[kayasaman]

Hi guys,

recently there isn't much astro to do as all the objects are out of my FoV so I focused my time on linear images and learning how the camera works without using AT and Bulb mode.

I must say that I'm by no means an AF guy... I really love MF and my favorite lenses out of the 4 lenses I have are the Irix 150mm macro and the Samyang 24mm.


A few days back a friend of mine shared some images of a hawk with me (using a Canon with long telephoto lens and gimbal), which peaked my interest and curiosity in how to use the camera with AF mode and on moving subjects.

For the last 3 days I have been playing around with my FA*300mm f/4.5 lens (yep screwdrive AF) and miraculously all the images are out of focus.... In fact I had the same issue with the DFA28-105mm that I eventually gave up on the lens because it would hunt more then lock on target.


Reading a lot of web pages on shooting birds, I put the metering mode into Spot and the AF mode to Spot too (I tried both AF-S and AF-C) but it seems that in each case the target is blurred somewhat.


This article: Solving AF Problems - 8 Common Autofocus Problems - And Their Solutions - PentaxForums.com

discusses the AF issues in the K3 mark 1 I believe... while I'm using the K1 mark 2 body.


Basically samples of my results are these:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZWl-EIj-WxRs_fXwC16C8xW8MwJALKSg/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U8IiB61yLsBOXIcFJzL7ZOHRAl5NXUbK/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ywnGwVDCspLBuL1GM8BGgtq8VGOZHMI8/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eDsCoE5ZpB-qWtchsRGKmZW3GDpRaOrl/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uE7Q8X4nnkjlMEXLnDiYdWnYsCtyOFGd/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1STJZqcXdf4BxkPp2dkRfRHeWa2MPsciI/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N5-MCjvOfHvdc-6AFrhGYYMG3fpQr17j/view?usp=sharing


I set the Drive Mode to ContinuousH and the shutter was at 1/3200. What could the issue be??


Fine, the K1 doesn't have the 100's of AF points like canikon or tracking options and probably not even the extra processing chips that the higher end models use, but 3 days of trying and not a single image in focus?


The lens is fine! If I use manual focus mode with Focus Peaking in LV, the subject is sharp; it's just AF that doesn't seem to focus properly??

AF adjustment is set to None (option 1) so it should basically just work no?


Could it be that my subjects are quite small relative to the lens focal length which is giving the AF issues? Though the planes are much larger so they shouldn't provide a problem.....

[ramseybuckeye]

Shooting birds in flight is not easy, it takes practice. I used to do it the way you are doing it, once in a while might get one. Now I use at least 9 points and AFC, and get better results, but whenever you use more than one point the camera is choosing, so you can still miss. The thing with using the multiple points is that you have a much easier time of catching the bird in the sky, which can be very difficult with a single point. And the of course birds are different sizes, flying at different speeds, and only a few have predictable flight patterns, meaning a Canada goose is much easier to catch than a barn swallow. There will be some people with much better advice here shortly. good luck!

[KiloHotelphoto]

I would recommend using as many focus points as you can AFC and stop down to F8 to give yourself some depth of field so if the camera focuses on the wing you can get lucky and get the head in focus also. Your shutter speed of 1/3200 should be fast enough unless you’re try for small fast birds like swallows or kestrels.

The K1 isn’t the best for BIF but you can do it, it just takes more attempts. A good fast focusing lens will also help. I only used the DA560 and 300 F4 with the K1 and neither of those were fast focusing. The 150-450 and the new plm lenses seem to get better reviews.

[kayasaman]

Thanks for the responses!

Yep, I am down at f/8 but even the planes are coming out blurry. Not sure if my Google Drive links are working as there are a few examples there.

What I have figured out is that the Bluetit is a very difficult bird to catch. It's small and fast. I did get some areal shots of one but they're all blurred. Not sure if it's focus or 1/3200 is not fast enough?

_IMG9668-4.jpg - Google Drive


Seagulls are much larger and when harrying give a lot of time to setup, but still only managed this:

_IMG0055.jpg - Google Drive


This is the typical result for a plane:

_IMG9458.jpg - Google Drive



I will try using 9 point or full 33 point AF in AF-C mode and see what happens.... though my issue maybe that the object is about as big as the focusing spot and that's what's throwing the AF off?? I mean the lens window is showing past infinity; if I manually focused, infinity or around would have been fine. It's like it's over compensating or over-focusing if there is such a thing....??

[Des]

Objects in flight, small fast-moving ones most of all, are difficult to capture, particularly using single point AF. Even with multi-point AF, there might not be an AF point where the subject is.

I'd go back a step first. If you are used to MF, practise your AF. Start with static subjects to be sure you get used to aligning the subject with the AF point. This will also help you determine whether the lens is consistently front- or back-focusing. If it is, use a target and make the necessary fine adjustments.

Then try perched birds or animals that are moving around intermittently to practise getting a particular point on them. Birds are often very still when they perch, even if they move off quickly. Pre-focusing can help - the FA*300 is slow-focusing, particularly compared with DC or PLM lenses (I have the same lens). For this, I would use a single point - I used to use centre point only, but now I use select AF point. I usually choose one just above the centre, to the right or the left, where the eye is most likely to be. I find this can be faster and more accurate than centre point focus-and-recompose. (If the subject is small enough in the frame that you will need to crop anyway, centre-point is OK.)

When you feel confident with this, then try the aircraft. Commercial aircraft should not be too difficult unless very far away because their movement is even and predictable. (A fighter plane at an airshow is another story!)

Then move on to large, slow-moving birds. Then smaller/faster one. Expect a diminishing hit rate as you go up the scale.

The further and smaller the subject, the more you are at the mercy of atmospheric conditions. They reduce focus accuracy and also mean less sharpness.

You need to be realistic about your expectations. A 300mm lens on a FF sensor is just the beginning for telephoto coverage. Even 300mm on APS-C is often not enough to get a bird that fills a significant part of the frame.

One more thing. Your sample shots show many many dust spots on the sensor. It needs a thorough cleaning - probably wet cleaning. If there is that much dust in the camera, it would not be surprising if the phase-detect sensor is also dirty. I would get it professionally cleaned.

[chrism888]

Ensure your panning technique is up to scratch, like swinging a golf club, you need to follow through, rotate through the hips and have a smooth trigger finger, don't jab the button, Look up Back Button Focusing ( BBF ) a worthwhile technique to master, and then is practice, practice and more practice.

Generally I use BBF, as high a shutter speed as poss without to high an ISO ( 400 or maybe 800 max ) and somewhere between F5.6 and F8 on either a K1 or K3iii linked to a Pentax 150 - 450 handheld.

Have a look at my web site and " The Aviator Gallery "

[KiloHotelphoto]

With the planes you also have to remember it's miles away and you're shooting through a lot of atmospheric conditions, you will not get the sharpest of images.

And if the object is the size of a focus point it's just to far away to get a good shot.

[ramseybuckeye]

Thanks for the responses!

Yep, I am down at f/8 but even the planes are coming out blurry. Not sure if my Google Drive links are working as there are a few examples there.

What I have figured out is that the Bluetit is a very difficult bird to catch. It's small and fast. I did get some areal shots of one but they're all blurred. Not sure if it's focus or 1/3200 is not fast enough?

_IMG9668-4.jpg - Google Drive

Your shutter speed is not a problem, I don't think I've ever shot at a shutter speed anywhere near that high. I can't see any EXIF data on your shots, what type of ISO are you using? A high ISO can be OK, until you have to crop, then details can be gone. Here's an example of a bird pretty much in focus, but with motion blur from the shutter speed in the wings and feet, 1/500, f5.6, ISO 125, KP with DA*300 and DA 1.4 converter (420mm). I was shooting shutter priority with a variable ISO, probably 100-2000 or 100-3200, because I was shooting birds in the marsh grass and this female boat-tailed grackle took off.

[kayasaman]

Your shutter speed is not a problem, I don't think I've ever shot at a shutter speed anywhere near that high. I can't see any EXIF data on your shots, what type of ISO are you using? A high ISO can be OK, until you have to crop, then details can be gone. Here's an example of a bird pretty much in focus, but with motion blur from the shutter speed in the wings and feet, 1/500, f5.6, ISO 125, KP with DA*300 and DA 1.4 converter (420mm). I was shooting shutter priority with a variable ISO, probably 100-2000 or 100-3200, because I was shooting birds in the marsh grass and this female boat-tailed grackle took off.

There is EXIF data in the images but basically as said: shutter 1/3200, f/8, ISO 1600

---------- Post added 04-24-22 at 04:30 AM ----------

Ensure your panning technique is up to scratch, like swinging a golf club, you need to follow through, rotate through the hips and have a smooth trigger finger, don't jab the button, Look up Back Button Focusing ( BBF ) a worthwhile technique to master, and then is practice, practice and more practice.

Generally I use BBF, as high a shutter speed as poss without to high an ISO ( 400 or maybe 800 max ) and somewhere between F5.6 and F8 on either a K1 or K3iii linked to a Pentax 150 - 450 handheld.

Have a look at my web site and " The Aviator Gallery "

Just checked! That's pretty amazing

Were all these done using the K1?

---------- Post added 04-24-22 at 04:38 AM ----------

Objects in flight, small fast-moving ones most of all, are difficult to capture, particularly using single point AF. Even with multi-point AF, there might not be an AF point where the subject is.

I'd go back a step first. If you are used to MF, practise your AF. Start with static subjects to be sure you get used to aligning the subject with the AF point. This will also help you determine whether the lens is consistently front- or back-focusing. If it is, use a target and make the necessary fine adjustments.

Then try perched birds or animals that are moving around intermittently to practise getting a particular point on them. Birds are often very still when they perch, even if they move off quickly. Pre-focusing can help, because the FA*300 and is slow-focusing, particularly compared with DC or PLM lenses (I have the same lens). For this, I would use a single point - I used to use centre point only, but now I use select AF point. I usually choose one just above the centre, to the right or the left, where the eye is most likely to be. I find this can be faster and more accurate than centre point focus-and-recompose. (If the subject is small enough in the frame that you will need to crop anyway, centre-point is OK.)

When you feel confident with this, then try the aircraft. They should not be too difficult unless very far away because their movement is even and predictable.

Then move on to large, slow-moving birds. Then smaller/faster one. Expect a diminishing hit rate as you go up the scale.

The further and smaller the subject, the more you are at the mercy of atmospheric conditions. They reduce focus accuracy and also mean less sharpness.

You need to be realistic about your expectations. A 300mm lens on a FF sensor is just the beginning for telephoto coverage. Even 300mm on APS-C is often not enough to get a bird that fills a significant part of the frame.

One more thing. Your sample shots show many many dust spots on the sensor. It needs a thorough cleaning - probably wet cleaning. If there is that much dust in the camera, it would not be surprising if the phase-detect sensor is also dirty. I would get it professionally cleaned.

I'll have a look a buying a cleaning kit. I am painfully aware of the dust spots. It's strange as I have not even had the camera for a year and only really used for astro up till now. Bulb mode and intervalometer focused on a DSO.

I agree that the 300mm maybe a little short. After all I bought it from a friend here at PF for astro imaging. It has given me some great images of the M31 galaxy and M42:

Orion-300mm_siril_RT.jpg - Google Drive

Andromeda_300mm_flat_1294_siril_2_gimp_gimp.jpg - Google Drive


unfortunately there's a lot of LP in my backyard which degraded the quality of shots. PixInsight has helped a lot in the meantime but still need to scout out a better location.

[35mmfilmfan]

A cheap cleaning kit may not be ideal - I used one once, and still had to pay for the sensor to be professionally cleaned ! What I do do is use a Rocket Blower EVERY time I change lenses, on the sensor and the AF sensor - this is as well as the regular monthly clean and battery-charging routine. Don't forget to use the blower on the rear element of the lenses as well - dust can lurk in there biding its time before leaping onto your nice clean sensor.

As to AF fine adjust, you may find it worthwhile to set up a testing session with the lenses you use, and adjust the AF accordingly. After all, if the lens does not focus successfully on a stationary specified subject, it is asking a lot of it to focus on a mobile one.

[kayasaman]

A cheap cleaning kit may not be ideal - I used one once, and still had to pay for the sensor to be professionally cleaned ! What I do do is use a Rocket Blower EVERY time I change lenses, on the sensor and the AF sensor - this is as well as the regular monthly clean and battery-charging routine. Don't forget to use the blower on the rear element of the lenses as well - dust can lurk in there biding its time before leaping onto your nice clean sensor.

As to AF fine adjust, you may find it worthwhile to set up a testing session with the lenses you use, and adjust the AF accordingly. After all, if the lens does not focus successfully on a stationary specified subject, it is asking a lot of it to focus on a mobile one.

That might be a good idea too to test the lens on a stationary subject.


I played around with the Catch-In function today using manual focus. Though the results are similar.... then again it's using the AF sensor which didn't dawn on me until later.


AF with 9 point tests are these:

_IMG0243.jpg - Google Drive

EXIF: TAv mode shutter-1/1000s, f/8, iso 160


_IMG0268.jpg - Google Drive

EXIF: TAv mode shutter-1/1000s, f/8, iso 1600


when zooming in (50% and 100%) I think the subjects are still a little soft, this may not be anything to do with the AF but the atmospheric condition coupled with the 300mm focal length which is a little short compared to the subects size in frame


Also, it might be that I am trying to compare Pentax lenses to my Samyang and Irix which are both clinically sharp. The Pentax lenses maybe a little softer by design??


As for sensor cleaning, currently I have nothing to clean the lenses or sensor with so it will be well worth investing in something. Would anyone be able to suggest anything outside of the 'Rocket Blower'? With the kits you usually get things like wipes and carbon pen etc.... looking around VSGO seem to be popular but I don't know?

[Des]

I agree that the 300mm maybe a little short. After all I bought it from a friend here at PF for astro imaging. It has given me some great images of the M31 galaxy and M42:

Those are terrific.

when zooming in (50% and 100%) I think the subjects are still a little soft, this may not be anything to do with the AF but the atmospheric condition coupled with the 300mm focal length which is a little short compared to the subects size in frame

Yes, I think so too.

Also, it might be that I am trying to compare Pentax lenses to my Samyang and Irix which are both clinically sharp. The Pentax lenses maybe a little softer by design??

The FA*300 is an excellent lens. My copy is really sharp, when used within reasonable limits.






With patience you can get decent birds in flight shots too - not swallows, but spoonbills anyway ...

As for sensor cleaning, currently I have nothing to clean the lenses or sensor with so it will be well worth investing in something. Would anyone be able to suggest anything outside of the 'Rocket Blower'? With the kits you usually get things like wipes and carbon pen etc.... looking around VSGO seem to be popular but I don't know?

The rocket blower is always the starting point. For when that's not enough, I've tried a number of different wet cleaning solutions, as well as gel kits, brushes (cleaned with compressed air) and other gizmos. They all have advantages and disadvantages. With stubborn spots, I find I need to come back to wet cleaning eventually.

The VSGO wet cleaning klt is excellent. I tried it when I couldn't get Eclipse fluid - the fluid in this kit is just as good and the swabs seem good quality. Just don't try to economise when using the swabs - one use per side only!

[mikesbike]

Panning technique is very important, and practice is essential to gain adequate capability.

It is also important to be able to frame your subject so as not to be so very small in the frame, making it far more difficult for the AF system to sense it and to lock on to it.

[kayasaman]

Here's quite a clear gull I caught earlier. I lifted the shadows in RawTherapee as well as a few small tweaks for sharpening and local contrast (program default values) and added some vibrance:

_IMG0257.jpg - Google Drive

EXIF is iso 400 , 1/1000s , f/8

AF was used with 9 points (AFS-C) and metering on spot, drive mode was continuous H.

Actually I was quite lucky as it was flying towards me and ended up quite large (relatively) in frame.


What do you guys think in terms of focus? Has the AF system managed to nail it or is it slightly soft?

[bspn]

I was reviewing some older photos and found this one of four Sandhill cranes I shot in 2019 that show the K1 very capable of sharp images of birds in flight. I have lots of success with the K1 and now even more with the K3iii. I opted to post this as an example of the subject being a slower flying bird(s). This was shot at 450mm and is a 100% crop, resize, and no sharpening adjustment.

Shot at 1/1000 f6.3 ISO 250.