Does creativity go down as format size goes up?

**pepperberry farm** · 12-23-2019, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by ffking

Another?? I can't think of one at all- oh yes, waiting for it's successor...

no, there are several reasons to not buy a K-1...

this is just the latest...

**Mikesul** · 12-23-2019, 06:12 AM - **1 Like**

I think we mainly have a problem of definition here. Creativity is always independent of the equipment and even the medium.

HoutHans · 12-23-2019, 06:25 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Creativity goes down to zero when the unit cost of taking pictures goes down to zero. .

I respectfully disagree. First, I should perhaps explain that I understand creativity as experimenting and trying to find out where the boundaries of the imaging technology lie. The costs, if anything, inhibited my creativity in the 35 mm era. Now, at the smaller APS-C format, I will happily experiment and take pictures that I never would dare to in the film days. I fail to see any relation between format and/or per unit costs on the one hand and creativity on the other. Maybe the attention to taking a photograph can decrease when per unit costs decrease, but I do not understand attention in photography to be same thing as creativity.

**Sir Nameless** · 12-23-2019, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by HoutHans

Now, at the smaller APS-C format, I will happily experiment and take pictures that I never would dare to in the film days.

This. The near-zero unit cost* means you can try things and throw away the bad and boring ones without worrying about it too much. I still only put my best stuff on flickr, which is <5% of what I tried. Maybe <2%.

When I shot film back in the daaaayyyy they were mostly boring (by my current standards) because I didn't have a lot of extra money to throw at film and processing.

(* In dollars, anyway. Time is another story.)

**fs999** · 12-23-2019, 06:38 AM

I don't think I'm creative, but I've migrated from APS-C to FF (digitally speaking)...

**Digitalis** · 12-23-2019, 06:57 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by GUB

you are going to have to word that clearer Digitalis. It seems like you are trying to say that because you can do a slightly smoother bokeh then that is reducing creativity.

Not at all; I'm saying that because an effect is easier to achieve, it removes a limitation (or what one perceive to be a limitation of a smaller format). Also the increased resolution and shallowness of DOF from a larger format can make technical challenges out of what would otherwise be simple image to produce on cameras with smaller sensors.

Non sequitur: Moving to larger formats = diminishing creativity. The whole premise of this thread is a bit absurd.

**Sir Nameless** · 12-23-2019, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

Non sequitur

Totally.

Roadboat24 · 12-23-2019, 07:20 AM

If your creative with a crop sensor, you can be creative with a full frame sensor. That being said. I think, when you are "Used" to a crop sensor, there is a little bit of a learning curve to full frame.

biz-engineer · 12-23-2019, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by HoutHans

I will happily experiment and take pictures that I never would dare to in the film days.

Could you provide examples where digital allow creativity not possible with film?

photoptimist · 12-23-2019, 08:08 AM - **3 Likes**

Perhaps it's not the size of the format but the novelty of the format that is affecting creativity. And perhaps it's not a permanent loss of creativity but a short-term pause.

Any time one gets a new tool, creativity declines during the learning process. With a new camera in a new format, there's a learning curve. One tries various test shots with various lenses in various types of scenes or maybe tries to copy some style associated with the format. It's not the most creative process.

Until one learns what a new tool can do, it's hard to really do something new and creative with it.

So, study the K-1, explore the K-1, enjoy the K-1. And when you understand the K-1, your creativity with it can blossom.

**DWS1** · 12-23-2019, 08:35 AM - **4 Likes**

Creativity is just a state of mind. A camera is just a tool one uses to express that creativity. One's creative imagination drives the choice of camera to use, not the other way around. Having said that, technological advances can spark expanded creativity. Technology is not causing our creativity to decrease, however, it is causing us to become lazy and unmotivated, and that's what causes a loss in creativity.

DeadJohn · 12-23-2019, 08:45 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by barondla

...Almost didn't buy the K-1 and join ff because it might cause a drop in creativity...

The concept that changing from APS-C to FF affects creativity is, to me, absurd. Some photographic themes are easier to accomplish with different formats, but the 2 sensors sizes available in Pentax DSLRs are so close to each other that the difference is undetectable in most photos.

I moved from the K-5 to K-1. I upgraded for low light (astrophotography and night cityscapes), but a stop or two improvement neither makes nor breaks creativity.

**Mikesul** · 12-23-2019, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by DWS1

Creativity is just a state of mind. A camera is just a tool one uses to express that creativity. One's creative imagination drives the choice of camera to use, not the other way around. Having said that, technological advances can spark expanded creativity. Technology is not causing our creativity to decrease, however, it is causing us to become lazy and unmotivated, and that's what causes a loss in creativity.

Exactly!

**luftfluss** · 12-23-2019, 09:11 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by barondla

Fear it is often true. Too early to tell if it will be true for me and the K-1. Hope not. Does anyone feel full frame has diminished their creativity?

Almost didn't buy the K-1 and join ff because it might cause a drop in creativity. But the Pentax crop offering was missing many features I wanted. Some, like gps, could be added, but then a new KP ended up costing as much as a slightly used K-1.

Thanks,
barondla

I don't think there is necessarily a correlation between format size and creativity, but what I have experienced - in and out of photography - is that there can be a (hopefully temporary) dip in creativity when learning a wonderfully advanced new tool. Sometimes the new tools are so fascinating simply exploring and learning them is an end unto itself. And sometimes, there is so much low-hanging fruit to harvest with your new gear that it takes a while to look up to the higher-aspiration stuff.

In short, be patient with yourself, and enjoy the exploration!

Edit: I just realized that I'm basically restating what @photoptimist already said.

**dms** · 12-23-2019, 10:15 AM

By definition I don’t think there is a formula for creativity or for a block to creativity. However, I am certain very minor/almost trivial things can be responsible for the making or not making of a masterpiece, but I doubt that is a realistic worry for me.

12-23-2019, 08:08 AM - 3 Likes	#40
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,128	Perhaps it's not the size of the format but the novelty of the format that is affecting creativity. And perhaps it's not a permanent loss of creativity but a short-term pause. Any time one gets a new tool, creativity declines during the learning process. With a new camera in a new format, there's a learning curve. One tries various test shots with various lenses in various types of scenes or maybe tries to copy some style associated with the format. It's not the most creative process. Until one learns what a new tool can do, it's hard to really do something new and creative with it. So, study the K-1, explore the K-1, enjoy the K-1. And when you understand the K-1, your creativity with it can blossom. Last edited by photoptimist; 12-23-2019 at 08:40 AM.

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12-23-2019, 05:57 AM	#31
pepperberry farm amateur dirt farmer Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: probably out in a field somewhere... Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 41,766	Originally posted by ffking Another?? I can't think of one at all- oh yes, waiting for it's successor... no, there are several reasons to not buy a K-1... this is just the latest...

12-23-2019, 06:12 AM - 1 Like	#32
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	I think we mainly have a problem of definition here. Creativity is always independent of the equipment and even the medium.

12-23-2019, 06:25 AM - 1 Like	#33
HoutHans Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Appingedam Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,123	Originally posted by biz-engineer Creativity goes down to zero when the unit cost of taking pictures goes down to zero. . I respectfully disagree. First, I should perhaps explain that I understand creativity as experimenting and trying to find out where the boundaries of the imaging technology lie. The costs, if anything, inhibited my creativity in the 35 mm era. Now, at the smaller APS-C format, I will happily experiment and take pictures that I never would dare to in the film days. I fail to see any relation between format and/or per unit costs on the one hand and creativity on the other. Maybe the attention to taking a photograph can decrease when per unit costs decrease, but I do not understand attention in photography to be same thing as creativity.

12-23-2019, 06:36 AM	#34
Sir Nameless Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Mass a chew sits Photos: Gallery Posts: 574	Originally posted by HoutHans Now, at the smaller APS-C format, I will happily experiment and take pictures that I never would dare to in the film days. This. The near-zero unit cost* means you can try things and throw away the bad and boring ones without worrying about it too much. I still only put my best stuff on flickr, which is <5% of what I tried. Maybe <2%. When I shot film back in the daaaayyyy they were mostly boring (by my current standards) because I didn't have a lot of extra money to throw at film and processing. (* In dollars, anyway. Time is another story.)

12-23-2019, 06:38 AM	#35
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,646	I don't think I'm creative, but I've migrated from APS-C to FF (digitally speaking)...

12-23-2019, 06:57 AM - 1 Like	#36
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by GUB you are going to have to word that clearer Digitalis. It seems like you are trying to say that because you can do a slightly smoother bokeh then that is reducing creativity. Not at all; I'm saying that because an effect is easier to achieve, it removes a limitation (or what one perceive to be a limitation of a smaller format). Also the increased resolution and shallowness of DOF from a larger format can make technical challenges out of what would otherwise be simple image to produce on cameras with smaller sensors. Non sequitur: Moving to larger formats = diminishing creativity. The whole premise of this thread is a bit absurd.

12-23-2019, 07:03 AM	#37
Sir Nameless Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Mass a chew sits Photos: Gallery Posts: 574	Originally posted by Digitalis Non sequitur Totally.

12-23-2019, 07:20 AM	#38
Roadboat24 Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 490	If your creative with a crop sensor, you can be creative with a full frame sensor. That being said. I think, when you are "Used" to a crop sensor, there is a little bit of a learning curve to full frame.

12-23-2019, 07:35 AM	#39
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,245	Originally posted by HoutHans I will happily experiment and take pictures that I never would dare to in the film days. Could you provide examples where digital allow creativity not possible with film?

12-23-2019, 08:35 AM - 4 Likes	#41
DWS1 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 1,169	Creativity is just a state of mind. A camera is just a tool one uses to express that creativity. One's creative imagination drives the choice of camera to use, not the other way around. Having said that, technological advances can spark expanded creativity. Technology is not causing our creativity to decrease, however, it is causing us to become lazy and unmotivated, and that's what causes a loss in creativity.

12-23-2019, 08:45 AM - 1 Like	#42
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	Originally posted by barondla ...Almost didn't buy the K-1 and join ff because it might cause a drop in creativity... The concept that changing from APS-C to FF affects creativity is, to me, absurd. Some photographic themes are easier to accomplish with different formats, but the 2 sensors sizes available in Pentax DSLRs are so close to each other that the difference is undetectable in most photos. I moved from the K-5 to K-1. I upgraded for low light (astrophotography and night cityscapes), but a stop or two improvement neither makes nor breaks creativity.

12-23-2019, 08:58 AM	#43
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by DWS1 Creativity is just a state of mind. A camera is just a tool one uses to express that creativity. One's creative imagination drives the choice of camera to use, not the other way around. Having said that, technological advances can spark expanded creativity. Technology is not causing our creativity to decrease, however, it is causing us to become lazy and unmotivated, and that's what causes a loss in creativity. Exactly!

12-23-2019, 09:11 AM - 1 Like	#44
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,627	Originally posted by barondla Fear it is often true. Too early to tell if it will be true for me and the K-1. Hope not. Does anyone feel full frame has diminished their creativity? Almost didn't buy the K-1 and join ff because it might cause a drop in creativity. But the Pentax crop offering was missing many features I wanted. Some, like gps, could be added, but then a new KP ended up costing as much as a slightly used K-1. Thanks, barondla I don't think there is necessarily a correlation between format size and creativity, but what I have experienced - in and out of photography - is that there can be a (hopefully temporary) dip in creativity when learning a wonderfully advanced new tool. Sometimes the new tools are so fascinating simply exploring and learning them is an end unto itself. And sometimes, there is so much low-hanging fruit to harvest with your new gear that it takes a while to look up to the higher-aspiration stuff. In short, be patient with yourself, and enjoy the exploration! Edit: I just realized that I'm basically restating what @photoptimist already said.

12-23-2019, 10:15 AM	#45
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	By definition I don’t think there is a formula for creativity or for a block to creativity. However, I am certain very minor/almost trivial things can be responsible for the making or not making of a masterpiece, but I doubt that is a realistic worry for me.