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10-22-2020, 07:26 AM   #1
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What causes EXIF Exposure Program to be 'Not Defined'?

Most of my photography is done with the K1 mk II set on Aperture Priority and that's what it says in the EXIF most of the time - with an occasionall 'Manual', 'Shutter Priority', 'Auto' here and there. But I have just noticed that there are quite a few shots in my archive where the EXIF data says Exposure Program 'Not Defined'. In one particular case this is quite annoying because I would really like to know what the setting was when the shot was taken. Does anyone know what setting causes Exposure Program to say 'Not Defined' please?

10-22-2020, 08:36 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by thepedant Quote
Does anyone know what setting causes Exposure Program to say 'Not Defined' please?
The short answer is that the camera set the value to zero.

QuoteQuote:
The specification defines these values:

0 = Not defined
1 = Manual
2 = Normal program
3 = Aperture priority
4 = Shutter priority
5 = Creative program (biased toward depth of field)
6 = Action program (biased toward fast shutter speed)
7 = Portrait mode (for closeup photos with the background out of focus)
8 = Landscape mode (for landscape photos with the background in focus)
From Exif TIFF Tag ExposureProgram, code 34850 (0x8822)

I would expect that TAv mode might result in that value being set.


Steve
10-22-2020, 07:38 PM   #3
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What about user modes?
10-22-2020, 09:27 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
What about user modes?
Whatever exposure mode is defined for the user mode is what the camera will write to the EXIF. Generally, the proprietary makernotes data will give particulars not supported by the more limited EXIF standard.


Steve

10-23-2020, 12:05 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by thepedant Quote
Most of my photography is done with the K1 mk II set on Aperture Priority and that's what it says in the EXIF most of the time - with an occasionall 'Manual', 'Shutter Priority', 'Auto' here and there. But I have just noticed that there are quite a few shots in my archive where the EXIF data says Exposure Program 'Not Defined'. In one particular case this is quite annoying because I would really like to know what the setting was when the shot was taken. Does anyone know what setting causes Exposure Program to say 'Not Defined' please?


This can be down to the software being used not "understanding" the codes used by Pentax, so returning a null string. Alternatively, maybe the EXIF has been modified by some third-party software. Some programs appear to "adjust" the EXIF to suit their own ends, leaving it unusable, in part at least, by other programs … (bin there, done that!)
I'd double-check using the latest version of the supplied "Digital Camera Utility" … if that doesn't understand Pentax, then nothing will!
10-23-2020, 01:52 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
What about user modes?
I used a user mode for some shots yesterday which is programmed to Shutter Priority and Shutter Priority is what it says when I display the EXIF data.

---------- Post added 10-23-20 at 02:00 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The short answer is that the camera set the value to zero.


From Exif TIFF Tag ExposureProgram, code 34850 (0x8822)

I would expect that TAv mode might result in that value being set.


Steve
Yes! That's it. I just now tried it. TAv. Good grief - I had no idea that I had ever used it. Thanks very much.
10-23-2020, 02:24 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by thepedant Quote
Most of my photography is done with the K1 mk II set on Aperture Priority and that's what it says in the EXIF most of the time - with an occasionall 'Manual', 'Shutter Priority', 'Auto' here and there. But I have just noticed that there are quite a few shots in my archive where the EXIF data says Exposure Program 'Not Defined'. In one particular case this is quite annoying because I would really like to know what the setting was when the shot was taken. Does anyone know what setting causes Exposure Program to say 'Not Defined' please?
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The short answer is that the camera set the value to zero.


From Exif TIFF Tag ExposureProgram, code 34850 (0x8822)

I would expect that TAv mode might result in that value being set.


Steve
QuoteOriginally posted by thepedant Quote
I used a user mode for some shots yesterday which is programmed to Shutter Priority and Shutter Priority is what it says when I display the EXIF data.

---------- Post added 10-23-20 at 02:00 AM ----------



Yes! That's it. I just now tried it. TAv. Good grief - I had no idea that I had ever used it. Thanks very much.
Here is a quick view of your Avatar on the forum, I used a little add on for my browser (Exif Viewer - Essential Aspects of Images and Photos) to read your EXIF from the web page, there is a lot of information available on Phil Harvey's forum with regards to EXIF data and the code breakdowns from Pentax.

Just in case you're looking for the tag info for Pentax this link may help!Pentax Tags

Attached Images
 

Last edited by SharkyCA; 10-23-2020 at 02:41 AM. Reason: Add Link
10-23-2020, 05:52 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by SharkyCA Quote
Just in case you're looking for the tag info for Pentax this link may help!Pentax Tags
Yes thanks. I may well indulge in a bit of hacking to my copy of ExifTool (which I use to display EXIF data). It knows there is a camera called the K-1 but it doesn't know about the mk2 and obviously doesn't know about TAv mode either. Something to do during Coronavirus lock-down anyway!

Thanks to all who replied.
10-23-2020, 02:24 PM   #9
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Do you have the latest version of exiftool?

---------- Post added 10-23-20 at 02:44 PM ----------

The K-1 II is listed in the tags on the site, maybe you need to update your software version.

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10-23-2020, 03:02 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
Do you have the latest version of exiftool?

---------- Post added 10-23-20 at 02:44 PM ----------

The K-1 II is listed in the tags on the site, maybe you need to update your software version.

PentaxModelID
That would be the ideal next move but I'm unsure about installing stuff that is not an official update from Opensuse. I might just try replacing the Pentax.pm module in the Image Perl library and see what happens. That way should be relatively safe and easy to undo if it doesn't work.
10-23-2020, 03:18 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by thepedant Quote
Yes thanks. I may well indulge in a bit of hacking to my copy of ExifTool (which I use to display EXIF data). It knows there is a camera called the K-1 but it doesn't know about the mk2 and obviously doesn't know about TAv mode either.
Do update your copy of ExifTool, though doing so will not change the outcome for your original question. There are only nine values supported by the EXIF specification, for which ExifTool will support those nine plus a tenth, the value "9" written by some Canon products for Bulb mode.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 10-23-2020 at 07:34 PM.
10-23-2020, 03:24 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by thepedant Quote
That would be the ideal next move but I'm unsure about installing stuff that is not an official update from Opensuse.
What version does Opensuse currently provide? The most recent at exiftool.org is 12.08 (15 Oct 2020), though any version from the last couple of years should support your camera.


Steve
10-23-2020, 06:51 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by thepedant Quote
That would be the ideal next move but I'm unsure about installing stuff that is not an official update from Opensuse. I might just try replacing the Pentax.pm module in the Image Perl library and see what happens. That way should be relatively safe and easy to undo if it doesn't work.
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Do update your copy of ExifTool, though doing so will not change the outcome for your original question. There are only nine values supported by the EXIF specification, for which ExifTool will support those nine plus a tenth, the value "9" written by some Canon products.


Steve
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
What version does Opensuse currently provide? The most recent at exiftool.org is 12.08 (15 Oct 2020), though any version from the last couple of years should support your camera.


Steve
Not my area of expertise but the EXIFTOOL by Phil Harvey can be downloaded from SourceForge.net (Version 12.08 Oct 15 2020) or from his original site Phil Harvey . Phil Harvey also provides a link on his site to a Windows installer/uninstaller provided by Oliver Betz which I use regularly as I am a definite novice on doing this stuff by following code! Oliver Betz | Artikel / ExifTool Windows installer and portable package Also if you run into problems there is a good resource at the ExifTools forum which can answer most all questions.

Hope this helps All!

Cheers

Last edited by SharkyCA; 10-23-2020 at 07:03 PM. Reason: Correction to text
10-24-2020, 02:07 AM - 1 Like   #14
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Oh dear! Sorry! I just had a revelation this morning. I should have been looking at Picture Mode, not Exposure Program. Then I would have seen that for the pictures I was referring to in my OP the output from ExifTool included the line:

Picture Mode : Shutter & Aperture Priority AE; 1/3 EV steps

This will have been derived from the manufacturers private data. My existing ExifTool version is adequate and I don't need to update it. I just have to remember to ignore Exposure Program and use Picture Mode instead. I can only apologise for misleading you all.
10-24-2020, 04:45 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by thepedant Quote
Oh dear! Sorry! I just had a revelation this morning. I should have been looking at Picture Mode, not Exposure Program. Then I would have seen that for the pictures I was referring to in my OP the output from ExifTool included the line:

Picture Mode : Shutter & Aperture Priority AE; 1/3 EV steps

This will have been derived from the manufacturers private data. My existing ExifTool version is adequate and I don't need to update it. I just have to remember to ignore Exposure Program and use Picture Mode instead. I can only apologise for misleading you all.
No harm done, triggered a good discussion with good information on the Exif function and where to get more information!

Glad your problem sorted itself out!
Cheers
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