Move up from K3-ii

**aslyfox** · 12-06-2020, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Gian

. . . Should I rather save the money and buy a K1 . . .

when I started to look at a K 1, I read the owners reviews and in depth reviews and learned what was being said about its strengths and weaknesses

and decided my photography interests led me to not get one

now, based on an offer I could not refused on an experienced K 1 II, I can use it when I am seeking its strengths and the K 3 and K 3 II when those are stronger

only you can decide how a K 1 or K 1 II works for your interests in photography

**UncleVanya** · 12-06-2020, 06:23 PM

Have you tried the ‘dot tune’ method of af fine tuning?

The typical image from the da21 isn’t that soft. I would rent another copy and also retune those lenses using ‘Dot Tune’ which leverages live view to help determine the af fine adjustment needed for PDAF.

**DWS1** · 12-06-2020, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by DeadJohn

I agree something is very wrong with that photo. The fact that you mentioned live view gives better results suggests missed focus caused the problem (rather than camera shake or optical issues).

I completely agree.

**Gian** · 12-06-2020, 08:44 PM

Dot tune is interesting, I had done my fine tune with care, but I'll go through it all over again.

The problem with my DA21 is consistent, I mean, I get poor results even with strong light and high shutter speeds.

I will re-shoot the same subject on a tripod, carefully focusing, and we'll see.

tibbitts · 12-06-2020, 09:52 PM

So does this lens give results this poor (it does look very soft) when you use AF in live view, tripod-mounted?

**UncleVanya** · 12-06-2020, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by Gian

Dot tune is interesting, I had done my fine tune with care, but I'll go through it all over again.

The problem with my DA21 is consistent, I mean, I get poor results even with strong light and high shutter speeds.

I will re-shoot the same subject on a tripod, carefully focusing, and we'll see.

That is weird. I shoot a k3 but I don’t have that lens. I like the iq I get but I’m honestly not a pixel peeper. I print some images at mostly 13x19 on my Canon Pro-100. I can see an increase in resolution over my m43 gear but both make acceptable prints at that size.

someasiancameraguy · 12-07-2020, 02:20 AM

There is definitely something wrong with that sample photo you shot. I second all the opinions here to try recalibrating your lens + body and see if you get better results.

Moving up to FF and using the same lenses will pretty much always get you more usable sharpness in terms of lw/ph, so you should gauge what kind of output you want.

**StiffLegged** · 12-07-2020, 05:50 AM

Definitely use Dot Tune to recalibrate AF on that lens. I have an FA80-320 which was horribly soft most of the time unless focussed via LV. It turned out to need -8 on fine AF adjustment which transformed the results.

officiousbystander · 12-07-2020, 01:37 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by aaacb

these birds on the mountain top were used to people

The DA 21 as a birding lens! Now I don't have to buy the 55-300.

**Gian** · 12-08-2020, 06:20 AM

So, these two shots are taken on tripod, LV 100%, no SR, with no ambition to make a scientific test.
The 21 is indeed softer than 70.
Later this week I will Dot Tune the lens, but a quick and dirty test made this very moment on my desk, against a BW printed text, LV100%, confirms that if you press the AF button more than once, without moving the camera, you get different readings.
So the my K3-ii is "guessing", and the results are unpredictable: maybe right, maybe wrong.
I don't know if this is a problem of "my" K3-ii, but I don't recall this kind of issues with the K5.

**Gian** · 12-08-2020, 09:34 PM

I have considered that I may have a camera issue here.
If I have a perfectly tuned lens, but the camera changes it's mind every time I press AF, I'll never have an effective tool in my hands.
Do you think my K3-ii needs service, or things like that just happen?
My simple test was done with the camera sitting on my desk, pointing a large, well lit barcode.

Hayashi · 12-09-2020, 06:16 PM

I did operate K-3 HD DA-15 combo few years ago

After I sold the K-3 body, I moved to K-1 FA-31. HD DA-15 still in my arsenal, just less chance to work with.

I'd say that FA-31mm ain't really no "Wide" lens.

I think the best term to describe FA-31mm's view angle is , moderate, little wider than the standard 35mm (on FF body).

While both FA-31 and HD DA-15 are wide lens, they dun got much in common. HD DA-15 is much not aggressive and landscape-oriented.

You can visit my K-1 album with FA-31 on flickr

Pentax K-1 | Flickr

**UncleVanya** · 12-10-2020, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Hayashi

I did operate K-3 HD DA-15 combo few years ago

After I sold the K-3 body, I moved to K-1 FA-31. HD DA-15 still in my arsenal, just less chance to work with.

I'd say that FA-31mm ain't really no "Wide" lens.

I think the best term to describe FA-31mm's view angle is , moderate, little wider than the standard 35mm (on FF body).

While both FA-31 and HD DA-15 are wide lens, they dun got much in common. HD DA-15 is much not aggressive and landscape-oriented.

You can visit my K-1 album with FA-31 on flickr

Pentax K-1 | Flickr

35 is a moderate wide angle as is any lens up to about 28mm. The da 15 which is just a tad wider than a 24mm which is where I would say very wide or ultra wide starts.

**Gian** · 12-10-2020, 01:15 PM

While doing the Dot Tune procedure, I noticed that if you touch the front lens of the DA21, it goes easily out of focus.

Indeed, it has some play: maybe this is why when I press AF multiple times, it changes focus?

**UncleVanya** · 12-10-2020, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Gian

While doing the Dot Tune procedure, I noticed that if you touch the front lens of the DA21, it goes easily out of focus.

Indeed, it has some play: maybe this is why when I press AF multiple times, it changes focus?

Do you mean the glass is loose or that the focusing group can easily be moved manually while it’s on the camera?

12-06-2020, 06:23 PM	#17
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Have you tried the ‘dot tune’ method of af fine tuning? The typical image from the da21 isn’t that soft. I would rent another copy and also retune those lenses using ‘Dot Tune’ which leverages live view to help determine the af fine adjustment needed for PDAF. Last edited by UncleVanya; 12-06-2020 at 09:57 PM.

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12-06-2020, 05:23 PM	#16
aslyfox Seeker of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Topeka, Kansas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 24,581	Originally posted by Gian . . . Should I rather save the money and buy a K1 . . . when I started to look at a K 1, I read the owners reviews and in depth reviews and learned what was being said about its strengths and weaknesses and decided my photography interests led me to not get one now, based on an offer I could not refused on an experienced K 1 II, I can use it when I am seeking its strengths and the K 3 and K 3 II when those are stronger only you can decide how a K 1 or K 1 II works for your interests in photography

12-06-2020, 07:34 PM	#18
DWS1 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 1,169	Originally posted by DeadJohn I agree something is very wrong with that photo. The fact that you mentioned live view gives better results suggests missed focus caused the problem (rather than camera shake or optical issues). I completely agree.

12-06-2020, 08:44 PM	#19
Gian Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Laveno Mombello, Italy Posts: 133 Original Poster	Dot tune is interesting, I had done my fine tune with care, but I'll go through it all over again. The problem with my DA21 is consistent, I mean, I get poor results even with strong light and high shutter speeds. I will re-shoot the same subject on a tripod, carefully focusing, and we'll see.

12-06-2020, 09:52 PM	#20
tibbitts Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma USA Posts: 2,193	So does this lens give results this poor (it does look very soft) when you use AF in live view, tripod-mounted?

12-06-2020, 10:02 PM	#21
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by Gian Dot tune is interesting, I had done my fine tune with care, but I'll go through it all over again. The problem with my DA21 is consistent, I mean, I get poor results even with strong light and high shutter speeds. I will re-shoot the same subject on a tripod, carefully focusing, and we'll see. That is weird. I shoot a k3 but I don’t have that lens. I like the iq I get but I’m honestly not a pixel peeper. I print some images at mostly 13x19 on my Canon Pro-100. I can see an increase in resolution over my m43 gear but both make acceptable prints at that size.

12-07-2020, 02:20 AM	#22
someasiancameraguy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 419	There is definitely something wrong with that sample photo you shot. I second all the opinions here to try recalibrating your lens + body and see if you get better results. Moving up to FF and using the same lenses will pretty much always get you more usable sharpness in terms of lw/ph, so you should gauge what kind of output you want.

12-07-2020, 05:50 AM	#23
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,619	Definitely use Dot Tune to recalibrate AF on that lens. I have an FA80-320 which was horribly soft most of the time unless focussed via LV. It turned out to need -8 on fine AF adjustment which transformed the results.

12-07-2020, 01:37 PM - 2 Likes	#24
officiousbystander Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Sydney Photos: Gallery Posts: 912	Originally posted by aaacb these birds on the mountain top were used to people The DA 21 as a birding lens! Now I don't have to buy the 55-300.

12-08-2020, 09:34 PM	#26
Gian Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Laveno Mombello, Italy Posts: 133 Original Poster	I have considered that I may have a camera issue here. If I have a perfectly tuned lens, but the camera changes it's mind every time I press AF, I'll never have an effective tool in my hands. Do you think my K3-ii needs service, or things like that just happen? My simple test was done with the camera sitting on my desk, pointing a large, well lit barcode.

12-09-2020, 06:16 PM	#27
Hayashi Senior Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 177	I did operate K-3 HD DA-15 combo few years ago After I sold the K-3 body, I moved to K-1 FA-31. HD DA-15 still in my arsenal, just less chance to work with. I'd say that FA-31mm ain't really no "Wide" lens. I think the best term to describe FA-31mm's view angle is , moderate, little wider than the standard 35mm (on FF body). While both FA-31 and HD DA-15 are wide lens, they dun got much in common. HD DA-15 is much not aggressive and landscape-oriented. You can visit my K-1 album with FA-31 on flickr Pentax K-1 \| Flickr

12-10-2020, 09:39 AM	#28
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by Hayashi I did operate K-3 HD DA-15 combo few years ago After I sold the K-3 body, I moved to K-1 FA-31. HD DA-15 still in my arsenal, just less chance to work with. I'd say that FA-31mm ain't really no "Wide" lens. I think the best term to describe FA-31mm's view angle is , moderate, little wider than the standard 35mm (on FF body). While both FA-31 and HD DA-15 are wide lens, they dun got much in common. HD DA-15 is much not aggressive and landscape-oriented. You can visit my K-1 album with FA-31 on flickr Pentax K-1 \| Flickr 35 is a moderate wide angle as is any lens up to about 28mm. The da 15 which is just a tad wider than a 24mm which is where I would say very wide or ultra wide starts.

12-10-2020, 01:15 PM	#29
Gian Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Laveno Mombello, Italy Posts: 133 Original Poster	While doing the Dot Tune procedure, I noticed that if you touch the front lens of the DA21, it goes easily out of focus. Indeed, it has some play: maybe this is why when I press AF multiple times, it changes focus?

12-10-2020, 07:59 PM	#30
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,403	Originally posted by Gian While doing the Dot Tune procedure, I noticed that if you touch the front lens of the DA21, it goes easily out of focus. Indeed, it has some play: maybe this is why when I press AF multiple times, it changes focus? Do you mean the glass is loose or that the focusing group can easily be moved manually while it’s on the camera?