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03-09-2016, 08:25 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I learned at WPPI that the K-1 uses the same Sony sensor as the Nikon D800, though the sensor has been adapted to Pentax's specifications. I was able to shoot with both cameras side-by-side and the performance is virtually identical; JPEG processing and variations in white balance proved to be the most prominent differences. The K-1 obviously has the advantage of in-camera stabilization, AA filter simulation, and pixel shift super resolution.

What this means is that the K-1 is bound to land near the top of DxO's sensor rankings; the Nikon D800E (2012) is currently #4 and the D810 (2014) is #2 among full-frame bodies.

The K-1 has surprisingly little noise up to ISO 3200, is very clean up to ISO 12,800, and will deliver usable results up to ISO 51,200. ISO 100k and 200k are mostly there for bragging rights, IMO. I happened to capture a photo of a TV about 20 feet away at ISO 51,200 and was still able to read the sub-text under a news headline (I will post a small version of the photo later today).

New JPEG processing options in the K-1 include variable settings for clarity (instead of on/off, as on the K-S2), and settings for skin tone. The rest feels very much like the K-3.

Sample photos:
Pentax K-1 High-Resolution Sample Photos - Hands-on Reviews | PentaxForums.com
So let me see if I understand this correctly? The K1 is using a D800 4 yr old sensor and the D810 is using a 2 yr old sensor. So Pentax couldn't even force themselves to use a 2 yr old sensor, which isn't exactly new either. Not sure how one should feel about this but it is certainly nothing to brag about.

03-09-2016, 08:44 PM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I learned at WPPI that the K-1 uses the same Sony sensor as the Nikon D800, though the sensor has been adapted to Pentax's specifications. I was able to shoot with both cameras side-by-side and the performance is virtually identical; JPEG processing and variations in white balance proved to be the most prominent differences. The K-1 obviously has the advantage of in-camera stabilization, AA filter simulation, and pixel shift super resolution.
QuoteOriginally posted by MikeD Quote
So let me see if I understand this correctly? The K1 is using a D800 4 yr old sensor and the D810 is using a 2 yr old sensor. So Pentax couldn't even force themselves to use a 2 yr old sensor, which isn't exactly new either. Not sure how one should feel about this but it is certainly nothing to brag about.
The K-1 sensor has about the same pixel density as your K-5, and most people still brag about that sensor. I think most K-1 users will brag (if they have to brag at all) about their images If you want to brag about a new sensor go ahead and get an a7RII.

Pentax modified the best sensor design available to suit the target market and image characteristics they seek. It has very little to do with the age of the original sensor design.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-09-2016 at 09:13 PM.
03-09-2016, 08:53 PM   #33
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The camera JPEG engine seems to be handling the high-ISO quite well (at least up to ISO 25600, it seems). But of course some K-1 [final firmware] low-light, high-ISO DNG's would be most revealing.

---------- Post added 2016-03-10 at 03:02 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by MikeD Quote
.. The K1 is using a D800 4 yr old sensor and the D810 is using a 2 yr old sensor...
Note that it's all the same Sony sensor. The D810 has tuned up the existing D800 chip, probably only at the firmware and micro-code level, and added faster supporting chips (Expeed 4 vs Expeed 3). I think that's what the K-1 is doing too. No need to ask Sony to totally fab a new chip for every camera model - just look at D600/D610/D750 - same sensor chip, but each camera became faster, more evolved, and performed better through the tweaks Nikon performed, not anything substantially new about the Sony sensor.

Last edited by rawr; 03-09-2016 at 09:09 PM.
03-09-2016, 09:53 PM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeD Quote
Not sure how one should feel about this but it is certainly nothing to brag about.
The FA 77mm is a lot older than that and a lot of people brag about it. But I don't buy cameras to brag about them or the sensor. I buy cameras to make images with. Don't give a rodents rear end what sensor is in it. If I brag it will be about my images, not the sensor in the camera.

03-09-2016, 10:05 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikeD Quote
So let me see if I understand this correctly? The K1 is using a D800 4 yr old sensor and the D810 is using a 2 yr old sensor. So Pentax couldn't even force themselves to use a 2 yr old sensor, which isn't exactly new either. Not sure how one should feel about this but it is certainly nothing to brag about.
The way I see it is: 1) Pentaxians feel threatened as soon as we consider competitor brands and 2) constantly need to reassure themselves that they made the right choice to invest in k mount, so, any bit of marketing info (not even anything technically specific), and the dynamic range is already beyond competition whithout even having measured it. I also do have exclusively Pentax gear. But I see things differently... I see Canon do not make so much hype about their cameras, they rolls out models one after the other and for instance, the 5D series are really work horse, no fluff, no gimmick, it just has been working for years. Regarding sensors, why is this such a problem to use the same sensor as the D800? I don't see the problem, the D800 deliver excellent images, so why Pentax feels the need to claim a change on the sensor. Let Pentaxian believe that they'll have a better than 5Ds or better than D810 machine... anyway, it's not needed to dig very far to know that's not true, other cameras have more advanced AF anyway.

---------- Post added 10-03-16 at 06:12 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
though the sensor has been adapted to Pentax's specifications.
Of course is was adapted for the SR mechanism, so it is absolutely certain that Ricoh defined a specific sensor package and interconnect to fit with SR.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 03-09-2016 at 10:10 PM.
03-09-2016, 10:20 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The way I see it is: 1) Pentaxians feel threatened as soon as we consider competitor brands and 2) constantly need to reassure themselves that they made the right choice to invest in k mount, so, any bit of marketing info (not even anything technically specific), and the dynamic range is already beyond competition whithout even having measured it. I also do have exclusively Pentax gear. But I see things differently... I see Canon do not make so much hype about their cameras, they rolls out models one after the other and for instance, the 5D series are really work horse, no fluff, no gimmick, it just has been working for years. Regarding sensors, why is this such a problem to use the same sensor as the D800? I don't see the problem, the D800 deliver excellent images, so why Pentax feels the need to claim a change on the sensor. Let Pentaxian believe that they'll have a better than 5Ds or better than D810 machine... anyway, it's not needed to dig very far to know that's not true, other cameras have more advanced AF anyway.

---------- Post added 10-03-16 at 06:12 ----------


Of course is was adapted for the SR mechanism, so it is absolutely certain that Ricoh defined a specific sensor package and interconnect to fit with SR.
Oh. My. God.

It doesn't have dog squat to do with SR. Please. Just go away.

boriscleto'ed again.
03-09-2016, 10:30 PM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The way I see it is: 1) Pentaxians feel threatened as soon as we consider competitor brands and 2) constantly need to reassure themselves that they made the right choice to invest in k mount, so, any bit of marketing info (not even anything technically specific), and the dynamic range is already beyond competition whithout even having measured it. I also do have exclusively Pentax gear. But I see things differently... I see Canon do not make so much hype about their cameras, they rolls out models one after the other and for instance, the 5D series are really work horse, no fluff, no gimmick, it just has been working for years. Regarding sensors, why is this such a problem to use the same sensor as the D800? I don't see the problem, the D800 deliver excellent images, so why Pentax feels the need to claim a change on the sensor. Let Pentaxian believe that they'll have a better than 5Ds or better than D810 machine... anyway, it's not needed to dig very far to know that's not true, other cameras have more advanced AF anyway.
Can you please show where "Pentaxians" are claiming the K-1 is better than the 5Ds or D810?

Comparing the release of the K-1 - Pentax's first digital FF - with Canon's incremental upgrade cycle is faulty logic.

The way you "see it" seems not to mesh with actuality. It's like you have an inner dialogue, creating arguments with yourself, and since articulation is the final act in the creative process you need to expound upon them here to give them substance, a Dali-esque distortion of reality.
03-09-2016, 10:31 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
And they placed pre-orders right then and there, right?
...bought t-shirt and hats too!

03-09-2016, 10:39 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Can you please show where "Pentaxians" are claiming the K-1 is better than the 5Ds or D810?
I am! I am!


Steve
03-09-2016, 10:48 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I am! I am!


Steve
You're the fringe element, Steve. We need to pack you off for a while to some remote location with a K-1 and rations.
03-09-2016, 11:09 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
. But I see things differently... .[COLOR="Silver"]
mmmm...... quite a disappointing post (or ...... quite telling?)
03-09-2016, 11:11 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It doesn't have dog squat to do with SR. Please. Just go away.
If you know about silicon chip manufacturing, how can the sensor be adapted to Ricoh specifications without involving a change of photo-litho mask layers? If the masks aren't changed, the sensor is physically exactly the same. There's one way to alter a design by non volatile programming, if the sensor contains any NVM block, but due to the surface that it would occupy, I doubt there is much after process customization such as for instance DR adjust, it is much easier to do this in firmware. Therefore, it can't be that the sensor is the same as D800 if was adapted to Ricoh's spec. unless it is pure marketing talk. The sensor of the K-1 "is" or "is not" the same as the D800 but can't be both.
03-10-2016, 12:14 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by W.j.christy Quote
How did the autofocus work? Was the point spread adequate?
Yes I was wondering the same. I'm sure Adam who shoot both D800 and K-1 side by side can give us some thoughts on another post right?
03-10-2016, 12:38 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Let Pentaxian believe that they'll have a better than 5Ds or better than D810 machine.
Do you have names and addresses of these Pentaxians?

I've known plenty of engineers, none as joyless as you.

As an addendum, for at least a thousand dollars cheaper than the 5DS & D810 you'd be getting pixel shift and 5-way shake reduction!
03-10-2016, 12:41 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
As an addendum, for at least a thousand dollars cheaper than the 5DS & D810 you'd be getting pixel shift and 5-way shake reduction!
Yes, sure I know this. The K-1 has advantages, why need to refer to D800, expect for reassurance.
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