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05-17-2018, 11:17 AM - 4 Likes   #391
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Oh gosh...how many of you are really shooting Olympic games for an agency with a Pentax? You need either super fast WLAN of LAN on-site to get the stuff to a hub which handles all the traffic forward. Before that you need to actually capture the sportsman doing their stuff. Good luck.
Another gratuitous negative comment about Pentax. Remind us why you are here.

You made a comment about why professional artists value 'raw'.
I responded with a comment about some professionals valuing JPEG.
One standard is just as good as the other - the world does not revolve around your use case, or any use case. There should be room here for all. If Pentax doesn't meet your standards, this would be a great time for you to move over to the Sony forum.

05-17-2018, 11:22 AM - 2 Likes   #392
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ian Stuart Forsyth Quote
I have been looking at some of the raw files in FRV and it look like there is some smoothing being done in.
If we look in the green channel and look at the dust found on the board you can see what look like grain but I it is dust on the surface of the board
If we look at the K1m2 shot at iso 100 you can see this dust


While with the K1 at iso you can see some noise introduced but not very much and with the K1m2 @ iso 800 you can see the smoothing

Just to remind people this is look at the raw files without NR other than what is done in camera

Here is the K1m2 iso 100 to show the dust ( again in a raw viewer)
Interesting images but there's another explanation for the missing dust.

The histogram for the 100 ISO image shows both a slightly boosted exposure and a shadow-enhancing tone curve that make the dust much more visible. The dust is there in the 800 ISO image.
05-17-2018, 11:38 AM - 1 Like   #393
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tan68 Quote
I have since asked Bill Claff about this. He tolerated the slight highjack of his thread and replied about differences in color filter array. So I don't mangle his reply, see here : Help Sought Collecting Further PEFs for K-1 II Analysis at PhotonsToPhotos: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

He notes it is not possible to draw generalizations so I take this to mean :
- The CFA on the K-1 II may be no different than that on tested K-1
- But variation and some other variables may lead to the less pleasing K-1 II result.
DR of the K-1 II seems better than of the K-1:
Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting
PhotonsToPhotos published their sensor test results for the Pentax K-1 Mark II, KP and K-S1 DSLR camera | Pentax Rumors
05-17-2018, 12:16 PM   #394
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
Interesting images but there's another explanation for the missing dust.

The histogram for the 100 ISO image shows both a slightly boosted exposure and a shadow-enhancing tone curve that make the dust much more visible. The dust is there in the 800 ISO image.
One should always check the processing. Defaults vary by ISO and by camera model; and then there are user mistakes like DPR forgetting to apply sharpening to the K-1 II's initial JPEG samples.

05-17-2018, 04:32 PM   #395
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It isn't clear from the portion of my post you have quoted that my post is about a color shift in the K-1 II DPR DR widget thing. At the link to the ZDPR thread, this is clear.. I would have thought anyone looking at the DPR widget would know what I meant by 'less tolerant'; the color shift is obvious! Bill is responding with some information that will maybe help explain the shift..

I think the K-1 II looks good and when I wrote in a post in this thread a page or two back that the comparisons between the two versions of K-1 are neck and neck, I meant detail. Obviously, there is a difference in apparent noise and it looks like about a stop to me...

Last edited by Tan68; 05-17-2018 at 04:38 PM.
05-17-2018, 06:25 PM   #396
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I have a whole collection of inexpensive Pentax lenses, mostly used, many FF acquired for just $100 each. You just can't have that for Sony . Sure, you can mount Pentax lenses on a Sony body, but you will lose autofocus and auto-exposure, as well as EXIF lens data. Kind of pointless to own a DSLR if every lens has those limitations.
There are AF adapters for many mounts for $$$ony bodies,so far supporting lenses that weigh as much as 2.8kg(Nikon 400mm).TechartPro and Fotodiox are 2 that do them.

Its recommended for glass up to 700g but where the lens is supported by a tri/monopod extra weight can work.
05-17-2018, 08:25 PM - 1 Like   #397
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QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
The histogram for the 100 ISO image shows both a slightly boosted exposure and a shadow-enhancing tone curve that make the dust much more visible. The dust is there in the 800 ISO image.
I agree that the iso 100 shot has a larger exposure (having a much lager exposure is what I want) it was only to be used as a baseline to see what is real detail and then compare it to the iso 800 shot of k1 and mk2 cameras and to do this I want as much signal. This was done so that we can see what NR has done to the green channel and the detail that remained, with the baseline of the larger exposure when compared to the green channel of the k1 at iso 800 you can see that the noise introduced by the K1 was reather low. If you look at the green channel you can see that dust looks as it should as if something is sitting on the board and when I talking about dust I am referring to the thicker layer that has accumulated that looks as a layer of dust and not the tiny particles.

Now if we go back to the iso 100 you can see it looks as accumulated dust, the k1 iso 800 you still see this layer but with the k1m2 iso that dust now looks as if it was pressed into the board and now has the appears as if it was part of the board now.

The screen grabs are from a raw viewer where the target output lightness was set to equal for the three images if you would like I can redo the illustration with histograms.

---------- Post added 05-17-2018 at 08:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
The K-1MKII crop is doing a way better job maintaining what is actually there.
It depends on what you think is actually there and the NR has done to the image
take these 2 images and what one think is there and what is actually there. While one image looks to be very noisy while the other is cleaner


Again both images are being viewed in a raw viewer with only the green channel being shown. Take a guess as to which is more accurately represent what is found in the green channel of the scene and what is not really there? here a hint something is being removed in one of the images.


Last edited by Ian Stuart Forsyth; 05-17-2018 at 08:45 PM.
05-18-2018, 12:57 AM - 1 Like   #398
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Hello,





QuoteOriginally posted by awscreo Quote
But you don't even own a K-1 body, what do you know about pixel shift implementation in that particular product?



True that, I only know from the pictures others (like you) post, and the little hours I played with a K1 (when it was launched) . All I can say, it ain' t good marketing for the technology (and this is without a single bit of resentment or hatred ) .






QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Fun stuff.

I would just say that for still photography, particularly landscape and architecture, Pentax cameras do really well.



True! Stills, dead things. Not all are searching just that in a camera. To take a camera and make it exclusively for one type of shooting (with other small branches coming from it) is bad Engineering.






QuoteOriginally posted by teiki arii Quote
Yes of course, I lost shots because there was not IBIS in Canon EOS 5D/5DMKII/6D I had. Shooting at 1/8s with a Canon (22Mp) without IBIS is doomed to fail, compared to Pentax K-1 36Mp with IBIS, for sure, no doubt! I can take a 1/8s picture without IBIS with my Leica R6: Canon nor Nikon can do it! I work with Leica-R lenses, so I am free of any brands... If Sony gives me camera enough to switch, I switch as I did from Nikon to Canon to Pentax... I am not subject to any brand, so I think I am trustable...

Yes, you are right, it's a niche, but it's my concern anyway.

Still wrong, RawTherapee is a fantastic tool to work with Pixel Shift mode and useful, no doubt... Besides, I use it for scanning my negatives, It's better than Imacon...



I was referring to the improvement of the Pentax IBIS, not lack of it. You search for IBIS cause you know what effects have the lacking of it. But I am talking about functions that attract amateur, hobbyist or semi- pro shooters (none of them ever mentioned to me they wanted IBIS; they were satisfied with Lens stabilization) .



Not all of us like to get a software that is not so common. Most use LR and PS. Adapt to what' s more common, don' t be a hipster (this is as far as company goes- not you personally) .








QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
Aren't you a Sony user posting at a Pentax Forum to bash Pentax cameras and users?

It is clear you have no credibility from your own standards not to "hate/discredit people for having other camera brands".



No. I am a guy that owns now two brands of cameras. Stop being a fanboy. Improvement can' t be done only by praising and behind whipping. I don' t discredit anyone for shooting anything (even a pinhole) , if the photos are good. But as far as technology goes, stop praising Pentax for that holy 1 percent of a then 2 year old sensor. Ask for more from this camera brand, cause you (fanboys, or just loyal for whatever reason to the brand) , can' t support it financially. You still use old lenses, thus you don' t buy new ones, you buy maybe one body, and that' s it. They need new clients, they need cash intake and it comes from what they have to offer.







QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The top end of the market (let's say $2000 plus) is very nasty and competitive now, Urssu.

It's the only way the camera manufacturers can make money with consumers turning to phones.

You can say little Pentax was not involved, but it's always had the 645 and in the last couple of years a full frame product too.

In the case of DPR's staff writers, they can't bash the people who spend the most on marketing (and inviting them to events and functions), they try to prove they're a hard-hitting journo by doing it to a minor brand.

Being rung up on Monday morning by a Ricoh exec with a complaint doesn't compare to the consequences of an angry Sony or Nikon PR person on the phone.

This also happens in car reviews, film reviews, etc etc. If you're well-connected, you can get a great ride from the media.



It may be competitive, but I tell you what. I prefer waiting for the A7R Mk 3 to come, to buy a Mk 2 cheaper than a K1 Mk1. I tested them both (k1 and A7Rii) , and although I am a Pentax user, and as I always stated, I like them cause they fine tuned so many features, they just seem obsolete compared to others, in what I was searching for. But it' s OK, cause not all the clients search for that one specific thing (which they don' t seem to understand, since they push a camera for one type of shooting only) . But it' s their management decision. The market will prove them right or wrong.


645, they will lose that slice of market as well. Look what Hassy brought, look at Fuji. People drool for those cameras, and started pre- ordering them like crazy.



The hell with the reviews. People using Nikon liked my K5 by testing it. Not from what they' ve read. When people buy cameras, they buy them by asking at least one guy that has one (or a few) . For starters, I would recommend Pentax. But don' t buy anything new, as you' ll take a hit in the resale.







All the best!
05-18-2018, 01:32 AM   #399
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Oh gosh...how many of you are really shooting Olympic games for an agency with a Pentax? You need either super fast WLAN of LAN on-site to get the stuff to a hub which handles all the traffic forward. Before that you need to actually capture the sportsman doing their stuff. Good luck.
While I don't shoot in that setting, there are USB OTG adapters you can use to connect a very compact SD card reader to a smartphone, which can in turn upload at very fast WLAN speed. This does not need to be done from the camera directly, and when it is attempted, is generally done badly.

---------- Post added 05-18-18 at 01:37 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
There are AF adapters for many mounts for $$$ony bodies,so far supporting lenses that weigh as much as 2.8kg(Nikon 400mm).TechartPro and Fotodiox are 2 that do them.

Its recommended for glass up to 700g but where the lens is supported by a tri/monopod extra weight can work.
Can you point out to me which models support autofocus with K mount lens on Sony bodies ? I couldn't find them.
05-18-2018, 02:25 AM - 1 Like   #400
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
Hello,










True that, I only know from the pictures others (like you) post, and the little hours I played with a K1 (when it was launched) . All I can say, it ain' t good marketing for the technology (and this is without a single bit of resentment or hatred ) .











True! Stills, dead things. Not all are searching just that in a camera. To take a camera and make it exclusively for one type of shooting (with other small branches coming from it) is bad Engineering.











I was referring to the improvement of the Pentax IBIS, not lack of it. You search for IBIS cause you know what effects have the lacking of it. But I am talking about functions that attract amateur, hobbyist or semi- pro shooters (none of them ever mentioned to me they wanted IBIS; they were satisfied with Lens stabilization) .



Not all of us like to get a software that is not so common. Most use LR and PS. Adapt to what' s more common, don' t be a hipster (this is as far as company goes- not you personally) .













No. I am a guy that owns now two brands of cameras. Stop being a fanboy. Improvement can' t be done only by praising and behind whipping. I don' t discredit anyone for shooting anything (even a pinhole) , if the photos are good. But as far as technology goes, stop praising Pentax for that holy 1 percent of a then 2 year old sensor. Ask for more from this camera brand, cause you (fanboys, or just loyal for whatever reason to the brand) , can' t support it financially. You still use old lenses, thus you don' t buy new ones, you buy maybe one body, and that' s it. They need new clients, they need cash intake and it comes from what they have to offer.












It may be competitive, but I tell you what. I prefer waiting for the A7R Mk 3 to come, to buy a Mk 2 cheaper than a K1 Mk1. I tested them both (k1 and A7Rii) , and although I am a Pentax user, and as I always stated, I like them cause they fine tuned so many features, they just seem obsolete compared to others, in what I was searching for. But it' s OK, cause not all the clients search for that one specific thing (which they don' t seem to understand, since they push a camera for one type of shooting only) . But it' s their management decision. The market will prove them right or wrong.


645, they will lose that slice of market as well. Look what Hassy brought, look at Fuji. People drool for those cameras, and started pre- ordering them like crazy.



The hell with the reviews. People using Nikon liked my K5 by testing it. Not from what they' ve read. When people buy cameras, they buy them by asking at least one guy that has one (or a few) . For starters, I would recommend Pentax. But don' t buy anything new, as you' ll take a hit in the resale.







All the best!
Who said anything about only taking pictures of still things? You just said that pixel shift was useless in the real world and I disagreed.

You can take photos of whatever your skill as a photographer allows you to take photos of with Pentax gear, same as with any other brand. There is nothing that limits you to landscapes and macro.
05-18-2018, 02:34 AM   #401
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
It may be competitive, but I tell you what. I prefer waiting for the A7R Mk 3 to come, to buy a Mk 2 cheaper than a K1 Mk1. I tested them both (k1 and A7Rii) , and although I am a Pentax user, and as I always stated, I like them cause they fine tuned so many features, they just seem obsolete compared to others, in what I was searching for.
Well, Nicolae, after all that, I looked at your 500px feed and for what you spent, there's nothing there yet you couldn't have taken with a K-1, to be honest. And I find that to be true of nearly all brand swappers of all kinds - really says more about the person than their hardware, I think.

But as I've said before, you're an interesting photographer, and I'm sure you'll add to those three pictures.

You've a right to spend your money in any way you like, as with the rest of us.


QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
All the best!
And you too, of course.

Last edited by clackers; 05-18-2018 at 05:29 AM.
05-18-2018, 02:45 AM - 2 Likes   #402
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
True! Stills, dead things. Not all are searching just that in a camera. To take a camera and make it exclusively for one type of shooting (with other small branches coming from it) is bad Engineering.
Who told you that?

QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
I was referring to the improvement of the Pentax IBIS, not lack of it. You search for IBIS cause you know what effects have the lacking of it. But I am talking about functions that attract amateur, hobbyist or semi- pro shooters (none of them ever mentioned to me they wanted IBIS; they were satisfied with Lens stabilization) .
I am an amateur and I like IBIS in the only OVF FF camera on the market! I forgot to mention you I wanted IBIS.. Please, put me on your list...

QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
Not all of us like to get a software that is not so common. Most use LR and PS. Adapt to what' s more common, don' t be a hipster (this is as far as company goes- not you personally) .
So we should do as most of people do, like sheeps...

QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
No. I am a guy that owns now two brands of cameras. Stop being a fanboy. Improvement can' t be done only by praising and behind whipping. I don' t discredit anyone for shooting anything (even a pinhole) , if the photos are good. But as far as technology goes, stop praising Pentax for that holy 1 percent of a then 2 year old sensor. Ask for more from this camera brand, cause you (fanboys, or just loyal for whatever reason to the brand) , can' t support it financially.
So, after a two years "old" sensor, you stop shooting pictures and throw your gear away for what marketing told you?

QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
You still use old lenses, thus you don' t buy new ones, you buy maybe one body, and that' s it. They need new clients, they need cash intake and it comes from what they have to offer.
Yes I do, but I am very glad with my old ones, very small with great quality. That's not any more in the air to make excellent small versatile lenses...

QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
It may be competitive, but I tell you what. I prefer waiting for the A7R Mk 3 to come, to buy a Mk 2 cheaper than a K1 Mk1. I tested them both (k1 and A7Rii) , and although I am a Pentax user, and as I always stated, I like them cause they fine tuned so many features, they just seem obsolete compared to others, in what I was searching for. But it' s OK, cause not all the clients search for that one specific thing (which they don' t seem to understand, since they push a camera for one type of shooting only) . But it' s their management decision. The market will prove them right or wrong.
A7R MKIII is a retina killer and nobody speaks about it.. Be curious, go and get informations about that... Obsolete? Yes it is for some peolpe who need to buy a camera every two years while forgetting taking photos...

QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
645, they will lose that slice of market as well. Look what Hassy brought, look at Fuji. People drool for those cameras, and started pre- ordering them like crazy.
Consuming Society, that is not a new concept.

QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
The hell with the reviews. People using Nikon liked my K5 by testing it. Not from what they' ve read. When people buy cameras, they buy them by asking at least one guy that has one (or a few) . For starters, I would recommend Pentax. But don' t buy anything new, as you' ll take a hit in the resale.
No, some people buy according to their needs, not because their neighbour has the biggest one?! Well, not all of them... Resale? How much is a 5D MKIV? 3500 bitcoins? How much would you sell it? 1800? A Pentax K-1 is about 2000 bitcoins, and at 1000 it goes very quickly... Loss with Canon = 1700?, Loss with Pentax = 1000? Who did loose much more in this transaction?
05-18-2018, 03:08 AM   #403
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Can you point out to me which models support autofocus with K mount lens on Sony bodies
If you look at the TechartPro website,their adapter is to Leica M mount,so attach a M to K adapter and the motor in the adapter moves around and acquires focus from a Pentax lens.The university of YouTube has plenty of things to watch.

Fotodiox copied the TAP and is a cheaper version,their website will say that the firmware cant be updated but it can. All you do is use the TechartPro firmware!

The $$$ony bodies to pair with these adapters are A7 2&3,A9,A7r2&3 and A6300/6500.

Last edited by surfar; 05-18-2018 at 03:19 AM.
05-18-2018, 05:11 AM - 1 Like   #404
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QuoteOriginally posted by urssu Quote
True! Stills, dead things. Not all are searching just that in a camera. To take a camera and make it exclusively for one type of shooting (with other small branches coming from it) is bad Engineering.
This is partly a misrepresentation of what is being said, and partly a misunderstanding of modern cameras. "One camera for all" is largely a modern myth. Back in the age of film, one could take a basic camera, and "tune" it. The Super Program I purchased in 1983 would have been a poor choice for shooting sports, but only because I never purchased a motor drive for it - I am a low volume shooter, and when it takes me a month to use a 24 exposure roll of film, a motor drive makes no sense. If I had been shooting sports, I would have purchased a motor drive, and I would have used 36 exposure rolls of faster film rather than the 24 exposure rolls of Kodachrome 25 I did use.

When the Nikon D850 came out, Nikon users celebrated that they finally had a camera that could meet all their needs. Before, a professional would have a D500 to shoot sports and a D810 to shoot landscapes - that is the nature of digital cameras. Pentax comes close to a two-camera solution with the K-3ii and the K-1ii .... the only thing lacking is that AF on the K-3 series reportedly isn't as good as what Nikon has, but you certainly cannot fault the K-1ii for that.
05-18-2018, 06:31 AM - 1 Like   #405
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
... You need to understand ...
Thanks :^)

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
... Sony sensor is a black box that spits out digital data. You cannot reach inside and optimise anything on an analogue level. Even providing super stable voltages to the sensor does not help, as the sensor should not be viewed as an analogue device. I'll admit that I'm not passing on first-hand knowledge. Instead, I'm drawing on comments made by user falconeye ...
I didn't mention adding special sauce to the sensor.
I mentioned electric doodads surrounding the sensor and how they process the signal.

Stable voltages should be supplied by electrical doodads but I don't know if those are the electrical doodads Mr. Claff had in mind with his comment.. I suspect Bill may have more in mind than voltage regulation but I don't really know.

Reads like Falconeye and Bill might be talking about different things. If they both have in mind the same thing, based on what you have written and I have related, there is a difference of opinion.

Pentax has been lauded in forums for getting the most out of Sony sensors and while the lauding is a fact, the lauding itself is of course subjective but still I mentioned it as an ersatz 'evidence' of differences between cameras with the same or nearly same sensors. However, I followed with Bill's comment which I expected would carry some weight...

You are informing me of things I need to know and I believe hope to sway my opinion based on comments you have written that seem to contradict comments I have written with both comments from sources recognized as reasonably knowledgeable about things upon which they comment... :^)
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