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03-13-2016, 07:27 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
For me the attraction to the K-1 is pixel shift, an advance in technology. I was looking at some images form my Sigma Merril DP2 last night, and if I can get that from the K-1 or K-5II, without catering to all those DP2 idiosyncrasies
I'll be a happy dude.



Points I always repeat.
How much detail do you lose on the average print taken with a D810, because it's so fine you can't really see it. The assumption is that it makes a difference. No one has proved it.

And the second point is that more resolution does't necessarily mean more enjoyment of the print or of the image, in any medium in which it's likely to be viewed.

Despite all the hogwash that's gone on "resolution, resolution resolution" there is not one piece of verifiable testing that has shown, people will like your prints more at higher resolutions. There's not even a blind test showing that you can tell the difference. People pixel peep these images and see differences. But there is no screen I know of that allows you to show a 6000 x 4000 K-3 image as a pixel peeper. If you have to resort to pixel peeping to show differences, you probably don't have meaningful difference.

I've seen some great images taken with the 645z, and D810, but I have no idea what the image would look like if taken with a K-3 or K5. The pixel size of the K-1 should be about the same as that of a K-5. Without pixel shift you would expect a lot of difference in colour depth etc? We've had the K-5 for years. Nothing new to see there.
A 4K screen is able to show 6 megapixels (actually 8mp in 16x9 format) at full resolution. I am stunned by how good my 6mp pictures look on a 55" 4k screen. In order to show 24 mp at the same dot size you would need a 110" 8K screen. 24 megapixels on the 4k screen doesn't look any better than 6mp shots; since 6mp is all the screen can show.

03-13-2016, 08:30 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by HoustonBob Quote
A 4K screen is able to show 6 megapixels (actually 8mp in 16x9 format) at full resolution. I am stunned by how good my 6mp pictures look on a 55" 4k screen. In order to show 24 mp at the same dot size you would need a 110" 8K screen. 24 megapixels on the 4k screen doesn't look any better than 6mp shots; since 6mp is all the screen can show.
Making a large print the 24 MP K-3 will give you 2 times the dpi and with the K-1 2.45 times the dpi compared to the 6 MP image...
03-13-2016, 08:50 AM   #48
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If you want edge to edge sharpness on full frame (or anything, really), stick to macro lenses. Otherwise just deal with the fact that not all lenses are perfect.
03-13-2016, 09:56 AM - 2 Likes   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Otherwise just deal with the fact that not all lenses are perfect.
Or designed to be sharp edge to edge.

03-13-2016, 10:00 AM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Except that you can have a $ 1899 D810 from grey market. (Not in Europe)
Grey Market (Not in Europe) price comparison to a brand new, List Price body is a ridiculous comparison. It isn't even apples to apples. It's fresh fruit to a black banana. Didn't get any better with a week to reflect on it.
03-14-2016, 03:08 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Or designed to be sharp edge to edge.
Precisely, and in particular when wide open.

Last edited by KDAFA; 03-14-2016 at 03:18 AM.
03-15-2016, 02:36 PM   #52
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Last year a captain of a ship I work with, ordered 8 prints of his ship's photos. He wanted them big. I chose to print them at 30 x 45 CM. I had quite a number of shots in my archive. Some of them were taken with K-3 and Sigma 18-35. Obviously 35 mm is not long enough, so certain shots were heavily cropped. For them to look good and be detailed, even when examined very closely I needed every bit of detail the combo of K-3 and 18-35 could offer. That's when 24 mp and a sharp lens were 100% useful. Heck, even if I print landscapes I encourage people to examine them closely and find details, that you would not notice when looking at the shot from a distance.
Speaking about lenses, as you yourself and many others have pointed out, technically speaking, the FF sensor will put less strain on the lenses when compared to K-3. Corners of some lenses are poor already on K-3. For example sides of the frame, Helios 44K-4 produces are quite bad until F8.
03-15-2016, 02:45 PM   #53
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If the corners are already soft on a K-5, imagine what the K-1 edges will look like. You just doubled your image size with more edges. MY guess is, the FF puts way more strain on the edges than an APS-c. The APS-c uses the sharpest part of the lens.

03-15-2016, 03:00 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If the corners are already soft on a K-5, imagine what the K-1 edges will look like. You just doubled your image size with more edges. MY guess is, the FF puts way more strain on the edges than an APS-c. The APS-c uses the sharpest part of the lens.
Indeed. Makes perfect sense. On the other hand Pentax A 50 F2, performs fairly well on film across the entire frame even when scanned at 30 MP. So the sole fact that the lens is from the film era, does not mean that the performance is by default worse, as some suggest.


The shots were either at F5.6 or at F8. Click preview images to see them in full size.
03-15-2016, 09:19 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stagnant Quote
Pentax A 50 F2, performs fairly well on film across the entire frame even when scanned at 30 MP. So the sole fact that the lens is from the film era, does not mean that the performance is by default worse, as some suggest.
Of course you are correct. The Pentax-A f/1.7 that I got in 1984 attached to a camera is the sharpest lens I own; I would be totally comfortable mounting it on a K-1 ... if I could figure out how to scrape up the money to buy a K-1.
03-16-2016, 09:59 AM   #56
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I'm not concerned with edge sharpness, my subjects are almost always dead center of my center focus point......some cropping later if desired to whatever I want, so 1x1 is always my option too.
FPS is not any priority either, I normally shoot single anyhow. I don't see anything about the K1 that is concerning to me...most is very alluring. I am speaking for myself, not stepping on toes of some that need/desire more. But...it does seem to me that Pentax has given us a lot more than we might have expected, and I'm pretty thrilled about it!

Mrs Rupert is too! She said it is about time I get a Pro camera and become a Pro.......it is the camera that makes it....right?

Regards!

Serving to appreciate Pentaxians and Pentax worldwide.
03-16-2016, 10:21 AM - 1 Like   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
She said it is about time I get a Pro camera and become a Pro.......it is the camera that makes it....right?
Definitely! That's why I'm getting a k-1, so I can be a pro and finally look the part. No more being embarrassed by all those pro cameras out there taking pictures of ducks and pigeons and stuff. Maybe if I get really good I can work up to taking some squirrel pictures. But that will have to wait until I get good, those little critters are awfully fast up here.
03-16-2016, 10:31 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Definitely! That's why I'm getting a k-1, so I can be a pro and finally look the part. No more being embarrassed by all those pro cameras out there taking pictures of ducks and pigeons and stuff. Maybe if I get really good I can work up to taking some squirrel pictures. But that will have to wait until I get good, those little critters are awfully fast up here.
Well, I hate to disappoint Mrs Rupert, but I am already preparing for the letdown when she views my work and concludes I haven't gained a damn thing with a Pro camera.
Never to be without a ready answer, I am prepared......."If I just had the new FF 70-200 2.8 and the new 150-450, you would see that I can reach Pro status in no time!!! Please, it's only money....your money..that is holding me back!!"

Gotta think ahead.....

Regards!
03-16-2016, 05:44 PM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
I disagree. The technical side of photography is as important as the artistic side.
Disagree all you like, you are wrong.

Technical perfection is all well and good, but if the concept is fuzzy, the picture will fail.
An excellent image will overcome many technical flaws if it is compelling enough.
Most of Cartier-Bresson's images are proof of this.

---------- Post added 03-16-16 at 06:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Well, I hate to disappoint Mrs Rupert, but I am already preparing for the letdown when she views my work and concludes I haven't gained a damn thing with a Pro camera.
Never to be without a ready answer, I am prepared......."If I just had the new FF 70-200 2.8 and the new 150-450, you would see that I can reach Pro status in no time!!! Please, it's only money....your money..that is holding me back!!"

Gotta think ahead.....

Regards!
Do what I'm doing. I'm getting a K1 because it's shiny, not because it's going to do anything grand for my picture taking.
03-16-2016, 05:55 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Technical perfection is all well and good, but if the concept is fuzzy, the picture will fail. An excellent image will overcome many technical flaws if it is compelling enough.
I generally agree, except it does depend on the intended use. I shoot a lot of work for stock agencies. In general an image must be technically near perfect, and regardless of how wonderful an image it might be it is not going to ever get seen by anyone unless it passes the technical bar first.

On the other hand, a good image can overcome a multitude of technical flaws if it is being judged as an image or as art. Many (most?) of the really wonderful images I see have technical flaws if you look, but it does not matter because the image or concept itself is strong enough.

Most people (as in non-photographers) will never notice the flaws we see as a matter of course. They just look and enjoy the image without tearing it apart and complaining about WB, noise, dust spots, composition, and so on.

I had a shopper pick up a print at a show this past weekend, it is an old image taken with the k-x in fact. Not my best by far with lots of little flaws if you look. And the flaw he found? One of the clouds is actually a distorted vapor trail instead of a cloud. He didn't care a whit about all the things I saw as problems, but that vapor trail was a no go. And I lost the sale.
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