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05-07-2016, 03:53 AM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think you'll find very few swapping brands to the K-1, Laddy.

You can see by the advertising that Ricoh don't expect that to happen, either, because it's pitched at existing Pentaxians.

It's good that you're excited, though! ☺
The really interesting thing, though, about the K-1's price, is that it will impact on the perception of value that Nikon and Canon, (and possibly Sony) buyers have for their gear. Exactly the same thing happens with other products, so that even though people initially stick with the brand they've been loyal to for some time, in the medium term their price expectation of the next models will have shifted downwards, and if the other brands don't respond to match that, loyalties will start to shift. Ricoh didn't need to pitch the K-1 at anyone other than the loyal Pentax users, but the next models will be the interesting ones to watch.

05-07-2016, 04:14 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The really interesting thing, though, about the K-1's price, is that it will impact on the perception of value that Nikon and Canon, (and possibly Sony) buyers have for their gear. Exactly the same thing happens with other products, so that even though people initially stick with the brand they've been loyal to for some time, in the medium term their price expectation of the next models will have shifted downwards, and if the other brands don't respond to match that, loyalties will start to shift.
I think in the case of DSLRs most owners won't change their lens collection, Rob. When somebody manages that - like Kenspo - it's often because someone else is paying them to swap. That's not many people.

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Ricoh didn't need to pitch the K-1 at anyone other than the loyal Pentax users, but the next models will be the interesting ones to watch.
Yes, I think you're right.

The manufacturers seem to be compensating for declining units by charging more (look at the extra $1000 or so you pay for the Sony A6300 vs the A6000, and what Nikon are asking for the D500).

Pentax has joined them now, convincing quite a few of us to upgrade to 35mm.

What can they propose next to the Ricoh board?

05-07-2016, 04:48 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think in the case of DSLRs most owners won't change their lens collection, Rob. When somebody manages that - like Kenspo - it's often because someone else is paying them to swap. That's not many people.
Yes, I wasn't disputing that, and it doesn't matter that much, because there are new entrants to the market every year so we're actually cycling through people, rather than gear. Sobering thought, really.

Still, if there's one thing Japanese firms have distinguished themselves by, ever since the 1950s, at least, it's planning with a 25-year time horizon, whereas the average Western manufacturer seems to think 5 years is a lifetime (and so it is for senior executives, who are looking to make good numbers and get out ahead of the consequences, with a fat bonus).
05-07-2016, 05:43 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Newfie Quote
Just saw this in dpr, and in Japan, the other manufacturers are cutting prices: K-1 and Market Reaction: Price War in Japan: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

I don't know if anyone has verified these prices. Any folks here from Japan?

Let the price games begin ... ;-)
Newfie
It depends on where you live, currency exchange rates, and model release cycles. Photokina is in 4 months and you can expect some big roll-outs from Canon, Nikon, & Sony.

05-07-2016, 06:02 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by clockworkrat Quote
Anyone willing to speculate as to whether Canon and Nikon are going to try to price to kill Pentax, or just enough to not haemorrhage quite so many future buyers?
Sony Maybe... Nikon Maybe not... Canon not likely...

It would be an admission of failure... I do not see them doing this, especially Canon and its market share and slow paced product changes.

---------- Post added 05-07-16 at 06:03 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
It depends on where you live, currency exchange rates, and model release cycles. Photokina is in 4 months and you can expect some big roll-outs from Canon, Nikon, & Sony.
Yes big roll outs, I am willing to bet they will all be priced over $2700
05-07-2016, 07:02 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
Cannon and Nikon both upscaled into the compact camera and "DSLR for soccer rmums boom" that has now died due to mobile phones. Then they were competing for market share with expensive advertising and sales incentives for sales staff. Now with sensor tech hitting its limits disrupting the replacement cycle, and third party lens manufactures upsetting the IQ apple cart they are in trouble. The biggest problem for a small player like Pentax was keeping up with the tech war, Now that its over they can schedule their releases to minimise remaining stock and keeps cost as low as possible. In some ways the lack of third party lens choice increases their profitability when they release an amazing product like the K1.


I was going to post the same thing but you said much better than I could have. "DSLR for soccer rmums boom" is an excellent term and what I was thinking. The IQ of mobile phones are too good now to warrant lugging around DSLRs. Low end DSLRs are going down the same path as video cameras. Plus anyone wanting more IQ today has the option of mirrorless.
05-07-2016, 11:55 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think in the case of DSLRs most owners won't change their lens collection, Rob. When somebody manages that - like Kenspo - it's often because someone else is paying them to swap. That's not many people.



Yes, I think you're right.

The manufacturers seem to be compensating for declining units by charging more (look at the extra $1000 or so you pay for the Sony A6300 vs the A6000, and what Nikon are asking for the D500).

Pentax has joined them now, convincing quite a few of us to upgrade to 35mm.

What can they propose next to the Ricoh board?
I think the Ricoh board should consider a 2nd medium format (or larger) offering that matches the features like shifted pixel resolution mode. We've been living in the stone age and Id like to see effective affordable resolutionbreak
200meg without sacrificing dynamic range. If they do this, and add 4k video, Pentax's dominance will be unquestioned.
05-08-2016, 06:02 AM - 2 Likes   #38
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^^ we should all invest in Cray Computer stock if that ever happens.

05-08-2016, 01:07 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
^^ we should all invest in Cray Computer stock if that ever happens.
Now, there's a lesson for the armchair tech tycoons in the audience…
05-08-2016, 01:23 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
^^ we should all invest in Cray Computer stock if that ever happens.
I might be interested if I can sell some of my Commodore International stock.
06-15-2016, 03:27 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think you'll find very few swapping brands to the K-1, Laddy.

You can see by the advertising that Ricoh don't expect that to happen, either, because it's pitched at existing Pentaxians.

It's good that you're excited, though! ☺

Here's one convert from Canon


06-15-2016, 03:37 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-amps Quote
Here's one convert from Canon
Reality-check me on this one. I'm pretty sure that our converts from Canon, Nikon, etc. who come in at the K-1 level are the ones wanting to make the crop-full frame switch, who have mostly crop glass and not much of it, and thus little to lose by changing platforms. They're in for the cost of the full-frame body anyway, and if that's $1000 lower for the same capability (depending on price fluctuations, market, etc) then it's $1000 they have towards, say, the 28-105 and (depending on what its price is doing) an AF540FGZ-II.

Actually, that would make a neat little package:

"For the cost of a D810 body alone, you get the K-1 with the same sensor, a really excellent walkaround tele zoom, and Pentax's top flash, fully image-stabilised and ALL weather sealed."

That's a sobering thought.
06-15-2016, 06:28 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Reality-check me on this one. I'm pretty sure that our converts from Canon, Nikon, etc. who come in at the K-1 level are the ones wanting to make the crop-full frame switch, who have mostly crop glass and not much of it, and thus little to lose by changing platforms. They're in for the cost of the full-frame body anyway, and if that's $1000 lower for the same capability (depending on price fluctuations, market, etc) then it's $1000 they have towards, say, the 28-105 and (depending on what its price is doing) an AF540FGZ-II.

Actually, that would make a neat little package:

"For the cost of a D810 body alone, you get the K-1 with the same sensor, a really excellent walkaround tele zoom, and Pentax's top flash, fully image-stabilised and ALL weather sealed."

That's a sobering thought.

I sold my last Canon crop in 2009. It was a Rebel XT, I went with the 1d mk.ii, then the 5d1 then the 5d3 when it was released. Been FF for over 6 years. I switched over because I was sick of Canon using 2006 Sensor tech in 2016... same pattern noise, same blotchy shadows, same colors coming apart with little manipulation. I was going to go D810, but I didn't like the ergonomics. I was considering the A7r2, but thought it was overpriced, and the Canon glass had mediocre performance with it. When the K1 came in at $1799 with those amazing D810 killing RAW files at DPreview, I was hooked. I decided I would get one just as a Landscape body. I sold my 5d3 and bought an 80D for birding and other non-landscape use because I still own a lot of stellar Canon glass.
06-15-2016, 04:09 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-amps Quote
Here's one convert from Canon



Oh, you're not the only one, K-amps, just that there's not all that many of you - owning a lifetime's worth of collected glass encourages brand loyalty.


Still, it's your quality, not your quantity, that counts.
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