[eccs19]

Is using live view same as electronic shutter? I would have thought so, except that in the menu there is an option to turn off LV Electronic Shutter, so I find this a little confusing. I figured LV would automatically have the shutter out of the way, hence my confusion.

Thanks.

[Adam]

Is using live view same as electronic shutter? I would have thought so, except that in the menu there is an option to turn off LV Electronic Shutter, so I find this a little confusing. I figured LV would automatically have the shutter out of the way, hence my confusion.

Thanks.

You're confusing the mirror with the shutter. By default, the mechanical shutter is still used in live view.

[jbinpg]

Live View removes the mirror from the optical path to the sensor . The electronic shutter mode also opens the mechanical shutter before exposure.

[gerardbaron]

What are the conditions to be able to use ES.
I got it once and wasn’t able to have it another day.
Thanks for your help

[pschlute]

In LV the mirror is up and the leading curtain shutter is open.

If you do not enable ES , then when you press the shutter the leading curtain closes, then opens to start the exposure. Second curtain ends the exposure.

If you do enable ES, when you press the shutter, the camera enables the sensor to start recording the image (exposure). The second curtain ends the exposure.

---------- Post added 02-06-18 at 07:08 AM ----------

What are the conditions to be able to use ES.
I got it once and wasn’t able to have it another day.
Thanks for your help

Continuous exposure mode for one will disable ES, as will HDR mode.

[mcgregni]

That's very interesting Peter. I have long wondered about something ..... If the sensor is capable of switching its recording on and off so precisely for every exposure time value, I can't really understand why the mechanical shutter is needed at all, even for viewfinder operations.

[clackers]

That's very interesting Peter. I have long wondered about something ..... If the sensor is capable of switching its recording on and off so precisely for every exposure time value, I can't really understand why the mechanical shutter is needed at all, even for viewfinder operations.

A sensor is not capable of switching its recording off in time. The pixels decay in response.

It's a problem with all electronic shutters. AFAIK, only when you pay for the Sony A9 do you start to get good mitigation of the problem.

[mcgregni]

Ok, thanks. I see I'm going to have to start reading up on this.... It's one of those things that can keep you awake at night! But in electronic shutter mode the sensor must be controlling the EV by "switching it's recording on and off ", as the mechanical shutter is disengaged and open .... ?

Although I see above that Peter said it was the 2nd curtain closing that ended the exposure, in ES,mode..... That'd obviously why you can get very short times like 1/20,000th as it's only limited by the speed of the closing curtain, not the speed of two moving curtains.

[pschlute]

Although I see above that Peter said it was the 2nd curtain closing that ended the exposure, in ES,mode

That's right Nigel. The second curtain ends the exposure in both capture modes.

But if you want something else to keep you awake, ponder this: With normal-two curtain shutter mode the exposure to the sensor will always be even as the two curtains travel at the same speed, so every bit of the sensor gets the same exposure. Now with ES there is no first curtain. So the second curtain must allow more exposure to hit the part of the sensor at the end of its travel than at the beginning by dint of simple physics (Imagine closing a curtain on a window at home). So does this must mean that in ES mode the sensor is "energised" unevenly to start actual capture to compensate for this ?

[mcgregni]

Oh no! The rings under my eyes are getting blacker even thinking about it ......

[Gimbal]

That's right Nigel. The second curtain ends the exposure in both capture modes.

But if you want something else to keep you awake, ponder this: With normal-two curtain shutter mode the exposure to the sensor will always be even as the two curtains travel at the same speed, so every bit of the sensor gets the same exposure. Now with ES there is no first curtain. So the second curtain must allow more exposure to hit the part of the sensor at the end of its travel than at the beginning by dint of simple physics (Imagine closing a curtain on a window at home). So does this must mean that in ES mode the sensor is "energised" unevenly to start actual capture to compensate for this ?

I’m not entirely convinced that the second curtain is used to end the exposure. I’ve seen it stated before, but were does that info come from?

I mean pixelshift takes four exposures and we can be pretty sure the first three are done without any mechanical shutter at all. And I bet the last shot in the sequence also is done without the shutter, even if the shutter cycles at the end of the pixelshift sequence.

Maybe they just cycles the shutter as a feedback thing indicating end of exposure?

[Rondec]

I think to use the electronic shutter with live view you have to have it set with that option in the menu and have your shutter set to single shot mode. Of note is that there is a pause after you hit the shutter button when using the electronic shutter that there isn't if you have it set to use the mechanical shutter.

As far as I know, the pixel shift does use the electronic shutter for all four exposures (it certainly does for the first three). Certainly I have never seen shutter shake with pixel shift which I would think you would see occasionally if you used a mechanical shutter for at least one of the exposures.

[eccs19]

In LV the mirror is up and the leading curtain shutter is open.

If you do not enable ES , then when you press the shutter the leading curtain closes, then opens to start the exposure. Second curtain ends the exposure.

If you do enable ES, when you press the shutter, the camera enables the sensor to start recording the image (exposure). The second curtain ends the exposure.[COLOR="Silver"]

OK. This basically explains it. I knew the mirror moved out of the way, that was obvious to me, but the live view is what confused me as I figured the shutter itself had to be opened so the sensor would give you the live view image, just wasn't sure how this all worked together. So more or less they sort of work the same, just the leading curtain isn't involved in the ES mode. Thanks, exactly what I was looking for.

---------- Post added 02-06-2018 at 09:31 AM ----------

What are the conditions to be able to use ES.
I got it once and wasn’t able to have it another day.
Thanks for your help

I believe that when using ES, the flash won't work. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[pschlute]

I’m not entirely convinced that the second curtain is used to end the exposure. I’ve seen it stated before, but were does that info come from?

That is an interesting point. I just assumed the second curtain ended the exposure because you can clearly hear it travel and then open up again.

[GUB]

Does anyone know what the ES scan speed is in the K1? I know in the Q it was 1/30sec but I suspect the K1 is even slower. This was with a 135mm - he was just strolling past.