K-1 II PEF Incompatible with macOS Catalina

retpgmr · 04-06-2021, 12:05 PM

I recently purchased a K-1 II camera and discovered Catalina does not support the .PEF format from my K-1 II camera when I want to see the photos in Finder or Preview.app. Thank goodness Adobe Bridge and my raw processing software can see them. QUESTION - Does anyone on the forum have Big Sur installed on their Mac? If yes, is the K-1 II .PEF format supported by Finder and Preview.app in the new macOS?

JohnMc · 04-06-2021, 12:17 PM - **2 Likes**

Why not just put out .DNG's?

Not a Number · 04-06-2021, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by JohnMc

Why not just put out .DNG's?

That doesn't solve the problem with existing PEFs other than using the Adobe RAW converter.

This problem has cropped up quite often, unfortunately I don't recall the solution if any. There are several threads on issues of PEF files on various MacOS versions which should turn up using the search function.

**bwgv001** · 04-06-2021, 01:07 PM

May be talk to apple. PEF is around for a long time. Blame apple not pentax, why all of a sudden did they drop the driver for their built in viewers, processing engines?

**jatrax** · 04-06-2021, 01:11 PM - **1 Like**

This happens occasionally. I'm not an Apple guy so I have no explanation as to why.

However, the solution is to change to using the DNG format. For existing PEF files use the Adobe converter here to turn them into DNG.

NeoSpudly · 04-06-2021, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by retpgmr

I recently purchased a K-1 II camera and discovered Catalina does not support the .PEF format from my K-1 II camera when I want to see the photos in Finder or Preview.app. Thank goodness Adobe Bridge and my raw processing software can see them. QUESTION - Does anyone on the forum have Big Sur installed on their Mac? If yes, is the K-1 II .PEF format supported by Finder and Preview.app in the new macOS?

Finder just browses your file system so I wonder if they would show up better in Finder if you had software installed on the mac that could open them. Do you have Digital Camera Utility 5 installed on the mac?

pschlute · 04-06-2021, 01:17 PM

I have not used PEF for almost 15 years. I would also say I see no point viewing an unprocessed PEF or DNG file.

retpgmr · 04-06-2021, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by JohnMc

Why not just put out .DNG's?

I have researched online and the majority of posts state that you lose some raw data if you shoot DNG instead of the camera's RAW format.

---------- Post added 04-06-21 at 05:43 PM ----------

Originally posted by bwgv001

May be talk to apple. PEF is around for a long time. Blame apple not pentax, why all of a sudden did they drop the driver for their built in viewers, processing engines?

Yes PEF has been around for a long time. However, even PEF formats are different depending on the sensor you have in the Pentax camera.

---------- Post added 04-06-21 at 05:45 PM ----------

Originally posted by NeoSpudly

Finder just browses your file system so I wonder if they would show up better in Finder if you had software installed on the mac that could open them. Do you have Digital Camera Utility 5 installed on the mac?

I will look for that software and give it a try. Thanks

mtkeller · 04-06-2021, 06:16 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by retpgmr

I have researched online and the majority of posts state that you lose some raw data if you shoot DNG instead of the camera's RAW format.

I think I would look at what folks here and on the various Pentax Facebook groups say they do. The overwhelming majority of us shoot DNG. Given that, as far as I know, the only cameras that natively shoot DNG are Pentax (and a couple of Samsung rebadges of Pentax bodies), I wouldn't trust what random people on the internet say about shooting DNG…they can't shoot DNG. They're repeating some old wives' tale about losing something when you convert your camera's native raw format to DNG. However, Adobe Evangelist Terry White (Nikon guy) always teaches conversion to DNG as part of his Lightroom courses. I trust Terry on these things.

**ramseybuckeye** · 04-06-2021, 06:59 PM

I have BigSur 11.2.3, I just checked some old PEF files and they show up just fine when I did a "quick look".

DNG file do not lose anything, they are just "more compatible".

Paul the Sunman · 04-06-2021, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by retpgmr

QUESTION - Does anyone on the forum have Big Sur installed on their Mac? If yes, is the K-1 II .PEF format supported by Finder and Preview.app in the new macOS?

No problem on Big Sur.

**bwgv001** · 04-06-2021, 07:57 PM

@ RETPGMR "Yes PEF has been around for a long time. However, even PEF formats are different depending on the sensor you have in the Pentax camera"

I have never seen a reference to a change of PEF files, relative to sensor. Could you give me a link? I always was under the impression that they are 'Pentax-Standard' file containers.
I saw a few days ago another post about the potential problem with the new K3-III, writing files that no software can read, there they even discussed, the DNG, which in my opinion is a standard format. Would like to learn about the differences.

Thanks

**vrphoto** · 04-06-2021, 08:43 PM - **2 Likes**

To quote the answer to my question from the Lightroom Queen's Forum:

Question: what is the difference between DNG and a camera manufacturer's proprietary format (in this case, PEF)?

Answer: DNG is a public universal format. The information fields in the DNG file header block are described and documented by Adobe (the developer of the file format) and made public for anyone to use. The data block for a RAW file contains values recorded at the Photosites on the sensor. RAW photo sites are not converted to RGB pixels. The PEF file format is like the DNG RAW file format in that it has a Header block and a RAW data block. So either file format contains the same photo site values in the data block. The difference between the two file formats is the information fields in the header block are not described and documented by Pentax and can only be read and interpreted by PENTAX image processing software. Eventually Adobe and other image processing software developers will reverse engineer the proprietary PEF file format and be able to process the PEF RAW file data.

So the actual picture data is no different, just the interpretation as instructed from the different Header block.

If you are a Lightroom/Photoshop user (and don't already know this), Lightroom Queen Forums is a fantastic resource.

**StiffLegged** · 04-07-2021, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by mtkeller

...Given that, as far as I know, the only cameras that natively shoot DNG are Pentax (and a couple of Samsung rebadges of Pentax bodies), I wouldn't trust what random people on the internet say about shooting DNG...

DNG shooters include Leica mirrorless SL, SL2 and SL2S cameras, all digital Leicas in fact, so there you are: the best people shoot DNG.

Pentaxrookie · 04-07-2021, 12:27 AM

No problem on Catalina 10.15.7 here. I just tried it on my older Mac.
Had to find a PEF first. Do not use it anymore. DNG is just more versatile.

04-06-2021, 12:05 PM	#1
retpgmr New Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 17	K-1 II PEF Incompatible with macOS Catalina I recently purchased a K-1 II camera and discovered Catalina does not support the .PEF format from my K-1 II camera when I want to see the photos in Finder or Preview.app. Thank goodness Adobe Bridge and my raw processing software can see them. QUESTION - Does anyone on the forum have Big Sur installed on their Mac? If yes, is the K-1 II .PEF format supported by Finder and Preview.app in the new macOS?

04-06-2021, 07:57 PM	#12
bwgv001 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 697	@ RETPGMR "Yes PEF has been around for a long time. However, even PEF formats are different depending on the sensor you have in the Pentax camera" I have never seen a reference to a change of PEF files, relative to sensor. Could you give me a link? I always was under the impression that they are 'Pentax-Standard' file containers. I saw a few days ago another post about the potential problem with the new K3-III, writing files that no software can read, there they even discussed, the DNG, which in my opinion is a standard format. Would like to learn about the differences. Thanks Last edited by bwgv001; 04-06-2021 at 11:14 PM. Reason: link to earlier comment

04-06-2021, 08:43 PM - 2 Likes	#13
vrphoto Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Melbourne Posts: 150	To quote the answer to my question from the Lightroom Queen's Forum: Question: what is the difference between DNG and a camera manufacturer's proprietary format (in this case, PEF)? Answer: DNG is a public universal format. The information fields in the DNG file header block are described and documented by Adobe (the developer of the file format) and made public for anyone to use. The data block for a RAW file contains values recorded at the Photosites on the sensor. RAW photo sites are not converted to RGB pixels. The PEF file format is like the DNG RAW file format in that it has a Header block and a RAW data block. So either file format contains the same photo site values in the data block. The difference between the two file formats is the information fields in the header block are not described and documented by Pentax and can only be read and interpreted by PENTAX image processing software. Eventually Adobe and other image processing software developers will reverse engineer the proprietary PEF file format and be able to process the PEF RAW file data. So the actual picture data is no different, just the interpretation as instructed from the different Header block. If you are a Lightroom/Photoshop user (and don't already know this), Lightroom Queen Forums is a fantastic resource. Last edited by vrphoto; 04-06-2021 at 08:44 PM. Reason: Spelling

04-07-2021, 12:02 AM	#14
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,632	Originally posted by mtkeller ...Given that, as far as I know, the only cameras that natively shoot DNG are Pentax (and a couple of Samsung rebadges of Pentax bodies), I wouldn't trust what random people on the internet say about shooting DNG... DNG shooters include Leica mirrorless SL, SL2 and SL2S cameras, all digital Leicas in fact, so there you are: the best people shoot DNG. Last edited by StiffLegged; 04-07-2021 at 02:11 AM.

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04-06-2021, 12:17 PM - 2 Likes	#2
JohnMc Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2020 Posts: 655	Why not just put out .DNG's?

04-06-2021, 12:47 PM	#3
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by JohnMc Why not just put out .DNG's? That doesn't solve the problem with existing PEFs other than using the Adobe RAW converter. This problem has cropped up quite often, unfortunately I don't recall the solution if any. There are several threads on issues of PEF files on various MacOS versions which should turn up using the search function.

04-06-2021, 01:07 PM	#4
bwgv001 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 697	May be talk to apple. PEF is around for a long time. Blame apple not pentax, why all of a sudden did they drop the driver for their built in viewers, processing engines?

04-06-2021, 01:11 PM - 1 Like	#5
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	This happens occasionally. I'm not an Apple guy so I have no explanation as to why. However, the solution is to change to using the DNG format. For existing PEF files use the Adobe converter here to turn them into DNG.

04-06-2021, 01:17 PM	#6
NeoSpudly New Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Central NY Posts: 20	Originally posted by retpgmr I recently purchased a K-1 II camera and discovered Catalina does not support the .PEF format from my K-1 II camera when I want to see the photos in Finder or Preview.app. Thank goodness Adobe Bridge and my raw processing software can see them. QUESTION - Does anyone on the forum have Big Sur installed on their Mac? If yes, is the K-1 II .PEF format supported by Finder and Preview.app in the new macOS? Finder just browses your file system so I wonder if they would show up better in Finder if you had software installed on the mac that could open them. Do you have Digital Camera Utility 5 installed on the mac?

04-06-2021, 01:17 PM	#7
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,210	I have not used PEF for almost 15 years. I would also say I see no point viewing an unprocessed PEF or DNG file.

04-06-2021, 05:41 PM	#8
retpgmr New Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 17 Original Poster	Originally posted by JohnMc Why not just put out .DNG's? I have researched online and the majority of posts state that you lose some raw data if you shoot DNG instead of the camera's RAW format. ---------- Post added 04-06-21 at 05:43 PM ---------- Originally posted by bwgv001 May be talk to apple. PEF is around for a long time. Blame apple not pentax, why all of a sudden did they drop the driver for their built in viewers, processing engines? Yes PEF has been around for a long time. However, even PEF formats are different depending on the sensor you have in the Pentax camera. ---------- Post added 04-06-21 at 05:45 PM ---------- Originally posted by NeoSpudly Finder just browses your file system so I wonder if they would show up better in Finder if you had software installed on the mac that could open them. Do you have Digital Camera Utility 5 installed on the mac? I will look for that software and give it a try. Thanks

04-06-2021, 06:16 PM - 3 Likes	#9
mtkeller Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Sioux City, IA Photos: Gallery Posts: 938	Originally posted by retpgmr I have researched online and the majority of posts state that you lose some raw data if you shoot DNG instead of the camera's RAW format. I think I would look at what folks here and on the various Pentax Facebook groups say they do. The overwhelming majority of us shoot DNG. Given that, as far as I know, the only cameras that natively shoot DNG are Pentax (and a couple of Samsung rebadges of Pentax bodies), I wouldn't trust what random people on the internet say about shooting DNG…they can't shoot DNG. They're repeating some old wives' tale about losing something when you convert your camera's native raw format to DNG. However, Adobe Evangelist Terry White (Nikon guy) always teaches conversion to DNG as part of his Lightroom courses. I trust Terry on these things.

04-06-2021, 06:59 PM	#10
ramseybuckeye Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hampstead, NC Photos: Gallery Posts: 17,294	I have BigSur 11.2.3, I just checked some old PEF files and they show up just fine when I did a "quick look". DNG file do not lose anything, they are just "more compatible".

04-06-2021, 07:29 PM	#11
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	Originally posted by retpgmr QUESTION - Does anyone on the forum have Big Sur installed on their Mac? If yes, is the K-1 II .PEF format supported by Finder and Preview.app in the new macOS? No problem on Big Sur.

04-07-2021, 12:27 AM	#15
Pentaxrookie Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: 48282 Emsdetten Posts: 113	No problem on Catalina 10.15.7 here. I just tried it on my older Mac. Had to find a PEF first. Do not use it anymore. DNG is just more versatile.