[biz-engineer]

Sometimes, shutter shock is bugging me. With the copy of K1 I have (one of the early K1 batches), depending on the lens and shutter speed (1/30 to 1/200), I get significantly blurred images to the point that it's like having a 16Mpixels or less camera, in that case a crop sensor camera would deliver same or better image quality. EFCS is effective to work around that problem, but this mode is only available in Live View... As I recall, the K5 have a mixed mode so that one could, for example, use live view and have autofocus done with the phase detect AF sensor.

For the time being, the solution I've found to use the OVF and avoid blurry images is to use the TAv drive mode, with shutter speed fixed at 1/200 sec. in order to avoid the 1/20 - 1/200 range. But that lead to unnecessary higher ISO which render the full frame vs apsc things not so much of a benefit.

Would there be a chance that Ricoh deliver a firmware update that makes possible to enable EFCS automatically when shutter speeds are between 1/15 and 1/200 (with OVF, the electronic front curtain would open delayed by a 1/4th sec. after the mechanical shutter is open), with or without using live view?

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Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-17-2017 at 10:30 PM.

[stevebrot]

As I recall, the K5 have a mixed mode so that one could, for example, use live view and have autofocus done with the phase detect AF sensor.

Not as an official feature.

Edit: I was wrong! Page 166 of the K-5 user manual describes how it is done. It should be noted that the mirror drops to provide the image to the PDAF sensor and then flips back up. Since mirror and shutter are closely coupled on the K-5, I believe that the shutter would have to close and reopen for this to work as well.

Any Pentax dSLR having live view may be focused using PDAF and using that plane of focus for a live view exposure after disabling AF.

Would there be a chance that Ricoh Imaging deliver a firmware update that make possible to enable EFCS automatically when shutter speeds are between 1/15 and 1/200, with or without using live view?

To do EFCS, the first curtain must be open at invocation. Such a feature would introduce significant shutter lag (>1s?) if the intent was to avoid vibration/harmonics due to first curtain shutter bounce and would not be able to avoid second curtain inertial pull (requires full-on electronic shutter).


Steve

[biz-engineer]

Such a feature would introduce significant shutter lag (>1s?)

Yes, there would be a lag. From what I can see when using pixel shift (non live view mode), the lag is fairly short, significantly shorter than 1 second.

[stevebrot]

Yes, there would be a lag. From what I can see when using pixel shift (non live view mode), the lag is fairly short, significantly shorter than 1 second.

I meant lag to let whatever is causing your shake to dissipate. I have not been following the issue, but do remember various theories with at least one tied to second curtain release.


Steve

[Adam]

Yes, there would be a lag. From what I can see when using pixel shift (non live view mode), the lag is fairly short, significantly shorter than 1 second.

I believe the KP has the option to do EFCS via OVF. Haven't tested the lag, though.

As for getting it in the K-1 via firmware, it would be awesome but I suspect there might be technical limitations.

[pschlute]

I have experienced the "shutter-shock" in the speed range you mention, but only with the camera on a tripod with a long lens. If I keep the shutter speed up to the inverse of the FL I dont see the problem when using OVF. The ES in LV is a good workaround for me if I want a lower shutter speed.

Are you saying you see the shutter shock when hand-holding too ? If so what lens ?

[Snakeisthestuff]

I have experienced the "shutter-shock" in the speed range you mention, but only with the camera on a tripod with a long lens. If I keep the shutter speed up to the inverse of the FL I dont see the problem when using OVF. The ES in LV is a good workaround for me if I want a lower shutter speed.

Are you saying you see the shutter shock when hand-holding too ? If so what lens ?

As a side note:
Even ES has its drawbacks.
Be careful when using long Telelenses with "low" shutter speeds (not as low as one would think sometimes) when using handheld or on Tripod in case it is very windy.

You might see vertical lines who are not vertical anymore (jelly-effect).

It happened to me somtimes when I was not able to detect it immediately on the camera screen, as it was very minor.

In such cases I always recommend an backup shot without ES and SR on.

[biz-engineer]

Are you saying you see the shutter shock when hand-holding too ? If so what lens ?

With DFA28-105 and DFA24-70 but to a lesser extent.

---------- Post added 18-08-17 at 18:38 ----------

I believe the KP has the option to do EFCS via OVF.

Yes, and that would be a good thing to have that too in the K1.

[pschlute]

With DFA28-105 and DFA24-70 but to a lesser extent.

Can you post some examples because I use the K1 + DFA 24-70 and dont see it at all handheld.

[jup]

I believe the KP has the option to do EFCS via OVF. Haven't tested the lag, though.

KP has full on electronic shutter in OVF mode and from my quick and dirty tests in introduces something like ~0.1s lag. The manual is not very detailed though so I honestly don't know how much it would help with the blur since mirror still has to go up. In all frankness, while I have KP, I am not really sure what are advantages of using ES in OVF except for achieving shorter times compared to mechanical shutter. Any ideas? LV is different question entirely, there you have the benefit of silent shutter.

That said, since this is available on KP, I wouldn't rule out making it into K-1 firmware sometime in future. Although scan time of full frame sensor may be even longer.

Even ES has its drawbacks.
Be careful when using long Telelenses with "low" shutter speeds (not as low as one would think sometimes) when using handheld or on Tripod in case it is very windy.

You might see vertical lines who are not vertical anymore (jelly-effect).

Not only that. My first ES pictures happened to be under fluorescent/LED lightning and I got such a nice banding that I almost returned my camera as broken. ;-)

[Adam]

KP has full on electronic shutter in OVF mode and from my quick and dirty tests in introduces something like ~0.1s lag. The manual is not very detailed though so I honestly don't know how much it would help with the blur since mirror still has to go up. In all frankness, while I have KP, I am not really sure what are advantages of using ES in OVF except for achieving shorter times compared to mechanical shutter. Any ideas? LV is different question entirely, there you have the benefit of silent shutter.

Isn't it mainly there to facilitate the 1/24000s shutter speed?

[jup]

Isn't it mainly there to facilitate the 1/24000s shutter speed?

You're probably right. It's just that I can set shutter speed to any value between 30s and 1/24000s with ES enabled, so I was wondering if there's any reason to use it for slower shutter speeds.

[dfp771]

Sometimes, shutter shock is bugging me. With the copy of K1 I have (one of the early K1 batches), depending on the lens and shutter speed (1/30 to 1/200), I get significantly blurred images to the point that it's like having a 16Mpixels or less camera, in that case a crop sensor camera would deliver same or better image quality. EFCS is effective to work around that problem, but this mode is only available in Live View... As I recall, the K5 have a mixed mode so that one could, for example, use live view and have autofocus done with the phase detect AF sensor.

For the time being, the solution I've found to use the OVF and avoid blurry images is to use the TAv drive mode, with shutter speed fixed at 1/200 sec. in order to avoid the 1/20 - 1/200 range. But that lead to unnecessary higher ISO which render the full frame vs apsc things not so much of a benefit.

Would there be a chance that Ricoh deliver a firmware update that makes possible to enable EFCS automatically when shutter speeds are between 1/15 and 1/200 (with OVF, the electronic front curtain would open delayed by a 1/4th sec. after the mechanical shutter is open), with or without using live view?

I haven't seen your issue with my K-1, I've used it deliberately at below sync speeds when using Hi-sync with my cactus V6 II triggers and my Elinchrom ELB400 HSS flash head to avoid banding (banding sometimes occurs at around the sync speed (1/200) second. I get rock solid, super sharp images in Tav mode using those shutter speeds also.

[biz-engineer]

I haven't seen your issue with my K-1, I've used it deliberately at below sync speeds when using Hi-sync with my cactus V6 II triggers and my Elinchrom ELB400 HSS flash head to avoid banding (banding sometimes occurs at around the sync speed (1/200) second. I get rock solid, super sharp images in Tav mode using those shutter speeds also.

Sure, you won't see that with a flash because the duration of the flash pulse , depending on the power, is between 1/5000 and 1/1000, so, even if the shutter speed is 1/100, we don't see any impact of shutter shock.

[Adam]

You're probably right. It's just that I can set shutter speed to any value between 30s and 1/24000s with ES enabled, so I was wondering if there's any reason to use it for slower shutter speeds.

On the KP I don't think so, since mirror shock isn't an issue.