CIPA battery rating vs how we use the camera

biz-engineer · 12-20-2021, 04:39 AM

After taking 4000 exposures for a time-lapse, using in interval mode of the K1, I was rather astonished that the battery indicator was still at 3 bars (full battery).
However, if I set the standby timer to "off", and leave the camera switched on without taking any picture, a full battery is completely discharged in 6 hours (DSLR) or 3 hours in live view mode.
If taking pictures is not what discharges the battery the most, I was questioning what would be the ideal power-down timer setting to get the most out of a fully charged battery.

I remember having used the 1 minute power down setting, having the camera wake up every time I want to take a picture but the battery didn't last as long as I expected.

I searched for CIPA ratings online and I found a document from 2003 that defines how camera battery life should be measured:

http://w5.twgp.com/pdf/DC-X002_E.pdf

Below some excerpts I selected from the document.

2. Measurement

2.1 Prerequisites

a)The basic rule for conducting the measurements is that all of the still-photography functions
of the digital camera shall be utilized to their full extent. Non-still photography functions (e.g.
audio- and movie-recording functions) need not be activated during the measurements.

b)The camera’s function-setting parameters, except those de fined in this measurement
procedure, shall be basically identical to the de fault settings at the factory.

2.5 Flash photography Full illumination flash shall be used for one of every two pictures taken.
For the other pictures, the flash shall not be used.

2.9 Motor driven optical zoom operation Before every picture is taken, the motor driven
optical zoom lens shall be moved either fro m the TELE end to the WIDE end, or from the
WIDE end to the TELE end. It is also acc eptable to move the zoom lens either as
TELE→WIDE→TELE, or as WIDE →TELE→WIDE before every second picture is taken.

2.10 AE/AF operation The AE/AF operation shall be done in accordance with the default
factory setting. No procedure is set forth herein for the operation.

2.11 Operating environment Measurements shall be made at 23°C ± 2°C, Relative Humidity
(RH) 50% ± 20%.

2.18 Handling of playback mode Nothing is specified regarding the playback mode and
automatic playback (the function for displaying images automatically immediately after they are
shot).

2.19 Shooting intervals Shooting shall begin 30 seconds after the power is turned on. During
that 30-second interval, the flash mode setting, zoom operation and other preparations for
shooting shall be made. Thereafter, shooting shall proceed at a rate of one picture every 30
seconds. If 30 seconds is not sufficient for initialization, or if the camera is not ready for
shooting 30 seconds after a shot, shooting shall resume immediately after the camera reaches its
ready state.

2.20 Power off frequency and intervals (see Explanatory Notes) Power shall be turned off
after every 10th picture has been shot and processed. The interval before the next power-on
shall be as much time as needed, without affecting battery life (i.e. so that any additional off
time will not change the measurement results). It shall be the responsibility of each
manufacturer to determine the appropriate length of off time.

**StiffLegged** · 12-20-2021, 05:56 AM

Comparing the testing regime as described with how you use your camera should tell you how relevant the CIPA results are to you. However, if all cameras are tested for CIPA figures in the same way, at least you can have an idea how long one camera is going to last on a single charge compared to another in the same circumstances. But only an idea.

**Mooncatt** · 12-20-2021, 07:51 AM

Standardized testing is for comparison between products, not how those products will react in your specific situation. CIPA rating is only one of many tools you should be using to evaluate a potential purchase. In my case, I don't even care about it because I can always swap batteries when needed. If you are doing something like time lapse photography and rely heavily on battery life, then that rating may mean a lot to you.

biz-engineer · 12-20-2021, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by StiffLegged

However, if all cameras are tested for CIPA figures in the same way, at least you can have an idea how long one camera is going to last on a single charge compared to another in the same circumstances

Well, CIPA isn't a good indicator because it doesn't take into account how much power is used by the camera when it's not taking pictures. So if I'd walk for a day in Rome, with the camera always ready for taking a picture, for some cameras the battery will be drained in 2 hours, while for other cameras with the same CIPA rating a fully charged battery will last the whole day. Based on interval shooting, at a rate of one exposure every 2 seconds, my K1 could take as many as 10 000 pictures on one battery, but if it stays powered for 6 hours I may be able to take only 10 pictures. Shooting 10 pictures at a rate of 1 picture every 30 seconds and then switching off the camera is not how I use cameras, I usually leave the camera running and I only take pictures when the opportunity arise, so for me the standby time is much more important.

**Michail_P** · 12-20-2021, 07:53 AM

I think the standard procedure is relatively challenging for an average amateur’s use. 1/2 flash shots, on/off 1/10 shots and fully functional, all combined?? Do I get it right ?
I have two batteries and barely even changed the first during a hike or a walk.

biz-engineer · 12-20-2021, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Michail_P

1/2 flash shots, on/off 1/10 shots and fully functional, all combined?? Do I get it right ?

I think the cycle is like: Power-On => wait => 10 shots for 5 minutes use (3 flash) => Power-off. It doesn't account for how much power is used when the camera is in standby. It looks like on the K1, picture taking consume nothing overall, and it's keeping the camera in standby that sucks the most out of the battery. So, if I'd set auto-power off to 1 minute and only wake up the camera then take a group of images already prepared in my mind's eye and with the viewfinder, I could have one fully charged battery last a week.

**Michail_P** · 12-20-2021, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by biz-engineer

I think the cycle is like: Power-On => wait => 10 shots for 5 minutes use (3 flash) => Power-off. It doesn't account for how much power is used when the camera is in standby. It looks like on the K1, picture taking consume nothing overall, and it's keeping the camera in standby that sucks the most out of the battery. So, if I'd set auto-power off to 1 minute and only wake up the camera then take a group of images already prepared in my mind's eye and with the viewfinder, I could have one fully charged battery last a week.

That’s interesting... so the standby mode is such a battery sucker??? I would think it’s the on /off that needs more energy.

biz-engineer · 12-20-2021, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Michail_P

That’s interesting... so the standby mode is such a battery sucker??? I would think it’s the on /off that needs more energy.

I'd be interested to know how much energy is burned by an Off-On cycle in Standby equivalent minutes, that way I could select the most balance Auto-power-off setting. Let's say, for example , if the On-Off cycle sucks as much as 10 minutes standby, than the 1 minute auto-power off isn't the best choice.

**StiffLegged** · 12-20-2021, 11:01 AM

Well, if I’m in the market for a new camera and model A’s CIPA rating is 250 shots per charge versus model B’s 750 shots per charge, I might think B has better battery life. That’s all the use of the CIPA rating to me, nothing more in practice. I do carry three batteries anyway.

biz-engineer · 12-21-2021, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by StiffLegged

Well, if I’m in the market for a new camera and model A’s CIPA rating is 250 shots per charge versus model B’s 750 shots per charge, I might think B has better battery life.

That's the problem. Model A may have more features than model B, but only 250 shots CIPA rating, whereas practically having a very small standby consumption, and so practically much more than 250 shots. So you make a purchase decision based on something you don't actually get if your style of shooting is not the same as the CIPA test.

K1 is rated 600 or 700 shots CIPA, so the equivalent of the lastest Sony MILC models. But in practice , as I could observe my K1 can take 4000 shots with 1/3rd of battery charge since most consumption is due to time of use rather than exposures, and possibly mirrorless cameras with the same CIPA rating can take a third of the exposures.

**Rondec** · 12-21-2021, 04:27 AM

Seems like there are a couple of things. Cameras like the K-1, which don't have an on board flash, shouldn't be affected by the flash requirement. Whereas cameras that have on board flash will have a penalty by having to fire it every other shot. I think MILCs would tend to look better than maybe they are because this sort of shooting seems less like what I do in the real world. In practice, I look through the viewfinder a lot more than thirty seconds and actually take few shots. If I go out to do some landscape shooting, I probably only come back with 15 or 20 shots, but I spend a lot of time looking through the viewfinder, thinking about composition and things like that. With an SLR I can do all of that with the camera off, with an MILC, it will need to be on to run the EVF.

In practice, I get fewer shots than CIPA says, but I don't take that many photos at a time either. 600 shots might be the number of photos I shoot in a couple of months (the exception is a vacation where I shoot that number over a week's time). You'll tend to get more shots per charge if you just lean on the shutter and take long bursts of photos than if you take few photos and do more visualizing.

biz-engineer · 12-21-2021, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

If I go out to do some landscape shooting, I probably only come back with 15 or 20 shots, but I spend a lot of time looking through the viewfinder, thinking about composition and things like that.

That's what I do. I have the camera switched-on all the time, and only take a picture when I spot an interesting composition, most of the time the camera is idle. Only when shooting moving subjects I used bursts.

biz-engineer · 12-21-2021, 11:48 PM

As a matter of fact, CIPA rating for the K1 is 760 exposures, which corresponds to 380 minutes of camera operation. Pentax K1 manual says 340 minutes in playback mode. I measured about 6 hours (360 minutes). What this all means is that the consumption of used by exposures and on/off cycles is globally negligible relative to standby state consumption. So the most power saving setting would be the 1 minute auto-power off setting.

12-20-2021, 04:39 AM	#1
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,241	CIPA battery rating vs how we use the camera After taking 4000 exposures for a time-lapse, using in interval mode of the K1, I was rather astonished that the battery indicator was still at 3 bars (full battery). However, if I set the standby timer to "off", and leave the camera switched on without taking any picture, a full battery is completely discharged in 6 hours (DSLR) or 3 hours in live view mode. If taking pictures is not what discharges the battery the most, I was questioning what would be the ideal power-down timer setting to get the most out of a fully charged battery. I remember having used the 1 minute power down setting, having the camera wake up every time I want to take a picture but the battery didn't last as long as I expected. I searched for CIPA ratings online and I found a document from 2003 that defines how camera battery life should be measured: http://w5.twgp.com/pdf/DC-X002_E.pdf Below some excerpts I selected from the document. 2. Measurement 2.1 Prerequisites a)The basic rule for conducting the measurements is that all of the still-photography functions of the digital camera shall be utilized to their full extent. Non-still photography functions (e.g. audio- and movie-recording functions) need not be activated during the measurements. b)The camera’s function-setting parameters, except those de fined in this measurement procedure, shall be basically identical to the de fault settings at the factory. 2.5 Flash photography Full illumination flash shall be used for one of every two pictures taken. For the other pictures, the flash shall not be used. 2.9 Motor driven optical zoom operation Before every picture is taken, the motor driven optical zoom lens shall be moved either fro m the TELE end to the WIDE end, or from the WIDE end to the TELE end. It is also acc eptable to move the zoom lens either as TELE→WIDE→TELE, or as WIDE →TELE→WIDE before every second picture is taken. 2.10 AE/AF operation The AE/AF operation shall be done in accordance with the default factory setting. No procedure is set forth herein for the operation. 2.11 Operating environment Measurements shall be made at 23°C ± 2°C, Relative Humidity (RH) 50% ± 20%. 2.18 Handling of playback mode Nothing is specified regarding the playback mode and automatic playback (the function for displaying images automatically immediately after they are shot). 2.19 Shooting intervals Shooting shall begin 30 seconds after the power is turned on. During that 30-second interval, the flash mode setting, zoom operation and other preparations for shooting shall be made. Thereafter, shooting shall proceed at a rate of one picture every 30 seconds. If 30 seconds is not sufficient for initialization, or if the camera is not ready for shooting 30 seconds after a shot, shooting shall resume immediately after the camera reaches its ready state. 2.20 Power off frequency and intervals (see Explanatory Notes) Power shall be turned off after every 10th picture has been shot and processed. The interval before the next power-on shall be as much time as needed, without affecting battery life (i.e. so that any additional off time will not change the measurement results). It shall be the responsibility of each manufacturer to determine the appropriate length of off time.

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12-20-2021, 05:56 AM	#2
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,633	Comparing the testing regime as described with how you use your camera should tell you how relevant the CIPA results are to you. However, if all cameras are tested for CIPA figures in the same way, at least you can have an idea how long one camera is going to last on a single charge compared to another in the same circumstances. But only an idea.

12-20-2021, 07:51 AM	#3
Mooncatt Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: May 2020 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,373	Standardized testing is for comparison between products, not how those products will react in your specific situation. CIPA rating is only one of many tools you should be using to evaluate a potential purchase. In my case, I don't even care about it because I can always swap batteries when needed. If you are doing something like time lapse photography and rely heavily on battery life, then that rating may mean a lot to you.

12-20-2021, 07:51 AM	#4
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,241 Original Poster	Originally posted by StiffLegged However, if all cameras are tested for CIPA figures in the same way, at least you can have an idea how long one camera is going to last on a single charge compared to another in the same circumstances Well, CIPA isn't a good indicator because it doesn't take into account how much power is used by the camera when it's not taking pictures. So if I'd walk for a day in Rome, with the camera always ready for taking a picture, for some cameras the battery will be drained in 2 hours, while for other cameras with the same CIPA rating a fully charged battery will last the whole day. Based on interval shooting, at a rate of one exposure every 2 seconds, my K1 could take as many as 10 000 pictures on one battery, but if it stays powered for 6 hours I may be able to take only 10 pictures. Shooting 10 pictures at a rate of 1 picture every 30 seconds and then switching off the camera is not how I use cameras, I usually leave the camera running and I only take pictures when the opportunity arise, so for me the standby time is much more important.

12-20-2021, 07:53 AM	#5
Michail_P Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Kalymnos Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,006	I think the standard procedure is relatively challenging for an average amateur’s use. 1/2 flash shots, on/off 1/10 shots and fully functional, all combined?? Do I get it right ? I have two batteries and barely even changed the first during a hike or a walk.

12-20-2021, 08:03 AM	#6
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,241 Original Poster	Originally posted by Michail_P 1/2 flash shots, on/off 1/10 shots and fully functional, all combined?? Do I get it right ? I think the cycle is like: Power-On => wait => 10 shots for 5 minutes use (3 flash) => Power-off. It doesn't account for how much power is used when the camera is in standby. It looks like on the K1, picture taking consume nothing overall, and it's keeping the camera in standby that sucks the most out of the battery. So, if I'd set auto-power off to 1 minute and only wake up the camera then take a group of images already prepared in my mind's eye and with the viewfinder, I could have one fully charged battery last a week.

12-20-2021, 08:09 AM	#7
Michail_P Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Kalymnos Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,006	Originally posted by biz-engineer I think the cycle is like: Power-On => wait => 10 shots for 5 minutes use (3 flash) => Power-off. It doesn't account for how much power is used when the camera is in standby. It looks like on the K1, picture taking consume nothing overall, and it's keeping the camera in standby that sucks the most out of the battery. So, if I'd set auto-power off to 1 minute and only wake up the camera then take a group of images already prepared in my mind's eye and with the viewfinder, I could have one fully charged battery last a week. That’s interesting... so the standby mode is such a battery sucker??? I would think it’s the on /off that needs more energy.

12-20-2021, 08:44 AM	#8
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,241 Original Poster	Originally posted by Michail_P That’s interesting... so the standby mode is such a battery sucker??? I would think it’s the on /off that needs more energy. I'd be interested to know how much energy is burned by an Off-On cycle in Standby equivalent minutes, that way I could select the most balance Auto-power-off setting. Let's say, for example , if the On-Off cycle sucks as much as 10 minutes standby, than the 1 minute auto-power off isn't the best choice.

12-20-2021, 11:01 AM	#9
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,633	Well, if I’m in the market for a new camera and model A’s CIPA rating is 250 shots per charge versus model B’s 750 shots per charge, I might think B has better battery life. That’s all the use of the CIPA rating to me, nothing more in practice. I do carry three batteries anyway.

12-21-2021, 04:15 AM	#10
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,241 Original Poster	Originally posted by StiffLegged Well, if I’m in the market for a new camera and model A’s CIPA rating is 250 shots per charge versus model B’s 750 shots per charge, I might think B has better battery life. That's the problem. Model A may have more features than model B, but only 250 shots CIPA rating, whereas practically having a very small standby consumption, and so practically much more than 250 shots. So you make a purchase decision based on something you don't actually get if your style of shooting is not the same as the CIPA test. K1 is rated 600 or 700 shots CIPA, so the equivalent of the lastest Sony MILC models. But in practice , as I could observe my K1 can take 4000 shots with 1/3rd of battery charge since most consumption is due to time of use rather than exposures, and possibly mirrorless cameras with the same CIPA rating can take a third of the exposures.

12-21-2021, 04:27 AM	#11
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Seems like there are a couple of things. Cameras like the K-1, which don't have an on board flash, shouldn't be affected by the flash requirement. Whereas cameras that have on board flash will have a penalty by having to fire it every other shot. I think MILCs would tend to look better than maybe they are because this sort of shooting seems less like what I do in the real world. In practice, I look through the viewfinder a lot more than thirty seconds and actually take few shots. If I go out to do some landscape shooting, I probably only come back with 15 or 20 shots, but I spend a lot of time looking through the viewfinder, thinking about composition and things like that. With an SLR I can do all of that with the camera off, with an MILC, it will need to be on to run the EVF. In practice, I get fewer shots than CIPA says, but I don't take that many photos at a time either. 600 shots might be the number of photos I shoot in a couple of months (the exception is a vacation where I shoot that number over a week's time). You'll tend to get more shots per charge if you just lean on the shutter and take long bursts of photos than if you take few photos and do more visualizing.

12-21-2021, 05:18 AM	#12
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,241 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rondec If I go out to do some landscape shooting, I probably only come back with 15 or 20 shots, but I spend a lot of time looking through the viewfinder, thinking about composition and things like that. That's what I do. I have the camera switched-on all the time, and only take a picture when I spot an interesting composition, most of the time the camera is idle. Only when shooting moving subjects I used bursts.

12-21-2021, 11:48 PM	#13
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,241 Original Poster	As a matter of fact, CIPA rating for the K1 is 760 exposures, which corresponds to 380 minutes of camera operation. Pentax K1 manual says 340 minutes in playback mode. I measured about 6 hours (360 minutes). What this all means is that the consumption of used by exposures and on/off cycles is globally negligible relative to standby state consumption. So the most power saving setting would be the 1 minute auto-power off setting.