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02-18-2016, 09:34 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'm still mystified. I recently got a Super Tak 35 3.5. I put it on the camera (with the adapter) left the camera on AV, set the lens to 5.6 pressed the shutter release, and voila, perfect exposure on my K-3. What am I missing?
An aperture lever that holds the lens wide open. As much as I hate to say it, maybe the solution for the folks who really really want to shoot K/M lenses without green-button metering is to remove the aperture levers and turn them into (adapted) M42s.

02-18-2016, 09:34 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
This isn't the camera brand you're looking for...
Jedi mind tricks?
02-18-2016, 09:36 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
I'm sure one of the "hands-on" reviews would have mentioned it if the linkage were there.
If they had uncrippled the K-mount, I could entertain visions of kenspo parkour-ing his panicked way through the streets and buildings of Tokyo, Pentax Ninjas hot on his heels, screaming into his cellphone "IT'S UNCRIPPLED! TELL THE WORLD IT'S UNCRIPPLED!"

If we want that aperture linkage back, something's gotta give. I would give my eye teeth to find out what that is, if I hadn't already had them excised years ago.

By Ricoh's own account, the K-1 is the result of ONE Pentaxian telling the developers what he wanted and what was missing. Perhaps it can happen again. Until then, we can go with what we know works... or hope for a firmware option to give us stop down on the half-press (which won't matter for K and M lenses, since they focus manually anyway).

Is there a Pentax film SLR that has both the aperture coupler and the power zoom contacts? If there isn't, that would explain why they never tried to put it back, and possibly why they took it out. They can't move the power zoom/SDM/DC contacts now because there are already too many existing lenses that rely on them, and they'd need enough travel on the arm to signal the right number of stops for f/1.2 and f/1.4 lenses.

One thing's for sure - any hope of getting auto stop-down put back in for Takumars is dead and gone.
02-18-2016, 09:49 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
By Ricoh's own account, the K-1 is the result of ONE Pentaxian telling the developers what he wanted and what was missing. Perhaps it can happen again.
It makes a nice story, but there were Pentaxians clamoring for a FF K-mount at every convention every year for the past decade. And for those who would listen, Pentax's response on FF went from "we have no plans" to "we are considering it" to "we are working on it" to "here's a plastic mockup". The response on uncrippling has been consistently "no" - sometimes prefaced with "that's a very nice idea", which is a well-known Japanese business polite-ism for "hell, no". If they were going to do it, the language would change, and it never has.

02-18-2016, 09:51 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Is there a Pentax film SLR that has both the aperture coupler and the power zoom contacts?
Of course there is. KAF2 was not a crippled mount when introduced in 1991. There were only 4 crippled film bodies...MZ-30/ZX-30, MZ-50/ZX-50, MZ-60/ZX-60, *ist

When the *ist D was introduced it had a crippled mount like the *ist. Pentax didn't even provide for stop down metering at first. But the uncrippled mount on DSLR ship sailed when the *ist D was designed.

I would much rather Ricoh devote resources to making the aperture electronically controlled. Maybe Sigma would make some new lenses for K-mount if they did.
02-18-2016, 09:58 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
An aperture lever that holds the lens wide open. As much as I hate to say it, maybe the solution for the folks who really really want to shoot K/M lenses without green-button metering is to remove the aperture levers and turn them into (adapted) M42s.
Oh you mean the pin that the Nex user that previously owned my lens had cut off so it wouldn't interfere with his adapter? ... I wondered what that was for. SO there's my advice... cut it off, pretend like it's not there. It works for me.
02-18-2016, 11:14 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
If they had uncrippled the K-mount, I could entertain visions of kenspo parkour-ing his panicked way through the streets and buildings of Tokyo, Pentax Ninjas hot on his heels, screaming into his cellphone "IT'S UNCRIPPLED! TELL THE WORLD IT'S UNCRIPPLED!"
And not like this I hope:
02-18-2016, 11:18 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Looking at every available photo and video I've stumbled across I see no evidence of the aperture linkage inside the mount. I'm sure one of the "hands-on" reviews would have mentioned it if the linkage were there.
Not only is it not in the pictures, but every unofficial and official spec sheet has plainly stated that nothing has changed from the K-3 with respect to K/M lenses.

QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
Us: (in every interview for at least the past five years): When are you going to uncripple the K-mount?
Pentax (in every interview for at least the past five years): We're not going to uncripple the K-mount.
Us: They're going to uncripple the K-mount!
(Pentax doesn't uncripple the K-mount.)
Us: Awwww - next time, they'll uncripple the K-mount!
And we can expect this to continue as long as it is missing for the very simple reason that the lack of it will continue to cause inconvenience (however minor) and a desire to have it back. I also think there is a qualitative difference between the "feature" request of the aperture linkage and other feature requests. I, and I suspect others, see the lack of the aperture linkage as a deficiency to be fixed rather than a new feature. Thus, it is different from 4K video for example, which is a new thing that will require significant new R&D to develop. Further, I don't see anything wrong with highlighting a continuing issue. I could see a concrete statement from Pentax one way or the other resolving it. I personally haven't heard such a statement from them.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That ship has sailed forever (I was told).
Who told you this? Or is this just inference from the interviews over the years? I am not trying to put you on the spot here. I am just looking for that concrete statement.

QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
If we want that aperture linkage back, something's gotta give. I would give my eye teeth to find out what that is, if I hadn't already had them excised years ago.
I am still not convinced by the "lack of space" reason. I think this is likely the superficial reason, but that they could overcome the challenge if they really wanted to. I think the real reason is one that has been mentioned many times on this forum, which is a perceived lack of interest in the uncrippled K-mount. I personally am not convinced that the interest group is as small as people on this forum think. We may be a very small minority on these forums, but there is a world outside of PF. An interesting note here is that, in the last few days before the release, a few new or low post users (not unlike myself) posted to ask about uncrippling specifically. Just because they don't have a loud voice here doesn't mean they aren't interested.

QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
... or hope for a firmware option to give us stop down on the half-press (which won't matter for K and M lenses, since they focus manually anyway).
I have thought about this as well and would like to see it on the K-1. It likely doesn't have it now, but if there is enough interest, maybe it can be added in an update?


I think what has disappointed me most is that there was a lot of talk in the K-1 teasers and now on the K-1 "Special Site" about the Pentax legacy and history and all that, but none of this talk appears to have translated into actual product changes. It is all marketing fluff. The facts of the matter are that there have been no "old" lens compatibility features introduced since at least the K-7. (Maybe even further back? I am not very familiar the pre K-7 DSLRs.) Sure, the full-frame format itself can be seen as an "old" lens compatibility feature, but it is not only that.

02-18-2016, 11:24 AM   #24
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reversible

QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
An aperture lever that holds the lens wide open. As much as I hate to say it, maybe the solution for the folks who really really want to shoot K/M lenses without green-button metering is to remove the aperture levers and turn them into (adapted) M42s.
There's no need to remove or cut anything. Just undo the spring that keeps the aperture open inside the mount. This way it's totally reversible!

The "aperture simulator" was a ring inside the mount that likely just used a variable resistor to simulate the set aperture for the analog electronics metering system of the film era. This way Pentax provided open aperture metering and viewing. Ironically in the digital era, without this gizmo .. we're now forced back to 1960's stop down metering!

It's a shame they didn't include this in the K-1 flagship. Might have been complete for us 'retro' users! C'est la vie!
02-18-2016, 11:40 AM   #25
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@JBox I was told directly, by PM, by a user presumed to be informed.

I fail to understand how it is in the interest of Pentax to restore a functionality that was removed 19 years ago so that we can more natively use lenses that were built 41 years ago. Stop-down metering works just fine for me. The Green Button is placed in a natural, usable location and mechanical DOF preview and metering is provided on the shutter release ring (my use preference).

I'm at the point where I might label this objection stubborn insistence, but I won't. Doing so would invalidate your opinion.
02-18-2016, 11:50 AM - 1 Like   #26
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I'm sorry you 'retro' users have to press a button to make your 40+year old all mechanical lens, that you likely bought 3rd hand for $50 or less, meter on your brand new $1800 fully computer controlled digital SLR. Such an inconvenience I know...
02-18-2016, 12:01 PM   #27
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At least they can still use those old lenses to some extent on the K-1.

Imagine the anger when I found my fancy direct-drive turntable wouldn't play my 78 rpm Bozo the Clown records
02-18-2016, 12:04 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
And not like this I hope:
I was thinking as much along the line of the Second Coming of the Great Prophet Zarquon (Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Galaxy; he arrives just before the universe ends and doesn't even have time to finish asking if he's got time to speak.) But your example is just as effective.
02-18-2016, 12:37 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@JBox I was told directly, by PM, by a user presumed to be informed.
Thanks. Interesting...

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I fail to understand how it is in the interest of Pentax to restore a functionality that was removed 19 years ago so that we can more natively use lenses that were built 41 years ago. Stop-down metering works just fine for me. The Green Button is placed in a natural, usable location and mechanical DOF preview and metering is provided on the shutter release ring (my use preference).
Well, it may not be in the interest of Pentax. It certainly appears that is what they think now. It is hard for me personally to gauge if it would be in their interest or not. I guess what I am trying to say is: I think the current narratives about this issue are inaccurate. Is it really a space issue? How much interest is there really? I don't think we have good answers to these questions. If Pentax would clearly state their intentions, I think the whole Pentax "community" would be in a better place.

One the green button, I personally find it cumbersome, but maybe I just need to practice more.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I'm at the point where I might label this objection stubborn insistence, but I won't. Doing so would invalidate your opinion.
I am not sure which objection you are referring to specifically, but my statement about it being a "deficiency" was not intended to be strictly practical. I was just trying to illustrate how some of us view it, and partially why I think it continues to be an issue.

I would also like to clarify that "old" lens features are not limited to just the aperture linkage. (I guess in that sense I am a little off-topic.) They could add lens correction profiles for all lenses and have them user selectable for ones the body cannot identify (older than F/FA).

The short issue is this: Pentax seems to be talking-up their past a lot with the K-1, but not really doing anything new with it in the K-1 besides the FF format. Maybe there is something we are not seeing yet, but I doubt it.
02-18-2016, 12:51 PM   #30
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The stubborn thing refers to asking for features Pentax says they aren't doing, like K-mount mirrorlless or video. The open-aperture metering thing is different. I want it too, but I've convinced myself to let go.

As far as user-entry lens profiles, I've thought that's a decent idea for a long time.
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