[retpgmr]

I recently watched a couple of YouTube videos where it was suggested I should turn OFF the D-Range Settings (Shadow & Highlight Correction) on my camera. Any opinions one way or the other? I currently have my settings on AUTO. Thanks for any input.

[GUB]

I recently watched a couple of YouTube videos where it was suggested I should turn OFF the D-Range Settings (Shadow & Highlight Correction) on my camera. Any opinions one way or the other? I currently have my settings on AUTO. Thanks for any input.

While you are at a skill level where you are using auto and saving to jpg then it makes sense to have the D-range settings activated.
If you are saving to raw and want to make your decisions later at the PC then disable it.

[Kobayashi.K]

With the D-Range settings you can tune the far ends of the histogram to have a full range from 0..255. This is a very effective feature for automatically optimizing the histogram when shooting JPEG. I have made two user settings (Ux) with D-range optimized, one for overcast weather and one for sunny weather.
Some other brands have this too, Nikon calls it 'Active D-lighting' and Olympus has a more direct 'Histogram settings' in the menus for selecting the endpoints in a range 0..255 directly, or alternatively in a small graph (Olympus EM1X).

[Kobayashi.K]

While you are at a skill level where you are using auto and saving to jpg then it makes sense to have the D-range settings activated.
If you are saving to raw and want to make your decisions later at the PC then disable it.

Shooting JPEG has nothing to do with skill level, but more about the desired end-result. When you want print big shooting RAW can give you better quality. When photos are shown on a monitor shooting RAW is a waste of time because JPEG has already the maximum dynamic range of the monitor. Actually all Pentax camera's are completely optimized for JPEG (Custom Image, D-Range) and the RAW option is only added for the 5% of shooters who really need it.

p.s. Well, actually let me tell you why Pentax has added the RAW option; the possibility of developing it into any of the Custom Image JPEG's, in camera or via the DCU app. When RAW+JPEG is saved and for example Monochrome is chosen initially, you still have the possibility to develop another (color) Custom Image type later. This is a really flexible and universal environment to make JPEG shooters happy

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Last edited by Kobayashi.K; 01-27-2022 at 08:11 AM.

[Andrea K]

Shooting JPEG has nothing to do with skill level, but more about the desired end-result. When you want print big shooting RAW can give you better quality. When photos are shown on a monitor shooting RAW is a waste of time because JPEG has already the maximum dynamic range of the monitor. Actually all Pentax camera's are completely optimized for JPEG (Custom Image, D-Range) and the RAW option is only added for the 5% of shooters who really need it.

p.s. Well, actually let me tell you why Pentax has added the RAW option; the possibility of developing it into any of the Custom Image JPEG's, in camera or via the DCU app. When RAW+JPEG is saved and for example Monochrome is chosen initially, you still have the possibility to develop another (color) Custom Image type later. This is a really flexible and universal environment to make JPEG shooters happy

I thought like you and I wish it were so. Time is my most precious asset and I hate wasting it developing RAWs but ....
From a JPEG shooter - DCU hides what the camera can do? - PentaxForums.com

The problem of the PENTAX jpeg isn't about colors or exposure... is about details (sharpness?).

[CristiC]

Shooting JPEG has nothing to do with skill level, but more about the desired end-result.

Possibly so, if the limited number of presets is all that you want. You may even modify presets in-camera. If that's all you want - there it is. Simple. Happy customer.

When you want print big shooting RAW can give you better quality.

True, but not linked to the output size (what is big?); also not linked to just printing. If you say only this: "RAW can give you better quality", in general, then I completely agree to that. There are multiple meanings for "better", depending on where the image is used. Different people - different opinions on what is good enough.

When photos are shown on a monitor shooting RAW is a waste of time because JPEG has already the maximum dynamic range of the monitor.

Let's stop at the word "because". Maybe it is a waste of time for some people, and it is definitely not a waste for all users. Think of the many-many features, all what you can do with post-processing software like Silkypix, Lightroom, CaptureOne, Darktable, Luminar and many others. You can modify parts of the picture, whereas the in-camera presets modify an entire picture at once. An entire industry needs RAW images (in various formats) as an input for post-processing software.

The reason "maximum dynamic range" is a less fortunate choice of words, but I understand your point of view. I disagree with that and ask you to consider "color spaces" like Adobe RGB, DCI-P3. The JPG image that you get from your camera typically uses the "sRGB" color space but there are many monitors capable of displaying other color spaces as well. If you shoot RAW, then you can later choose a conversion to a different color space.

Actually all Pentax camera's are completely optimized for JPEG (Custom Image, D-Range)

I find "completely optimized" very funny, but that's just me.

(...) and the RAW option is only added for the 5% of shooters who really need it.

OK. 5% of what number? I thought it is the other way round and that the majority of people who buy expensive DSLRs are at the same time using post-processing software. Some use more, some use less features of post-processing software, but they would not buy the camera if it had no RAW image output. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Kobayashi.K]

All this talk about RAW is completely irrelevant for most users. It is impossible to say if the photo is developed from RAW or a JPEG directly out of the camera when the photo is shown on an average monitor at a size of 500 px wide. Notice also that the dynamic range of even a good quality monitor only matches that of a JPEG when viewed in a pitch dark environment (hence the hoods on some Eizo monitors for graphic work), so JPEG is more than adequate in most circumstances. Each Custom Image has sliders for sharpness, saturation, hue and more so you can fine tune the appearance to your liking. It is also a misconception you cannot edit JPEG's in post, just avoid too dark shadows or overexposed highlights (for example by using D-Range) and/or safe as 'Flat' Custom Image type especially designed with editing in mind.

[Kobayashi.K]

... OK. 5% of what number? I thought it is the other way round and that the majority of people who buy expensive DSLRs are at the same time using post-processing software. Some use more, some use less features of post-processing software, but they would not buy the camera if it had no RAW image output. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In Japan almost 100% of all DSLR users shoot JPEG. And we all know how focused Pentax is on Japan. So, this fixation on RAW here in the west is an anomaly. There are other reasons to use a DSLR than RAW alone.

[The Squirrel Mafia]

If you strictly shoot jpegs and/or only process the RAW files with the Digital Camera Utility & nothing else, keep it on. You'll get slightly better dynamic range in some shots.

The only time D-range becomes an issue is when you try to develop a RAW file in a program like DxO or RawTherapee where they can't read the D-range settings. Then you'll end up getting a few jpegs with exposure issues. You'll be busting your head trying to figure out why the jpeg from the RAW converter looks nothing like the out of camera jpeg at times. There will be brightness & contrast issues with some of those jpegs. Not every jpeg will end up with issues, though. It's mainly with images where the D-range setting kicks pretty far in to either reduce shadows, reduce brightness, or both. Like when shooting in very bright, dark, or high contrast scenes. That is where some 3rd party RAW converters can struggle at times.

[Flanoman]

I’m liking the information about this subject, my question is that,
if dynamic range is switched on (K1ii in my case) and I shoot both raw and jpeg in the dual sd cards
Does this alter the raw file itself as I thought raw would always be well raw.
I do use rawtherappe as well for raws not jpegs

---------- Post added 01-27-22 at 02:04 PM ----------

I’m liking the information about this subject, my question is that,
if dynamic range is switched on (K1ii in my case) and I shoot both raw and jpeg in the dual sd cards
Does this alter the raw file itself as I thought raw would always be well raw.
I do use rawtherappe as well for raws not jpegs

I’ve reread you post squirrel and I see the point you make a bit clearer and thanks Kobyashi for explaining a few things

---------- Post added 01-27-22 at 02:16 PM ----------

I’m liking the information about this subject, my question is that,
if dynamic range is switched on (K1ii in my case) and I shoot both raw and jpeg in the dual sd cards
Does this alter the raw file itself as I thought raw would always be well raw.
I do use rawtherappe as well for raws not jpegs

---------- Post added 01-27-22 at 02:04 PM ----------



I’ve reread you post squirrel and I see the point you make a bit clearer and thanks Kobyashi for explaining a few things

Yes the penny has dropped with my tired skull😌, I’ve changed settings when that will affect exposure when I use dynamic range and that in itself will affect the raw files exposure 🙄

[CristiC]

I recently watched a couple of YouTube videos where it was suggested I should turn OFF the D-Range Settings (Shadow & Highlight Correction) on my camera. Any opinions one way or the other? I currently have my settings on AUTO. Thanks for any input.

What is the purpose of these two settings? Automatic adjustment (correction) to parts of an image. Like "fire & forget", no matter what scene.

To which parts?

• The Shadow Correction is applied to very dark parts, if they exist. If the image doesn't have those shadow areas, then no correction happens.
• The Highlight Correction is applied to very bright parts, if they exist. If the image doesn't have those highlight areas, then no correction happens.

Why apply corrections?

Without the Shadow Correction setting, the image would appear very underexposed, without details in the shadows. Not the entire image bad, just the dark part too dark. The rest of the image would look fine on the display, on a screen or on paper.

Without the Highlight Correction setting, the image would appear very overexposed, without details in the bright parts, such as in the sky. Details about the bright clouds would appear "blown out", too white, on the display, on a screen or on paper. The other parts of the final image would still look good.

Why does that happen? We humans see more detail with our eyes than the camera is able to capture in a single exposure. The "dynamic range" of our eyes (+brains) is larger than what the camera can see. What is too bright for the camera is put as pure white in the image and what is too dark for the camera is put as pure black in the image. But we want to see those details (in both shadows and highlights) in the final image, on any screen or printed on paper.

The trick how to get details back is done through tone mapping. It is a compromise, a middle way, a compression of tones. In reality we see way too many shades and hues and we put only some of them on paper (or on screen) in a clever way that looks realistic enough - through tone mapping.

As I said, it's an automatic adjustment to retain more image information, done even if it doesn't fit an artistic intent. Sometimes there is too much correction. In such cases, turn the setting off.

Beware, you need ISO 200 or higher, for the trick to function. It doesn't work at ISO 100.

You Tube

You Tube

Jpeg shooters: don't click on that:

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

[Photodana]

I believe the D-range settings menas prioritizing the measurements of the many points in Multi Segment metering. I havd made tests, that show small differences between Multi Segment and Centerweighted metering. The differences were about highlights. I hade a ingle D-range setting about highlights. I believe the D-range settings is what sets Multi Segment metering apart for Centerweighted Metering. Testing Centerweighted and Matrix metering | Testing Centerw? | Flickr

[CristiC]

Photodana, have you seen the youtube videos above? In Germany they say: Believing - means "not knowing".

Yes, there may be differences in the final JPG image, depending on how you set the metering, may it be center-weighted or multi-segment. It depends a lot on the scene that you are taking a picture of and it depends on your artistic intent too. Learn more about that setting. See when to use one and when not to use it. D-Range, the current topic here, is something else. There are two other settings in the menu system, one is called "Highlight Correction" and the other is called "Shadow Correction". These work in addition to the metering setting, they change something else, that depends a lot on the scene which you take a picture of. Read the posts above.

That link to Flickr is bad advice, a waste of time. Not anyone, who makes a nice chart, also knows what he is doing. Or maybe the purpose and context of that chart is not explained enough. Just ignore it. There are better sources to learn from.