[biz-engineer]

Search on ebay.com of FF cameras for sale, used only:

Pentax:
- K-1: 33 results
- K-1 mark II: 4 results

Canon:
- 5D mark IV: 59 results
- 5D mark III: 142 results
- 5D mark II: 253 results

Nikon:
- D800E: 57 results
- D810: 130 results
- D850: 24 results
- D600: 109 results
- D610: 85 results
- D750: 85 results

Sony mirrorless FF:
- A7: 186 results
- A7 II: 18 results
- A7R: 24 results
- A7R II: 27 results
- A7RIII: 1 result
- A7III: 7 results

Leica:
- SL typ 601: 3 results.

It's hard to conclude anything, depends on how many units of the model were sold new, how old is the camera model and if there is a new model or not...

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Last edited by biz-engineer; 09-06-2018 at 10:43 PM.

[david94903]

I think for some, it's a bit bigger than they're comfortable with. Especially with the D-FA line of lenses. My wife wanted one until she used mine. She's changed her tune and has decided to stick with the APS-C sized camera. Works for her.

[MikeyBugs95]

Lets see if Panny FF causes a stir here in PF.
Perhaps it's just me seeing a trend that's not there...

Humans are very good at identifying patterns even where none exist. Sometimes even better than computers. It's the reason we see a face on the Moon or faces in trees or shapes in the clouds. Humans are essentially "programmed" to do this from birth. So it's probably just you.

[lesmore49]

It's you. Since May 1, 2018 on the marketplace

mk2 - no reason given
mk1 - work demands canon and can't maintain two systems
silver ltd - one too many cameras, not being used (has mk2 and K-3 mk2)
mk1 - bought mk2
mk1 - bought mk2
mk1 - needs changed, selling Pentax gear
mk1 - selling to buy 645z
mk1 - FF not really needed for line of work
mk2 - didn't like accelerator unit, bought mk1
mk1 - no reason given
mk1 - sales pending, no reason given
mk2 - shoulder arm injuries, reduce weight load

So 12 in slightly over four months and of these 2 or 3 jumping from Pentax. One of those probably would have preferred to stay with Pentax.

Seems like we had this same discussion sometime last year. Looking back through the market place to the same number of months from the release date the number of K-1 for sale didn't seem any higher than any of the other models, e.g. say the K-3 one year after release vs K-1 at one year).

This post provides a lot of reasons, at least on the PF. Good analysis.

[ffking]

It there were a rise in K-1 sell-offs, some could be accounted for by changing to mkii, although the upgrade path would reduce that effect - but IF it were true and not just the sort of statistical blip that smaller numbers are prone to, then the most likely probability would be people bailing out of DSLRs because of thinking that the value went down as everybody else went mirrorless - it would seem rather an upside down way to view photography, but who knows - I think the sample is just to small to be statistically significant.

[rawr]

Unless a person has a lot of money and a high need for novelty, most serious photographers don't purchase gear unless the old stuff is worn out

Truth. I remember seeing an auction a while ago of cameras from a local newspaper group (at about the time the D500 and D5 were released) and was surprised at how beat up and old-model the cameras and lenses their working pro photographers had been using were. Their upgrade cycle seems to have been every 5 years (or more), not every time a new model is released.

[dafbp]

Search on ebay.com of FF cameras for sale, used only:

Pentax:
- K-1: 33 results
- K-1 mark II: 4 results

Canon:
- 5D mark IV: 59 results
- 5D mark III: 142 results
- 5D mark II: 253 results

Nikon:
- D800E: 57 results
- D810: 130 results
- D850: 24 results
- D600: 109 results
- D610: 85 results
- D750: 85 results

Sony mirrorless FF:
- A7: 186 results
- A7 II: 18 results
- A7R: 24 results
- A7R II: 27 results
- A7RIII: 1 result
- A7III: 7 results

Leica:
- SL typ 601: 3 results.

It's hard to conclude anything, depends on how many units of the model were sold new, how old is the camera model and if there is a new model or not...

If we take into consideration the market share of each brand, Pentax seems to have less used cameras on the [ebay] market, relatively speaking.

[normhead]

Wonder if they know something.

It's just you.

[biz-engineer]

If we take into consideration the market share of each brand, Pentax seems to have less used cameras on the [ebay] market, relatively speaking.

I think what's important here is to see the newest models for sale second hand: for all brands , there are very few of the latest models for sale. And the older models are for sale due to some people selling the previous model to finance the newer model. Anyway, thinking about it, the number of cameras for sale, used, doesn't mean anything, a lot of conditions can influence, and without knowing the reason for the sale, it is not really possible to conclude anything.

[mcgregni]

Humans are very good at identifying patterns even where none exist. Sometimes even better than computers. It's the reason we see a face on the Moon or faces in trees or shapes in the clouds. Humans are essentially "programmed" to do this from birth. So it's probably just you.

I just saw a cloud shaped like a K1! But not even a K1 is big enough to be seen on the moon, that’s just silly....

[Johndav]

I think there will always be an proportions of users who will upgrade to the latest version regardless of the condition of the existing kit. It's certainly common with cars.
When I was at college I had a friend who couldn't walk past a camera shop without buying a new camera; handy to know because he ended up selling the earlier camera on very cheaply and you could buy it safe in the knowledge that it was a couple of months old and had one careful owner since new - I got my first serious camera, a Fujica STX-1, this way. But I sort of wished I had held on because he sold a classmate an Olympus OM2 a couple of months later.

[Ontarian50]

There's always more than a few photo buffs who talk themselves into buying a new camera (like the K-1) even though it doesn't really fit with their lifestyle.

Only last year I talked with a guy trying to sell off his barely used Fuji XT-1 and lenses, after having bought it for an overseas trip, and then hardly used it because his Panasonic bridge camera did all he really wanted.

Some years ago a guy I know ditched his large heavy Canon EOS film cameras and lenses, and tried to go smaller lighter with a Nikon FM3a. He was happy for a short while, but digital came along and he started buying larger and heaving Nikon bodies, and larger heavier lenses, despite his chronic back pain. Again, he ditched the whole system, and talked himself into Olympus 4/3. A couple of years later he had bags of heavy stuff again, and sold it all off.

Were any of those cameras bad cameras? No, not really (although I never thought much of the 4/3 SLRs). They were just bad personal choices.

Fifteen years ago, hundreds of thousands of people couldn't wait to splurge on a DSLR, convinced they were just that one step away from pro-grade photography. Reality has set in, and learning photo technique is just as mystifying to many of those people as it was before with film. The cellphone became their answer.

But there's still going to be lots of photo buffs who talk themselves into that big investment, big camera, in search of quality, and realize a year or so later it wasn't for them, and they put it up for sale.

Actually, I'd be more disturbed if there were hardly any used K-1's out there. That would mean they were rare, and Pentax/Ricoh weren't having any success with them.

[stevebrot]

Actually, I'd be more disturbed if there were hardly any used K-1's out there. That would mean they were rare, and Pentax/Ricoh weren't having any success with them.

...or that they were all broken and irreparable.


Steve

[normhead]

Well, it hasn't been established that there are a disproportionate amount of K-1s for sale. We have no comparison data to give us a hint what the numbers might mean, I'm sure many switchers from other systems didn't realize what they were giving up from what they were using before.

The K-1 Mkii was just released, some are going to sell their K-1s and upgrade,

There is simply no way of knowing if there is any value at all in this discussion.
It's waste of time. I myself have a few minutes to waste, hence my post.
Wasting time is not always a bad thing.

[MossyRocks]

But there's still going to be lots of photo buffs who talk themselves into that big investment, big camera, in search of quality, and realize a year or so later it wasn't for them, and they put it up for sale.

There is it people confusing image quality (actual measurable quantitative attributes such as noise, pixel count, dynamic range, sharpness, etc), with picture quality (qualitative attributes like is it composed well). Far to many people think that a better newer camera will help with picture quality when in reality it only can help with image quality.

For a lot of the photography I have been doing lately my previous cameras were the limiting factor. Doing astro photography with an old spotmatic F is basically right out and the K-2000 I bought to practice taking pictures with also isn't very good for that. I wanted to get better with the picture quality aspect and not spend a ton on film and processing with an eventual plan to get a K-1 in a few years, so I spent $130 on the K-2000 and kit lens as it pays for itself after 6 rolls of film and developing. Tried some astro images with it and rapidly hit a wall but use it a lot because it was just fine for everything else. A couple of months later found a steal of a deal on a K-3 and got that knowing that it would work better for astro on the measurable aspects and that I could finally stop playing around with AA batteries. So here I am about 11 months into owning a digital camera now with the plan that I will replace the K-3 likely when the successor to the K-1ii comes out as I pile up ~10,000 shots every 5 months doing astro shots, cub scout event shots, and regular picture taking, plus practicing and learning. My abilities have not exceeded the offerings of the K-3 but the lower noise of a K-1 would help some with astro shots so there is still some camera lust but I can wait and hopefully by the time a K-1ii successor is out the K-3 will be the limiting factor of my ability to take a picture.