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05-16-2018, 09:34 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
There are probably 100+ comments detailing the rational. I would suggest that it follows the same logic as removing the anti-alias filter, but providing emulation via the SR system. Why would anyone want to intentionally blur the capture by switching on the emulation? (Hint...it might improve photos of some subjects.)


Steve
Steve there might be 100+ comments detailing the rational but it doesn't mean those comments make any sense. The Accelerator Unit improves every photo at every ISO level over the K-1. I am not seeing the rational in turning that off.

The argument is that people would rather spend time trying to improve the quality of K-1 images to the level of the K-1MKII in post processing when the Accelerator Unit already does that for them better.

05-16-2018, 09:36 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
(...waiting for the inevitable comment suggesting other makers are much better at rolling out feature-rich firmware updates...)
Pretty sure Pentax rolling out feature-rich firmware updates on the same level as others except Fuji, witch head and shoulders above all, and Hasselblad, but they realised half baked firmware...
05-16-2018, 09:47 AM - 3 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
Steve there might be 100+ comments detailing the rational but it doesn't mean those comments make any sense.
They made sense to me, but who am I, if not a potential purchaser? I seldom shoot above ISO 3200 and am unwilling to pay a price in loss of RAW capture detail at the range of ISO 640 - 3200 over the performance of the K-1. In other words, the Accelerator does not do better in that range, at least not with the RAW that I looked at.

In other words I respectfully, though firmly, disagree.

Adding the option to manage the feature makes sense and is in line with the high level of configurability characteristic of Pentax dSLRs.


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05-16-2018, 10:07 AM   #19
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Do not buy - a new firmware cannot change that the camera is heavy and bulky (DPR) -


However I can carry that DPR-weight and going to update.


DPR is willingly killing the PENTAX!


If they succed - I'll stop photographing!



I wonder if it's Canon or Nikon they let go?


Last edited by BigMackCam; 05-16-2018 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Political comment
05-16-2018, 10:31 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
K-1mkII overspoed NR. Firmware update?
Pentax K1 doesn't have the NR. What's you problem?
05-16-2018, 10:56 AM - 2 Likes   #21
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If it was possible to make it optional then that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Most photographers would probably leave it on, but if you are an awesome post processor and think you can do better than you could turn it off.

I personally, think if I didn't like the accelerator's processing then I would just get a K-1. From what I've read the difference in auto focus isn't that great between the two cameras and what is the point of the K-1 II if not the accelerator chip.
05-16-2018, 11:00 AM - 2 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
They made sense to me, but who am I, if not a potential purchaser? I seldom shoot above ISO 3200 and am unwilling to pay a price in loss of RAW capture detail at the range of ISO 640 - 3200 over the performance of the K-1. In other words, the Accelerator does not do better in that range, at least not with the RAW that I looked at.

In other words I respectfully, though firmly, disagree.

Adding the option to manage the feature makes sense and is in line with the high level of configurability characteristic of Pentax dSLRs.


Steve
Steve I have yet to see any evidence to what you claim the Accelerator Unit is doing in the loss of RAW capture detail at any ISO level. The opposite is true. The higher the ISO the better the K-1MKII files become over the K-1. You can see the difference right from ISO 200. The comment Erictator made regarding the 900lbs gorilla that the K-1 has noise pretty much at all ISO levels is right and can be seen at the ISO200 comparison. The Accelerator Unit addresses exactly what Erictator is talking about. It's the reason I will not hesitate to upgrade my K-1. It is not hard to see either.

It can easily be seen here by simply increasing the ISO level step by step. It is clear which camera does a better.

The grey scale card is casting a shadow on the background. As the ISO is increased the K-1MKII clearly maintains the shadow much better because it maintains better continuous tone.

At what point am I supposed to see the loss of detail happening to the K-1MKII? At no point is it happening. The higher the ISO the better the K-1MKII looks regarding detail against all three cameras in that comparison. Look at the ISO12800 comparison. It's pretty clear which camera has retained more detail. If people think they can do a better job with 3rd party software post processing to get the K-1 images to look like the K-1MKII just seems like a big waste of time to me.

05-16-2018, 02:40 PM - 2 Likes   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
Steve I have yet to see any evidence to what you claim the Accelerator Unit is doing in the loss of RAW capture detail at any ISO level. The opposite is true. The higher the ISO the better the K-1MKII files become over the K-1. You can see the difference right from ISO 200. The comment Erictator made regarding the 900lbs gorilla that the K-1 has noise pretty much at all ISO levels is right and can be seen at the ISO200 comparison. The Accelerator Unit addresses exactly what Erictator is talking about. It's the reason I will not hesitate to upgrade my K-1. It is not hard to see either.

It can easily be seen here by simply increasing the ISO level step by step. It is clear which camera does a better.

The grey scale card is casting a shadow on the background. As the ISO is increased the K-1MKII clearly maintains the shadow much better because it maintains better continuous tone.

At what point am I supposed to see the loss of detail happening to the K-1MKII? At no point is it happening. The higher the ISO the better the K-1MKII looks regarding detail against all three cameras in that comparison. Look at the ISO12800 comparison. It's pretty clear which camera has retained more detail. If people think they can do a better job with 3rd party software post processing to get the K-1 images to look like the K-1MKII just seems like a big waste of time to me.
If you are looking at DPR's K-1 photos and comparing them to DPR's K-1MKII photos, you are completely misunderstanding the issue that DPR's review has found. DPR is comparing K-1MKII photos at 100 ISO + brightening to K-1MKII photos at 6400 ISO. I.e., photos from the exact same camera and the exact same lens, just different ISO values. The photos SHOULD look nearly identical but they do not, due to whatever the camera is doing to process the higher ISO shots. That's the issue.
05-16-2018, 02:44 PM - 1 Like   #24
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You will never see any critical loss happening with targets sharp all over. It does not work that way I have already found out. You need to have very sharp plane of focus around which bokeh changes to total blur. It is the transition which fails badly. I have a bad feeling where this will make a real mess - wide angle star field photos. Not many wide angles draw critically sharp edges and corners and sometimes focusing at infinity can fail just a tiny little bit.
05-16-2018, 04:26 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
You will never see any critical loss happening with targets sharp all over. It does not work that way I have already found out. You need to have very sharp plane of focus around which bokeh changes to total blur. It is the transition which fails badly. I have a bad feeling where this will make a real mess - wide angle star field photos. Not many wide angles draw critically sharp edges and corners and sometimes focusing at infinity can fail just a tiny little bit.
.... well that's just exactly what I'm preparing to do this evening. I've been trying since February and the weather / cloud cover have not been cooperating, until now.

05-16-2018, 04:37 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
.... well that's just exactly what I'm preparing to do this evening. I've been trying since February and the weather / cloud cover have not been cooperating, until now.


Please post your results, or at least your opinions? @MJKoski has what I believe are valid concerns around the noise reduction on slightly-out-of-focus detail. I don't consider the issue to be as bad as he does, but it's a subjective assessment. I think the effect is there, even if (in my view) it's quite minor. It would be interesting to see if it affects your star photos...
05-16-2018, 05:02 PM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
After reading pages and pages of hate towards DPR K-1mkII review and disappointment in overpowered NR in RAW, there is no answer, even on theoretical level; Can it be adjusted via next firmware update?


What does "overspoed" mean?
05-16-2018, 05:07 PM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
You will never see any critical loss happening with targets sharp all over. It does not work that way I have already found out. You need to have very sharp plane of focus around which bokeh changes to total blur. It is the transition which fails badly. I have a bad feeling where this will make a real mess - wide angle star field photos. Not many wide angles draw critically sharp edges and corners and sometimes focusing at infinity can fail just a tiny little bit.
MJKoski Show me the evidence to what you are claiming. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't you start a thread here at PF just days before DPR put up the K-1MKII Review making the exact claims that DPR is making? But you were using a photo taken what looks like in near darkness of a dead rabbit on the side of the road claiming that there was detail lose in a particular spot that had ruined your image.

You seem to always have a bad feeling.
05-16-2018, 05:23 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
What does "overspoed" mean?

It's the exact opposite of "underspoed" )
05-16-2018, 05:24 PM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Please post your results, or at least your opinions? @MJKoski has what I believe are valid concerns around the noise reduction on slightly-out-of-focus detail. I don't consider the issue to be as bad as he does, but it's a subjective assessment. I think the effect is there, even if (in my view) it's quite minor. It would be interesting to see if it affects your star photos...
I've been following the various threads with @MJKoski - in particular the white dot issue. His work and opinions have been very helpful to me. I do ambient low light night landscapes. With that I have been wavering on if I should upgrade to the mkII or just stay with the K1. A bird in the hand is worth how much in the bush. I did have some concern with DPR's findings - I just read them the other day, after getting back from Alaska for a couple of weeks. I saw the forum's comparison of the K1 vs mkII and there is a slightly better difference. I think it was you, who characterized it as removing a veil.

I posted this image previously, but I'll post it again as a place holder. I drove over an hour to this site, but there was a cowboy who had his truck and fifth wheel horse trailer right where I usually park. I needed to walk around his campsite to get to where I wanted to shoot from (essentially right at the edge of his campsite). After driving out I just wanted to get a few test shots and slide on out with out waking anyone up or spooking his horses.
  • At the end of January, the day after I received my new 15-30/f2.8 - I scooted out to test it at Oh dark hundred (0400) in the morning (right after the moon set and right before astro twilight). This is from the K1, DFA 15-30/f2.8 @ f2.8, ISO 800, 2 minutes. It's a stitch of 4 frames. No moon.


There is some noise in it. When you are out in the dark, no moon, just what ever ambient light there is from the stars, and perhaps some (reflected) lights 5, 40 and 60 miles away. You are going to get some noise - there is just no way around it. I was hoping someone would do some testing across the two bodies in pretty dark conditions (long exposures - essentially bringing out the noise at reasonably low ISOs).

I'll see what I get tonight.

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