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02-24-2016, 01:55 PM   #1
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High speed sync

Will the K-1 have the ability to fire a flash above 1/200? I know with other cameras like Nikon, Sony, Cannon, they can do this with the proper transmitter / receiver / and monolight.

02-24-2016, 02:04 PM   #2
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It will have High Speed Sync as it's APS-C cameras do. Are you talking about being able to trigger a non-HSS flash above 1/200, and allow the photographer to deal with cropping any black off of the image. I have been hoping for this for a long time. As you said other camera makers allow it, I'm not sure why Pentax doesn't? None of their other cameras do though, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
02-24-2016, 02:06 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jacobmin Quote
Will the K-1 have the ability to fire a flash above 1/200? I know with other cameras like Nikon, Sony, Cannon, they can do this with the proper transmitter / receiver / and monolight.
All pentax cameras with P-TTL can fire the flash above 1/200 using high speed sync.
02-24-2016, 02:06 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jacobmin Quote
Will the K-1 have the ability to fire a flash above 1/200? I know with other cameras like Nikon, Sony, Cannon, they can do this with the proper transmitter / receiver / and monolight.
as you mentioned earlier with a proper transceiver, not native. Problem is that reciveres that support Pentax are rare. We as a community of Pentax users can try to push manufactures such as Elinchrom to start supporting Pentax.

02-24-2016, 02:33 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jacobmin Quote
Will the K-1 have the ability to fire a flash above 1/200? I know with other cameras like Nikon, Sony, Cannon, they can do this with the proper transmitter / receiver / and monolight.
All Pentax cameras can fire an HSS-capable flash above 1/200, Jacobmin.

It can be sitting on the hotshoe, or off it can be controlled most simply by a second HSS flash or a cheap Acon radio trigger.
02-24-2016, 02:49 PM   #6
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I think the real question is what is being called hyper sync. Ability to use flash regardless of the shutter speed.
As jake14mw says... probably not and I would not hold my breath for Ricoh to break out of the twentieth century and add that into the K1.
Although I would be very happy if they did.

Of course, now that Prolite has a powerful high speed sync option -- with a full-time pro price tag to match, why would Ricoh want to allow just anyone to be able to take advantage of what almost every other brand on the market allows simply be default. One has to go through extra effort to dis-allow (i.e. cripple) the hardware the way Pentax has. It is just so irritating.
02-24-2016, 03:09 PM   #7
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Can someone explain how the HSS would work if the flash does not comunicate directly with the camera? And I mean just by sending a on/off signal.

I can set my Metz to HSS when it is on the hot shoe or on a "full contact cable". Hopefully it will work on the K-1 aswell.

As I understand it is that when faster than 1/200 in this case the closing curtain will start to close before the opening curtain has opened fully giving light only to the exposed part of the film/sensor.

How does the other brands do this when using a focal plane shutter?
02-24-2016, 03:12 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
Of course, now that Prolite has a powerful high speed sync option -- with a full-time pro price tag to match, why would Ricoh want to allow just anyone to be able to take advantage of what almost every other brand on the market allows simply be default. One has to go through extra effort to dis-allow (i.e. cripple) the hardware the way Pentax has. It is just so irritating.

??


The Acon is cheap. My wife was standing to the left acting as a 'voice-activated light stand.'


I shot here at 1/250s, K-S1, Sigma 17-50mm f2.8.




02-24-2016, 03:22 PM - 3 Likes   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
Can someone explain how the HSS would work if the flash does not comunicate directly with the camera? And I mean just by sending a on/off signal.

I can set my Metz to HSS when it is on the hot shoe or on a "full contact cable". Hopefully it will work on the K-1 aswell.

As I understand it is that when faster than 1/200 in this case the closing curtain will start to close before the opening curtain has opened fully giving light only to the exposed part of the film/sensor.

How does the other brands do this when using a focal plane shutter?
When you exceed the sync speed, your second curtain shutter starts to close before the first curtain shutter has reached the bottom of the sensor. Its creates a moving slit that eventually exposes the whole sensor. If you fire a regular flash during this time, only the part of the sensor currently exposed will be lit by the flash. This results in underexposed bars in your image on either side of the slit. All brands have a sync speed (ignoring leaf shutters) and operate the same way, though the sync speed might be slightly different. Pentax chooses to implement a method where the flash simply won't fire above the sync speed and so the user is not presented with this problem.

To get around the sync speed underexposed bars issue, you can use a feature called high speed sync. Instead of a regular quick flash, the flash pulses many times per second simulating very bright ambient light. This allows the whole sensor to be exposed to the same intensity of light while the slit passes across the sensor.

Lining these things up just right requires communication between the camera and flash. For pentax this means requiring P-TTL, for canon I-TTL and for other maker's, their equivalent proprietary communication method.
02-24-2016, 03:59 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
When you exceed the sync speed, your second curtain shutter starts to close before the first curtain shutter has reached the bottom of the sensor. Its creates a moving slit that eventually exposes the whole sensor. If you fire a regular flash during this time, only the part of the sensor currently exposed will be lit by the flash. This results in underexposed bars in your image on either side of the slit. All brands have a sync speed (ignoring leaf shutters) and operate the same way, though the sync speed might be slightly different. Pentax chooses to implement a method where the flash simply won't fire above the sync speed and so the user is not presented with this problem.

To get around the sync speed underexposed bars issue, you can use a feature called high speed sync. Instead of a regular quick flash, the flash pulses many times per second simulating very bright ambient light. This allows the whole sensor to be exposed to the same intensity of light while the slit passes across the sensor.

Lining these things up just right requires communication between the camera and flash. For pentax this means requiring P-TTL, for canon I-TTL and for other maker's, their equivalent proprietary communication method.
Thank you for taking your time to answer! This is my understanding aswell but I do not understand what Pentax is making different compared to the other brands. Do Canikon allow firing the flash at higher speeds so that it can trigger some kind of high speed flash without the communication? I am trying to understand this thread...
02-24-2016, 04:06 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
Thank you for taking your time to answer! This is my understanding aswell but I do not understand what Pentax is making different compared to the other brands. Do Canikon allow firing the flash at higher speeds so that it can trigger some kind of high speed flash without the communication? I am trying to understand this thread...

No, they all do it the same way - a manual flash won't work without banding.


Some think (I'm one of them) that there should be a menu item allowing our Pentaxes to take the shot with banding anyway. We'd know what we were doing, and would crop the image appropriately.
02-24-2016, 04:13 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
No, they all do it the same way - a manual flash won't work without banding.


Some think (I'm one of them) that there should be a menu item allowing our Pentaxes to take the shot with banding anyway. We'd know what we were doing, and would crop the image appropriately.
Thank you. Now I understand what all the fuzz is about.

Yes, a setting for that would be nice. I like overrides...
02-24-2016, 04:16 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
Thank you for taking your time to answer! This is my understanding aswell but I do not understand what Pentax is making different compared to the other brands. Do Canikon allow firing the flash at higher speeds so that it can trigger some kind of high speed flash without the communication? I am trying to understand this thread...
I believe Pentax probably thought they were protecting users from doing something "stupid".
Sadly quite a few of us actually know what we're doing and can make use of the effect without being coddled.
02-24-2016, 05:10 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
I believe Pentax probably thought they were protecting users from doing something "stupid".
Sadly quite a few of us actually know what we're doing and can make use of the effect without being coddled.
How would you use it?
02-24-2016, 05:30 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
I think the real question is what is being called hyper sync. Ability to use flash regardless of the shutter speed.
As jake14mw says... probably not and I would not hold my breath for Ricoh to break out of the twentieth century and add that into the K1.
By hypersync are you referring to the PocketWizard system? IIRC, success depends on curtain dwell and relatively long flash duration and support is limited to certain Nikon and Canon models using dedicated transmitters for each system. I would suggest that the lack of support for this feature on Pentax has little to do with Ricoh and a whole lot to do with PocketWizard. My understanding is that PocketWizard provides a translation layer between the HSS systems for those brands and their controllers. When PocketWizard supports Pentax, maybe we can get hypersync as well.

If you are talking about the general concept of emulating FP flash bulbs using powerful long-duration flash, that would require a dumb X-sync without the sort of hot shoe gating imposed by Pentax. I don't know what that dubious feature has to do with the 20th century, but whatever. It would be nice if Pentax would allow sync signal at all speeds in M mode with the exception of when a Pentax flash is detected, but I suspect the priority is somewhere behind uncrippling the K-mount.*


Steve

* No clear business case or significant profit potential for doing so.
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