steps, like lens profile correction, PS stuff, CA correction, maybe even noise reduction and things like cloning out dust spots in the first software, then export as 16 bit tiff (usually its best to use tiff without compression, as some software can't open compressed tiff files), and then open that tiff in the next software.
I don't have a PS camera, but that's what I do when using plugins or going between LR and RawTherapee and so on.
RawTherapee is pretty nice, even though its a bit more complicated to use than LR.

Having to use other software before LR greatly complicates library management. My usual workflow (and the workflow for the vast majority of LR users) is to import from camera into LR, then process. I want LR metadata to guide me to the photos that need to be processed for pixelshift.

If I have a 100 photos on my card and only 10 use pixelshift, I don't want to load all 100 into PDCU, process 10, then repeat loading the 90 unprocessed ones into LR for processing. It's much cleaner to put all 100 into LR, then pass the 10 to PDCU. Oh, how I wish PDCU worked as a LR plug-in...

heckflosse · 07-13-2017, 01:05 PM

Adobe has more than 15,000 employees worldwide. Why are they not able to implement Pentax PixelShift with motion detection themselve or at least buy a license of the implementations in PDCU or RawTherapee?

VJEphoto · 07-13-2017, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Franc

use rawtherapee, its the quickest and have more tweaks available then DCU5.
I prefer DNG with rt.

Thank you for the suggestion! I will get my hands on rawtherapee and give it a spin.

Cheers!

---------- Post added 07-13-17 at 06:44 PM ----------

Originally posted by Pixelhdr

When I do use pixel shift, which is quite often, I tend to be very selective. That means I usually only have a few files to process. I have no problem using PDCU and I only use PDCU to process the raw files into TIFFs which are then imported into LR for additional adjustments.

I think I can get onboard with this idea too

But I do have a query. From what I understand, every pixel in a 16bit TIFF file contains full RGB information, traditionally acquired using a demosaicing algorithm, which is specific to the software being used for TIFF conversion. However since P.S. images on the Pentax actually capture RGB information for each pixel, it should theoretically eliminate the need for demosaicing/guessing the colour information on each pixel. So my query is, does converting to TIFF using PDCU result in any change, degradation or unwanted artifacts in the image, or does LR complicate it by reading it 'incorrectly' so to speak?

**Rondec** · 07-14-2017, 03:29 AM

I use Raw Therapee as well. I don't bother turning on motion control as the software doesn't need it. I open the files in RT and look at them with pixel shift on and off -- in addition, RT allows you to see the mask and where the pixel shift helps and where it isn't being used. There are plenty of times where I can see it is pointless to use it and I just use the best of the four individual files in the RAW image and just process that.

Squirrel Mafia has a thread devoted to Raw Therapee and has some helpful presets that he has uploaded to it that would probably be helpful.

Good luck!

stevebrot · 07-14-2017, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by heckflosse

Adobe has more than 15,000 employees worldwide. Why are they not able to implement Pentax PixelShift with motion detection themselve or at least buy a license of the implementations in PDCU or RawTherapee?

Perhaps a license is not being offered? (Ricoh/Pentax is rather famous for being very close regarding tech.) More likely is that Adobe sees very little ROI in fully supporting the PS feature.

Steve

07-13-2017, 06:12 AM	#1
VJEphoto New Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 14	Pixel Shift PEF vs DNG image processing workflow info needed Greetings everyone! As very few of you may know, I've recently acquired a new K1 with a couple of macro lenses for food photography. I am happy with the results I'm seeing so far (no doubt it is an upgrade over my APS-C Nikon), but I've been wanting to work more with pixel shift (P.S.) images - the reason I chose the K1 against the Nikon D810. What I want to ask is - how are fellow K1 owners processing their P.S. images? Are you shooting PEF or DNG? Which software do you use and which do you think works best with P.S. files? I know there area few articles on the web illustrating people's workflow, however all the info is from 2016. Pentax and the different software companies have both released several updates to their camera firmware and their editing programs respectively this year. I find Digital Camera Utility 5 to be a painfully frustrating software to use. It has crashed on me several times. So I've resorted to either shooting DNG, or converting my PEFs to DNG via Adobe DNG Converter to use in Lightroom/ Photoshop. However I've not yet tested for P.S. files this way. It would be very appreciated if any of you could help me understand what is the best and most user-friendly way to go about processing P.S. files as of July 2017. Many thanks in advance!

07-13-2017, 06:38 PM	#13
VJEphoto New Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by Franc use rawtherapee, its the quickest and have more tweaks available then DCU5. I prefer DNG with rt. Thank you for the suggestion! I will get my hands on rawtherapee and give it a spin. Cheers! ---------- Post added 07-13-17 at 06:44 PM ---------- Originally posted by Pixelhdr When I do use pixel shift, which is quite often, I tend to be very selective. That means I usually only have a few files to process. I have no problem using PDCU and I only use PDCU to process the raw files into TIFFs which are then imported into LR for additional adjustments. I think I can get onboard with this idea too But I do have a query. From what I understand, every pixel in a 16bit TIFF file contains full RGB information, traditionally acquired using a demosaicing algorithm, which is specific to the software being used for TIFF conversion. However since P.S. images on the Pentax actually capture RGB information for each pixel, it should theoretically eliminate the need for demosaicing/guessing the colour information on each pixel. So my query is, does converting to TIFF using PDCU result in any change, degradation or unwanted artifacts in the image, or does LR complicate it by reading it 'incorrectly' so to speak? Last edited by VJEphoto; 07-13-2017 at 07:57 PM.

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07-13-2017, 07:24 AM	#2
12345 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 520	I don't have a camera that shoots PS photos, but I just saw recently that the free RAW processing software RawTherapee officially supports Pentax Pixel Shift photos. I'm sure some of the other members here can tell you more about it.

07-13-2017, 07:28 AM	#3
Ascencio Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 105	I haven't experienced any difference with PEF and DNG regarding pixel shift. I can only suggest setting motion control to off when not using Pentax software. I recently started using capture one pro and it is by far the fastest and most stable software out there. In lightroom i went back to PEF files because it appears to me that lightroom changes the appearance of DNG files more than PEF.

07-13-2017, 07:51 AM	#4
VJEphoto New Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 14 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ascencio I haven't experienced any difference with PEF and DNG regarding pixel shift. I can only suggest setting motion control to off when not using Pentax software. I recently started using capture one pro and it is by far the fastest and most stable software out there. In lightroom i went back to PEF files because it appears to me that lightroom changes the appearance of DNG files more than PEF. Ok that's great to know. Now only if my Camera Raw could start reading PEF files. Though that is an issue on my side as I'm using older versions of Adobe software.

07-13-2017, 08:26 AM	#5
Franc Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Hoevelaken Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,212	use rawtherapee, its the quickest and have more tweaks available then DCU5. I prefer DNG with rt.

07-13-2017, 09:14 AM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	The two file types are fully data equivalent. Any difference in processing workflow (PEF vs DNG) would depend on tool support. Steve

07-13-2017, 09:17 AM	#7
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by VJEphoto Ok that's great to know. Now only if my Camera Raw could start reading PEF files. Though that is an issue on my side as I'm using older versions of Adobe software. Welcome to the Adobe business model. Even with DNG, your older version will not support pixel-shift and even with a newer version the pixel-shift support is poor. Steve

07-13-2017, 10:22 AM	#8
heckflosse Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 171	Originally posted by Ascencio I can only suggest setting motion control to off when not using Pentax software. For RawTherapee (which is not a Pentax software) there is no difference whether motion control is set to on or off in camera when shooting PS.

07-13-2017, 10:33 AM	#9
Pixelhdr Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 90	When I do use pixel shift, which is quite often, I tend to be very selective. That means I usually only have a few files to process. I have no problem using PDCU and I only use PDCU to process the raw files into TIFFs which are then imported into LR for additional adjustments.

07-13-2017, 11:08 AM	#10
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by Pixelhdr I have no problem using PDCU and I only use PDCU to process the raw files into TIFFs which are then imported into LR for additional adjustments. I think this is a good method whenever you are using more than one software. You do the first steps, like lens profile correction, PS stuff, CA correction, maybe even noise reduction and things like cloning out dust spots in the first software, then export as 16 bit tiff (usually its best to use tiff without compression, as some software can't open compressed tiff files), and then open that tiff in the next software. I don't have a PS camera, but that's what I do when using plugins or going between LR and RawTherapee and so on. RawTherapee is pretty nice, even though its a bit more complicated to use than LR.

07-13-2017, 12:36 PM	#11
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,833	Originally posted by Na Horuk I think this is a good method whenever you are using more than one software. You do the first steps, like lens profile correction, PS stuff, CA correction, maybe even noise reduction and things like cloning out dust spots in the first software, then export as 16 bit tiff (usually its best to use tiff without compression, as some software can't open compressed tiff files), and then open that tiff in the next software. I don't have a PS camera, but that's what I do when using plugins or going between LR and RawTherapee and so on. RawTherapee is pretty nice, even though its a bit more complicated to use than LR. Having to use other software before LR greatly complicates library management. My usual workflow (and the workflow for the vast majority of LR users) is to import from camera into LR, then process. I want LR metadata to guide me to the photos that need to be processed for pixelshift. If I have a 100 photos on my card and only 10 use pixelshift, I don't want to load all 100 into PDCU, process 10, then repeat loading the 90 unprocessed ones into LR for processing. It's much cleaner to put all 100 into LR, then pass the 10 to PDCU. Oh, how I wish PDCU worked as a LR plug-in...

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07-13-2017, 01:05 PM	#12
heckflosse Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 171	Adobe has more than 15,000 employees worldwide. Why are they not able to implement Pentax PixelShift with motion detection themselve or at least buy a license of the implementations in PDCU or RawTherapee?

07-14-2017, 03:29 AM	#14
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	I use Raw Therapee as well. I don't bother turning on motion control as the software doesn't need it. I open the files in RT and look at them with pixel shift on and off -- in addition, RT allows you to see the mask and where the pixel shift helps and where it isn't being used. There are plenty of times where I can see it is pointless to use it and I just use the best of the four individual files in the RAW image and just process that. Squirrel Mafia has a thread devoted to Raw Therapee and has some helpful presets that he has uploaded to it that would probably be helpful. Good luck!

07-14-2017, 10:35 AM	#15
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by heckflosse Adobe has more than 15,000 employees worldwide. Why are they not able to implement Pentax PixelShift with motion detection themselve or at least buy a license of the implementations in PDCU or RawTherapee? Perhaps a license is not being offered? (Ricoh/Pentax is rather famous for being very close regarding tech.) More likely is that Adobe sees very little ROI in fully supporting the PS feature. Steve