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02-19-2016, 08:36 AM - 2 Likes   #16
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I suspect that in use you will wonder why anyone does it differently.

I had a bridge camera a number of years ago that had the flip out screen, but I found I didn't use it very much. It would do any angle, very flexible, which seemed like a good idea but in practice not very useful. We can all point a lens roughly in the direction of what we want to shoot at, similar to shooting a rifle. With a bit of practice a person can get reasonably close to target without sighting. Having the screen in the focal plane most of the time unless you work at getting it out may make it easier to line up with your subject. It is very tricky to find something in a screen; try it with the live view. With this if you position it so it is stable, against your chest, or something other, point the lens at the subject by eye, it may be easier to find it in live view.

At least that is what they are proposing, and that is the basis of their design. As I said, in practice we may wonder why anyone does it differently.

When I use my phone to photograph I usually hold it perpendicular to my face and keep it there. Unless I have to get something underneath or in a strange position, in that case it is often trial and error until I get the positioning right. There is no reference. This design gives you a reference.

02-19-2016, 08:52 AM   #17
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^^ Nailed it!
02-19-2016, 09:35 AM   #18
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So this will be especially useful for ultra wide angle and super telephoto, where a LCD screen's "disconnected view" can get really disorienting
02-19-2016, 09:53 AM   #19
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As an event photographer, many of the shots are with people lining up in front of you. One of the major criteria is to minimize any image distortion of the people you are shooting. This is very common mistake in the media photography such as celebrity shots end up with short legs and disproportion in the lower part of the body. I think (and I hope it is the case) that this flexible tilt screen aligning with the optical axis will help to avoid that distortion that we often see in those "professional" photos mistakes. If it is true, I hope someday, the top Canikon pros may be interested into it. I hope Ricoh/Pentax has a patent on this technology that they can not easily copying it.

02-19-2016, 10:13 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
As an event photographer, many of the shots are with people lining up in front of you. One of the major criteria is to minimize any image distortion of the people you are shooting. This is very common mistake in the media photography such as celebrity shots end up with short legs and disproportion in the lower part of the body. I think (and I hope it is the case) that this flexible tilt screen aligning with the optical axis will help to avoid that distortion that we often see in those "professional" photos mistakes. If it is true, I hope someday, the top Canikon pros may be interested into it. I hope Ricoh/Pentax has a patent on this technology that they can not easily copying it.
You are way off base here. The distorted celebrities are the result of lifting the camera above your head and pointing down. While it might be easier to point the camera with a screen that is on axis with the optical path it won't stop people from pointing the camera down. They need to normally have the subjects face centered, to get focus to work on the centre point if they correct for perspective. The subject is in the lower 1/3 of the screen and a multiple AF setup might just think the subject can be ignored.

On second thought is ignoring celebrates a bad thing? Maybe the cameras are smarter than we think
02-19-2016, 10:23 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
You are way off base here. The distorted celebrities are the result of lifting the camera above your head and pointing down. While it might be easier to point the camera with a screen that is on axis with the optical path it won't stop people from pointing the camera down. They need to normally have the subjects face centered, to get focus to work on the centre point if they correct for perspective. The subject is in the lower 1/3 of the screen and a multiple AF setup might just think the subject can be ignored.

On second thought is ignoring celebrates a bad thing? Maybe the cameras are smarter than we think
Lowell, thanks for correcting my thoughts... I was hoping that this may help people minimizing that mistakes (which seems to be commonly accepted by many Canikon users as normal).
02-19-2016, 11:08 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
They do seem to imply in the images that the screen is somehow precisely aligned with the optical axis, but given how the screen can actually be skewed, that obviously is not the case. So there is a bit of marketing going on here.

But I wholehartedly agree with the earlier comment that it is a better solution than a flip out screen. I have used a flip-out screen on my Panasonic GH4 and it is a pain (quite literally) to support the camera with both hands, but have to cock your neck to the left. Moreover, the GH4 has a touch screen, which Panasonic somehow expects people to operate with their left hand, without supporting the weight of the camera with that same hand. A tilting touch screen would have be much easier to operate with either hand, while supporting the weight of the body with both.

I'm glad that Ricoh didn't go with a silly flip-out screen.
Oh and just to be clear, the screen is NOT actually in line with the optical axis of the lens. It is offset to the left by a bit. Still better than a flip out screen, as I said.
02-19-2016, 11:31 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by sinjin Quote
I'd agree it's not a big deal, just a little one. But to very loosely, perhaps botchingly (new word?), paraphrase a design concept: don't underestimate what a pain in the ass little things are when you have to do them often. I like that Ricoh is thinking about little things like this. It gives me confidence that they are making good decisions and compromises.
+1. When shooting greater than lifesize magnification macros using liveview and focus peaking, it can be very difficult to even find the critter you're trying to photograph. Having the screen tilt but still remain in the axis of the lens will, IMHO, really help to maintain a good grasp of exactly what the camera is pointing at, and in which direction you need to move it to find the critter. The lack of such a screen is a constant small source of friction between me and the otherwise stellar K-3, and I really don't want a K-S2 style flip out screen that leaves the axis of the lens...

02-19-2016, 11:53 AM   #24
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Two things V-A-V taking pictures of people in groups or singly.

1) I've been in groups posing for a pro, and several of them like to get up on a ladder, in part so people in the back are not either peeking between heads or hidden in part or entirely, and also because people have a tendency to smile when they look up (reason? Unknown, but it is generally true).

2) With a tilting screen, we have the possibility, when desired, of getting the "Rolleiflex perspective," something a trained eye could spot in pictures of people taken during the 1950's through to about the 1990's. It's not just that body proportions look more correct when photographed from waist level rather than eye-level, it's also the way any background elements are rendered.
02-19-2016, 04:08 PM   #25
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It's interesting that Pentax now has three very different types of flippy screens on current DSLR's:

- K-1 style;
- 645Z (hinged at the bottom, tilts forward, only flips vertically);
- K-S2 (hinged at the left, only swings horizontally, but display can flip 180 degrees).

I would have been happy with the K-1 having the 645Z flippy display, but I do like the additional viewing flexibility the K-1 screen provides.
02-19-2016, 09:23 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by sinjin Quote
Being in line with the axis makes it much easier to compose your shot in live view because there is a 1:1 relationship between what you are doing by moving the camera and what you see on the screen.
Yep...anyone who has tried to accurately frame their phone cam should understand fully.


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02-20-2016, 06:47 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Yep...anyone who has tried to accurately frame their phone cam should understand fully.


Steve
Anyone who doesn't understand how coordinated motion helps should either try to work with students just learning to use a compound microscope in which everything is upside down and backwards, or take their first try with an astronomical telescope where, depending on the kind, everything is upside down, or reversed left to right, or both.
02-20-2016, 07:07 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I suspect that in use you will wonder why anyone does it differently.
I agree, and that is good design when an innovation seems obvious in retrospect. I think many photographers who try composing on a K-1 will go back to their flippy screens and only then realize how irksome they are.

---------- Post added 02-20-16 at 09:12 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
try to work with students just learning to use a compound microscope in which everything is upside down and backwards.
I've had that pleasure: it is seriously disorienting and frustrating.
02-20-2016, 11:41 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Anyone who doesn't understand how coordinated motion helps should either try to work with students just learning to use a compound microscope in which everything is upside down and backwards, or take their first try with an astronomical telescope where, depending on the kind, everything is upside down, or reversed left to right, or both.
Orienting the camera using an indirect viewing path (into the eyepiece) has been a challenge since attachments were made for the viewfinder.

The most current Refconverter (Right Angle Finder), Refconverter-A, which is currently available on the Pentax.jp Products page, shows the viewfinder image correctly oriented. That is also true for the Refconverter-M and Refconverter-II (for K-series cameras). The original Refconverter showed the image vertically correct but laterally reversed.

Fixed LCD's took us back to the dark ages of viewfinder aids. I still don't quite have my head around how this LCD articulation differs from plain old flippy LCD's, but I guess I'll find out soon enough.
02-20-2016, 12:02 PM   #30
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I've come to appreciate and actually prefer waist - level viewfinding on my Sony. The screen is aligned with the lens axis, which I found was comfortable and natural. I considered the KS2 for a while, but the off-axis position of the screen put me off too much. I think the mechanism in the K-1 is an attempt to bridge the two types of articulation.... one that's aligned with the lens axis, but allows more degrees of freedom than the Sony type. I'm pretty thrilled about the opportunities it will bring that I can't see yet.

Last edited by jcdoss; 02-20-2016 at 03:50 PM.
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