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03-28-2016, 04:07 AM   #16
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The biggest problem with a mirrorless Pentax full-frame is that IIRC, Pentax/Ricoh have pronounced themselves dissatisfied with the current state-of-the-art of EVF tech. The K-01 seems to have been a "Well, here it is, you asked for it" thing with this philosophy borne in mind, and it wasn't exactly a runaway success. If you want Pentax to build you an A7, that's not going to happen. My suspicion is that the A7's omnivorous appetite as regards glass is the only thing that saves it from being a complete flop.

I can imagine a slimmer full-frame K-01 shipping with a registry distance bridge bearing all the appropriate contacts, to be fully compatible with Pentax glass first and foremost and allow for other adapters a very distant second, but ONLY after the EVF issues have been sorted out in the designers' minds. And if we're going to eliminate the formal mirror box, THEN is the time to reintroduce the aperture arm, when there will be a lot more in-camera space to play with, viz.

QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Their work on the electro-magnets for the SR assembly suggests to me that Ricoh's engineers are capable of designing a small magnetic sensor for the aperture lever, which would be far less intrusive than the original potentiometer (and spring, IIRC) mechanism, considering that space in that area is the technical hurdle, and the associated circuitry could be parked elsewhere.


03-28-2016, 05:00 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
The biggest problem with a mirrorless Pentax full-frame is that IIRC, Pentax/Ricoh have pronounced themselves dissatisfied with the current state-of-the-art of EVF tech…
From what I've seen, I can't argue with that conclusion, but it's really no excuse for not providing an option for either of their Pentax-badged mirrorless efforts to date, especially as it was provided for the two Ricoh-badged cameras. EVFs have improved somewhat since those Ricoh efforts, too.

QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
I can imagine a slimmer full-frame K-01 shipping with a registry distance bridge bearing all the appropriate contacts, to be fully compatible with Pentax glass first and foremost and allow for other adapters a very distant second, but ONLY after the EVF issues have been sorted out in the designers' minds. And if we're going to eliminate the formal mirror box, THEN is the time to reintroduce the aperture arm, when there will be a lot more in-camera space to play with, viz.
It's interesting how the negativity to this design suggestion has abated over the last couple of years. Of course, such a camera would allow a rebirth of the aperture sensor in something like its original form, probably with a digital encoder instead of the old potentiometer. The problem is that there isn't such a camera now, and we really have no idea if and when it might appear. The K-1 does exist, and with some good engineering design its successor could have an aperture sensor without compromising the other mirror box contents. Of course, that successor could also have a plethora of other technological advances, too, which would probably be a better use of Ricoh's engineering resources.
03-28-2016, 05:21 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
Most of these challenges would not have been present if they had gone with a "mirrorless" full frame.

Could you image if Pentax had taken the easier route and made the K1 a mirrorless full frame. They would have been to market a year sooner, and I'm guessing the price would have been around $1,400!
I think it would in opposite creat more challenges and take more time to develop. Look at A7 from first model to A7ii body got bigger almost dslr size. A7 series are good cameras but notorious famous for ; shuter shaky-loud slap, low battery life and overheating. This would create challenges of their own
03-28-2016, 05:37 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
It's interesting how the negativity to this design suggestion has abated over the last couple of years.
Don't worry, the negativity would resurface as soon as Pentax would make such an improved version.

FTR, I also believe that people harping on about Pentax making a mirrorless would not buy it. After all, there are mirrorless cameras on the market, and they don't buy them - why should I believe they would buy something similar, just because there's a "Pentax" badge on it?
Indeed, Ricoh did the right thing by making a Pentax camera for Pentaxians.

03-28-2016, 06:09 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Indeed, Ricoh did the right thing by making a Pentax camera for Pentaxians.
Yes, absolutely. Whatever hypothetical possibilities I might allow myself to consider, I am immensely glad they chose the well-worn path of a competently constructed DSLR, which is their strength. They are not, and I do not think they will ever be, strong in Mirrorless - it will always be a side project for them. For their flagships and other high end stuff, it's best they stick to what they know and do it well than try some foolishly brave experiment and end up with the Ford Edsel of cameras.
03-28-2016, 07:11 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
Yes, absolutely. Whatever hypothetical possibilities I might allow myself to consider, I am immensely glad they chose the well-worn path of a competently constructed DSLR, which is their strength. They are not, and I do not think they will ever be, strong in Mirrorless - it will always be a side project for them. For their flagships and other high end stuff, it's best they stick to what they know and do it well than try some foolishly brave experiment and end up with the Ford Edsel of cameras.
I suspect they will come out with some Ricoh GR branded mirrorless. But a good portion of the development done here will show up there. The SR technology for example.
03-28-2016, 08:07 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I suspect they will come out with some Ricoh GR branded mirrorless. But a good portion of the development done here will show up there. The SR technology for example.
That will be the safe way to do it, I think. Mature the technology under the Ricoh brand, where everyone expects high-class P&S (but using knowledge gleaned from the Pentax arm), then shift it over to MILC (under the Pentax brand) when they know for sure they can make it fly. As much as they make noise about Pentax and Ricoh being one and the same, it seems to me that with a few standout exceptions (e.g. MX-1), MILC is Pentax and P&S is Ricoh. That is, I think, as it should be. Each can strive for excellence and development in its own niche.
03-28-2016, 09:42 AM - 2 Likes   #23
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Let me get in my one complaint.....I don't have my K1 yet. Otherwise, I've found nothing to complain about......which makes pretty good sense since we don't even have them in our hands?

Regards!

03-28-2016, 09:56 AM   #24
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IIRC Ricoh said Pentax brand is for dSLR's and Ricoh brand is for GR and 'new technologies'. Theta is a new technology. MILC with a new mount under the Ricoh brand is a new technology. A 'Pentax K' converter branded Ricoh solves the Pentax register distance problem - and the brand image conflict.
03-28-2016, 08:31 PM - 3 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
Most of these challenges would not have been present if they had gone with a "mirrorless" full frame.

Could you image if Pentax had taken the easier route and made the K1 a mirrorless full frame. They would have been to market a year sooner, and I'm guessing the price would have been around $1,400!
And it would have tanked because mirrorless viewfinders aren't as good as optical ones (yet)
03-29-2016, 05:35 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
And it would have tanked because mirrorless viewfinders aren't as good as optical ones (yet)
Thus speaks the man who's been using an XT-1 for the last couple of years. As a matter of interest, what did and didn't you like about its EVF? I was under the impression that it was one of the better ones around, hopefully better than on my X30 (which I think is OK, by the way, but far from being an OVF-beater in most situations, even dark areas, sometimes).
03-29-2016, 06:01 PM   #27
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Very nice visual "show" of this downsizing and thanks for sharing.
I noticed that this is installment 3 of 6, the no. 4, 5 and 6 all scheduled for April !

As for going mirrorless .... I have one: Fuji X-E2: good camera but as a "companion" for my K3 it doesn't go out as often as I had hoped and now my main "second" body is my trusty ol' K5!
The entire menu structure sucks and I find it terribly user non-friendly where as the K5 and K3 are a charm to work with.
The EVF ... ? Lucky for me I don't have a vestibular problem.

Good work Ricoh/Pentax !
04-22-2016, 06:35 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Thus speaks the man who's been using an XT-1 for the last couple of years. As a matter of interest, what did and didn't you like about its EVF? I was under the impression that it was one of the better ones around, hopefully better than on my X30 (which I think is OK, by the way, but far from being an OVF-beater in most situations, even dark areas, sometimes).
If I look through it for more than about half a minute at a time it gives me eye strain. I do like that it gains up in the dark, I'd rather have a bright noisy view than a dark one that I have to guess with. Shooting at a high frame rate is a challenge to say the least as the viewfinder takes on a stop motion animation with most of the frames missing appearance.

EVFs have the potential to be very good indeed, I have the X-Pro1 and the X-T1. The X-T1 is miles better than the older X-Pro1, but they aren't quite there yet.
04-23-2016, 05:23 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I considered a and decided against it. How disappointed would I be if Pentax had come out with one? Really, really disappointed.

"I won't buy one" disappointed.

Time for you mirrorless dudes to clue in. If I wanted one, I'd have one.

It is absolutely ignorant to keep thinking this would be an acceptable solution for me and many others. We are totally sick about hearing about and mirrorless. to be blunt, the concept is at least in my opinion, completely disgusting, I'm tired of hearing about it, give it a rest. Go to some Sony forum.

Everyone who wants to know about mirrorless on the forum already knows. Most of us investigated when the first of the A7 series came out.

^^^^^^^ Indeed!
04-23-2016, 06:03 AM - 1 Like   #30
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Agreed, am definitely getting annoyed with 'mirrorless' advocation interrupting about every thread related to Pentax DSLR's. I want my Pentax DSLR specifically because it does have a OVF and isn't mirrorless. If I wanted mirrorless, I would be more than happy to choose some Ricoh product if they offer it in the future. If I wanted mirrorless right now, then I would already be using a Sony. But I do NOT, because of CHOICE.

Regardless, if I wanted to read about mirrorless, research about mirrorless, or even rant about mirrorless - then I most certainly would look for and locate a mirrorless specific thread somewhere else in this forum!
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