Severe banding in night shots

**Oakland Rob** · 03-14-2022, 09:13 PM

I’m getting severe banding in K1ii night shots, using either a 24mm Rokinon or the 15-30 2.8. With a uv filter and without. DNGs and jpeg. Been doing night stuff forever and don’t think I changed anything. Doesn’t change in post; not just a bad preview. It looks as bad on the camera as on my iPad, and this jpeg is the same as the dng.

Ideas?

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Last edited by Oakland Rob; 03-14-2022 at 09:20 PM.

**GUB** · 03-14-2022, 11:06 PM

That is strange! It doesn't look like 8bit tonal banding. Did this happen on more than one night?

pschlute · 03-15-2022, 12:33 AM

Can you post a link to the original DNG file

**LukaszWro** · 03-15-2022, 12:54 AM

Same with me, but not night shots. Bright day and clear sky looked same. Is it happened to you after latest upgrade?

othar · 03-15-2022, 12:58 AM

I usually get banding like this when I mess up pp in combination with compression added by exporting to jpg, but not in the original dng image.
Have you looked at the dng image on your PC too (or do you use the iPad for pp)? As for the dng looking bad already on the camera display -> it gives you a preview with the current jpg settings and not an unprocessed view of the image as far as I know

BigMackCam · 03-15-2022, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by Oakland Rob

I’m getting severe banding in K1ii night shots, using either a 24mm Rokinon or the 15-30 2.8. With a uv filter and without. DNGs and jpeg. Been doing night stuff forever and don’t think I changed anything. Doesn’t change in post; not just a bad preview. It looks as bad on the camera as on my iPad, and this jpeg is the same as the dng.

I'm wondering if this is a profiling (colour matrix / lookup table) issue - either with the input and/or output profiles... though it's strange you're getting (exactly?) the same results with DNG and JPEG, previewed on the camera and viewed on your iPad. A few questions:

1) What JPEG "style" did you select (Natural, Bright, etc.)?
2) What raw conversion software are you using?
3) In that raw conversion software, what input and output profiles are you using?
4) If you export to 16-bit TIFF and view that on your iPad, do you still see the banding?
5) With the DNG, if you use in-camera raw development, does adjustment of any settings alter the banding in any way?
6) Did you shoot with accurate exposure, or boost the exposure in post-processing, either in-camera or in your raw conversion software?

If you've a way to share the DNG file and don't mind doing so, I'd be happy to do some more in-depth investigation...

**LukaszWro** · 03-15-2022, 03:51 AM - **1 Like**

I have similar banding for these two photos. Havent checked in dcu or other software, but i use rawtherapee.

iCloud

edit: I checked in DCU. Banding has gone. So definitely I have something wrong with profile. Dont know what exactly, because I work on it long time and it was ok up to that time.

Last edited by LukaszWro; 03-15-2022 at 04:08 AM.

**LukaszWro** · 03-15-2022, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by LukaszWro

I have similar banding for these two photos. Havent checked in dcu or other software, but i use rawtherapee.

iCloud

edit: I checked in DCU. Banding has gone. So definitely I have something wrong with profile. Dont know what exactly, because I work on it long time and it was ok up to that time.

But on the top, there is strange pixelizatation. This is ISO 100, and maybe it struggles with to much DR. Details are fine, only where is clear sky that change it shade.

BigMackCam · 03-15-2022, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by LukaszWro

I have similar banding for these two photos. Havent checked in dcu or other software, but i use rawtherapee.

...

edit: I checked in DCU. Banding has gone. So definitely I have something wrong with profile. Dont know what exactly, because I work on it long time and it was ok up to that time.

Firstly, I'd get rid of all your RawTherapee settings for the image by deleting the relevant .pp3 sidecar file (back it up somewhere if you might want it later). Set the input profile to Camera Standard, which is just a basic matrix; working profile to ProPhoto, and the output profile to RTv4_sRGB. Use "Auto match tone curve" to set the tone curve. See how it looks after that

**Mooncatt** · 03-15-2022, 05:24 AM

I noticed this recently on some of my photos. I was shooting some vehicles at night with my k3 II and 50mm 1.8 and many headlight halos had severe banding. I rarely use that lens, and didn't have a problem when switching to my 35mm macro and SMC 15mm Limited. Could the lens really be a cause for this?

Work has me out of town for a few days, but I'm subscribing to this thread so I can get back to it later and try some of the tips. I shoot DNG only, and don't recall if the camera preview had the banding. I also use RAW Therapee, which is where I noticed it. I'll try that camera profile tip as well.

**Oakland Rob** · 03-15-2022, 09:24 AM

Update. The jpeg above was produced in-camera, with whatever the default settings are (usually don’t do that. It was shot in raw). Link to the raw here: Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

The previews all show banding. If I run them through Lr on my iPad they seem OK. As noted, it occurs with different lenses. I see the Adobe default profile on my iPad and it seems to work OK. I don’t recall ever getting such obnoxious previews during night shooting before; hard enough to chimp at night to check focus etc without this too.

pschlute · 03-15-2022, 09:50 AM

I can confirm there is no banding inherent in the DNG file. The only thing I can suggest is to re-check your camera image profile settings, as these will affect the preview jpeg image.

BigMackCam · 03-15-2022, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Oakland Rob

Update. The jpeg above was produced in-camera, with whatever the default settings are (usually don’t do that. It was shot in raw). Link to the raw here: Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

The previews all show banding. If I run them through Lr on my iPad they seem OK. As noted, it occurs with different lenses. I see the Adobe default profile on my iPad and it seems to work OK. I don’t recall ever getting such obnoxious previews during night shooting before; hard enough to chimp at night to check focus etc without this too.

A few things, Rob...

1) I see no obvious banding with the raw file loaded into RawTherapee using the Camera Standard profile, or in Lightroom 6 using Adobe Standard or the camera's Embedded profile
2) When opening the file in DCU5, I note that the file looks very under-exposed and there are some pretty extreme Custom Image settings embedded in the file, which may be contributing to what you see in-camera. Specifically - Image Finishing is set to Bleach Bypass; High / Low Key has been adjusted all the way to the left; Contrast is set to maximum; Toning is set to Green. If these were the settings used when you developed the raw into a JPEG in-camera - and I believe they are, since that's what DCU pulled from the file - then it's quite possible that's what caused the banding when you developed and viewed the image on your K-1. Perhaps you recognise these settings from a previous shoot for something else?
3) Pushing exposure of the raw in DCU with the above settings in place - or brightening the resulting JPEG in other image editing software - does start to show much more banding. This isn't unexpected... pushing exposure considerably in under-exposed gradual tone transitions such as dark skies will often show banding. When possible, it's better to expose correctly, or expose to the right and reduce exposure / brightness in post.

**clackers** · 03-15-2022, 03:47 PM

ISO 200, Rob!

You'd need to post process something that underexposed very carefully, mate.

**Oakland Rob** · 03-15-2022, 04:56 PM - **1 Like**

The issue is that the banding shows immediately in camera when shooting raw…not just in the photo I processed.

Do the raw developing settings in camera in review mode affect ALL previews? Even when not manually converting to Jpeg in camera??? Aargh. I thought the right side direction button only applied to jpeg shooting, not dng previews. That is the problem; thanks! Must have hit it in the dark. Thanks all!

03-15-2022, 11:35 AM	#13
BigMackCam - Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 18,745	Originally posted by Oakland Rob Update. The jpeg above was produced in-camera, with whatever the default settings are (usually don’t do that. It was shot in raw). Link to the raw here: Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online. The previews all show banding. If I run them through Lr on my iPad they seem OK. As noted, it occurs with different lenses. I see the Adobe default profile on my iPad and it seems to work OK. I don’t recall ever getting such obnoxious previews during night shooting before; hard enough to chimp at night to check focus etc without this too. A few things, Rob... 1) I see no obvious banding with the raw file loaded into RawTherapee using the Camera Standard profile, or in Lightroom 6 using Adobe Standard or the camera's Embedded profile 2) When opening the file in DCU5, I note that the file looks very under-exposed and there are some pretty extreme Custom Image settings embedded in the file, which may be contributing to what you see in-camera. Specifically - Image Finishing is set to Bleach Bypass; High / Low Key has been adjusted all the way to the left; Contrast is set to maximum; Toning is set to Green. If these were the settings used when you developed the raw into a JPEG in-camera - and I believe they are, since that's what DCU pulled from the file - then it's quite possible that's what caused the banding when you developed and viewed the image on your K-1. Perhaps you recognise these settings from a previous shoot for something else? 3) Pushing exposure of the raw in DCU with the above settings in place - or brightening the resulting JPEG in other image editing software - does start to show much more banding. This isn't unexpected... pushing exposure considerably in under-exposed gradual tone transitions such as dark skies will often show banding. When possible, it's better to expose correctly, or expose to the right and reduce exposure / brightness in post. Last edited by BigMackCam; 03-15-2022 at 12:57 PM.

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03-14-2022, 11:06 PM	#2
GUB Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Wanganui Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,260	That is strange! It doesn't look like 8bit tonal banding. Did this happen on more than one night?

03-15-2022, 12:33 AM	#3
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,276	Can you post a link to the original DNG file

03-15-2022, 12:54 AM	#4
LukaszWro Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Gdańsk Photos: Albums Posts: 165	Same with me, but not night shots. Bright day and clear sky looked same. Is it happened to you after latest upgrade?

03-15-2022, 12:58 AM	#5
othar Pentaxian Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 2,654	I usually get banding like this when I mess up pp in combination with compression added by exporting to jpg, but not in the original dng image. Have you looked at the dng image on your PC too (or do you use the iPad for pp)? As for the dng looking bad already on the camera display -> it gives you a preview with the current jpg settings and not an unprocessed view of the image as far as I know

03-15-2022, 02:28 AM	#6
BigMackCam - Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 18,745	Originally posted by Oakland Rob I’m getting severe banding in K1ii night shots, using either a 24mm Rokinon or the 15-30 2.8. With a uv filter and without. DNGs and jpeg. Been doing night stuff forever and don’t think I changed anything. Doesn’t change in post; not just a bad preview. It looks as bad on the camera as on my iPad, and this jpeg is the same as the dng. I'm wondering if this is a profiling (colour matrix / lookup table) issue - either with the input and/or output profiles... though it's strange you're getting (exactly?) the same results with DNG and JPEG, previewed on the camera and viewed on your iPad. A few questions: 1) What JPEG "style" did you select (Natural, Bright, etc.)? 2) What raw conversion software are you using? 3) In that raw conversion software, what input and output profiles are you using? 4) If you export to 16-bit TIFF and view that on your iPad, do you still see the banding? 5) With the DNG, if you use in-camera raw development, does adjustment of any settings alter the banding in any way? 6) Did you shoot with accurate exposure, or boost the exposure in post-processing, either in-camera or in your raw conversion software? If you've a way to share the DNG file and don't mind doing so, I'd be happy to do some more in-depth investigation...

03-15-2022, 03:51 AM - 1 Like	#7
LukaszWro Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2020 Location: Gdańsk Photos: Albums Posts: 165	I have similar banding for these two photos. Havent checked in dcu or other software, but i use rawtherapee. iCloud edit: I checked in DCU. Banding has gone. So definitely I have something wrong with profile. Dont know what exactly, because I work on it long time and it was ok up to that time. Last edited by LukaszWro; 03-15-2022 at 04:08 AM.

03-15-2022, 05:07 AM	#9
BigMackCam - Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 18,745	Originally posted by LukaszWro I have similar banding for these two photos. Havent checked in dcu or other software, but i use rawtherapee. ... edit: I checked in DCU. Banding has gone. So definitely I have something wrong with profile. Dont know what exactly, because I work on it long time and it was ok up to that time. Firstly, I'd get rid of all your RawTherapee settings for the image by deleting the relevant .pp3 sidecar file (back it up somewhere if you might want it later). Set the input profile to Camera Standard, which is just a basic matrix; working profile to ProPhoto, and the output profile to RTv4_sRGB. Use "Auto match tone curve" to set the tone curve. See how it looks after that

03-15-2022, 05:24 AM	#10
Mooncatt Site Supporter Join Date: May 2020 Location: Wisconsin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,089	I noticed this recently on some of my photos. I was shooting some vehicles at night with my k3 II and 50mm 1.8 and many headlight halos had severe banding. I rarely use that lens, and didn't have a problem when switching to my 35mm macro and SMC 15mm Limited. Could the lens really be a cause for this? Work has me out of town for a few days, but I'm subscribing to this thread so I can get back to it later and try some of the tips. I shoot DNG only, and don't recall if the camera preview had the banding. I also use RAW Therapee, which is where I noticed it. I'll try that camera profile tip as well.

03-15-2022, 09:24 AM	#11
Oakland Rob Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Bay Area California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 770 Original Poster	Update. The jpeg above was produced in-camera, with whatever the default settings are (usually don’t do that. It was shot in raw). Link to the raw here: Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online. The previews all show banding. If I run them through Lr on my iPad they seem OK. As noted, it occurs with different lenses. I see the Adobe default profile on my iPad and it seems to work OK. I don’t recall ever getting such obnoxious previews during night shooting before; hard enough to chimp at night to check focus etc without this too.

03-15-2022, 09:50 AM	#12
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,276	I can confirm there is no banding inherent in the DNG file. The only thing I can suggest is to re-check your camera image profile settings, as these will affect the preview jpeg image.

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03-15-2022, 03:47 PM	#14
clackers Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 15,979	ISO 200, Rob! You'd need to post process something that underexposed very carefully, mate.

03-15-2022, 04:56 PM - 1 Like	#15
Oakland Rob Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Bay Area California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 770 Original Poster	The issue is that the banding shows immediately in camera when shooting raw…not just in the photo I processed. Do the raw developing settings in camera in review mode affect ALL previews? Even when not manually converting to Jpeg in camera??? Aargh. I thought the right side direction button only applied to jpeg shooting, not dng previews. That is the problem; thanks! Must have hit it in the dark. Thanks all!