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03-30-2016, 04:20 AM - 2 Likes   #1
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Dear Ricoh! Please add this awesome feature to your K-1!

If there is someone with a bit of sway to get things happening at Ricoh, please do pass this idea on!!

Dear Ricoh!!

Please adapt your workflow for multiple exposures like you use in the Ricoh GR (if possible) into the firmware of your cameras, especially the K-1! At present with my K-3, if I am taking multiple exposures, there is no option to review the a shot, nor the multiple exposed shot before saving it. It just locks each shot in. Where as on the GR, I take a shot, it gives me the option, use or retake.

Here's are a few examples of why this is a much better idea to give the option of review before save.

If I take a once in a life time capture and I stuff up the second shot that goes with it, the multiple exposure it ruined and I'm forced to take the original and go and manually edit a ME later. This effects both workflow and usability.

or, something else I like to do,

If I want my first shot to be in my studio, then my second to be down the street, out in nature somewhere, if the second shot is not nailed quite right, back I go to the studio to do it all over again.

The review feature as in the GR really would take the K-1 just that extra step forward as a creative tool, one that allows the user to nail their multiple exposures with more efficiency. Don't quite get the second shot right? With the option to use or retake, it can mean far better images in the end, a far more useable experience as well as a far better advantage to your cameras over other competitors who do not offer this feature...

Here's a bit of what I get up to with it all and I tell you, having to walk back to my studio to retake shots with the K-3 really puts a damper on the whole process. (notice how these are all GR shots? The K-3 is just much harder to nail what I'm after.) Please kindly at this review feature for ME shooting to your cameras...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/25350308324/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/25888007041/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/25887922571/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/25526836244/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/26065345781/in/dateposted-public/


Last edited by lightsource; 03-30-2016 at 07:33 AM.
03-30-2016, 05:00 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by lightsource Quote
If there is someone with a bit of sway to get things happening at Ricoh, please do pass this idea on!!

Dear Ricoh!!

Please adapt your workflow for multiple exposures like you use in the Ricoh GR into the firmware of your cameras, especially the K-1! At present with my K-3, if I am taking multiple exposures, there is no option to review the a shot, nor the multiple exposed shot before saving it. It just locks each shot in. Where as on the GR, I take a shot, it gives me the option, use or retake.

Here's are a few examples of why this is a much better idea to give the option of review before save.

If I take a once in a life time capture and I stuff up the second shot that goes with it, the multiple exposure it ruined and I'm forced to take the original and go and manually edit a ME later. This effects both workflow and usability.

or, something else I like to do,

If I want my first shot to be in my studio, then my second to be down the street, out in nature somewhere, if the second shot is not nailed quite right, back I go to the studio to do it all over again.

The review feature as in the GR really would take the K-1 just that extra step forward as a creative tool, one that allows the user to nail their multiple exposures with more efficiency. Don't quite get the second shot right? With the option to use or retake, it can mean far better images in the end, a far more useable experience as well as a far better advantage to your cameras over other competitors who do not offer this feature...

Here's a bit of what I get up to with it all and I tell you, having to walk back to my studio to retake shots with the K-3 really puts a damper on the whole process. (notice how these are all GR shots? The K-3 is just much harder to nail what I'm after.) Please kindly at this review feature for ME shooting to your cameras...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/25350308324/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/25888007041/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/25887922571/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/25526836244/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141209833@N06/26065345781/in/dateposted-public/
Why did you decided that this feature is not implemented in K-1?
When shooting multiple-exposures use live view...
03-30-2016, 05:23 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Why did you decided that this feature is not implemented in K-1?
When shooting multiple-exposures use live view...
yes... live view overlays the images and allows one to frame using the first image. However, say I take a double exposure, (with the k-5 and k-3) once the first and second shots are taken, thats it. If I don't like it after the second, I have to go back, retake the first (if possible, there are times when it is not) and then try again, let alone keep trying until it turns out the way hoped for. Nailing them each time, especially when it comes to balance of two or more exposures ain't always easy. With the Ricoh GR, after each shot taken, the user is offered a choice, "Use this shot" or "retake". If the first shot on the GR is a winner, I can take as many second shots as I like until I get it right and it never saves over the first one with the second until I'm happy with it. I admit its presumptuous that this feature won't be in the K-1, but with the k-5/3 as examples, I'm guessing it is likely to be consistent with these former models.

---------- Post added 03-30-16 at 08:26 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
Why did you decided that this feature is not implemented in K-1?
When shooting multiple-exposures use live view...
If it is in the K-1, the option to review before locking in the multiple exposure and saving it, I will be very happy. It can become tiresome redoing the first shot over and over on my k-3, when the second shot doesn't work out quite how I like it...

Last edited by lightsource; 03-30-2016 at 05:29 AM.
03-30-2016, 05:38 AM   #4
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I would already be happy if they finally added simple multiplicative blending. It's beyond me why you can't just add a simple mode that multipies the exposures. This would enable us to do in-cam orton images. Even asked ricoh about that via mail and they blablahed me the according section of the manual.

Ricoh, wake up! A single developer can add this to your firmware in less than 5 hours, including testing&validation! Put a section that explains orton imagery in your manual and you got yourself another bullet point for marketing / PR! This is super low hanging fruit!

03-30-2016, 05:43 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by romay Quote
I would already be happy if they finally added simple multiplicative blending. It's beyond me why you can't just add a simple mode that multipies the exposures. This would enable us to do in-cam orton images. Even asked ricoh about that via mail and they blablahed me the according section of the manual.

Ricoh, wake up! A single developer can add this to your firmware in less than 5 hours, including testing&validation! Put a section that explains orton imagery in your manual and you got yourself another bullet point for marketing / PR! This is super low hanging fruit!

You mean, take two existing single shots and then use a feature to blend them? Yes, this would be good, certainly something I've wondered about.

---------- Post added 03-30-16 at 08:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by romay Quote
I would already be happy if they finally added simple multiplicative blending. It's beyond me why you can't just add a simple mode that multipies the exposures. This would enable us to do in-cam orton images. Even asked ricoh about that via mail and they blablahed me the according section of the manual.

Ricoh, wake up! A single developer can add this to your firmware in less than 5 hours, including testing&validation! Put a section that explains orton imagery in your manual and you got yourself another bullet point for marketing / PR! This is super low hanging fruit!
I tell you, the review feature on the GR opens up a whole world more possibilities. The whole process can be far more exploratory and experimental. Say my second shot is taken at 1/125, If I want to see what I prefer 1/125 or 1/250, I can and the first shot remains. One can utilise far more efficient control over the final outcome with this method. The take it or leave it option on the k-3 doesn't come close. In fact, sorry to say, I think it sucks in comparison. It just ain't the same.
03-30-2016, 06:04 AM   #6
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I started playing with this as soon as I got my GR. The implementation is wonderful. There already is cross polination going on between Ricoh and Pentax branded cameras. Let's hope they put the best of both in all of their cameras regardless of branding.

Had not thought about in camera orton image processing. That would be very cool. Actually, when you push the rear jog dial and get the effects menu; it would be nice if they added the multi exposure, interval, and orton items here so you would not have to go into the full menu to access them.
03-30-2016, 06:14 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by indy Quote
I started playing with this as soon as I got my GR. The implementation is wonderful. There already is cross polination going on between Ricoh and Pentax branded cameras. Let's hope they put the best of both in all of their cameras regardless of branding.

Had not thought about in camera orton image processing. That would be very cool. Actually, when you push the rear jog dial and get the effects menu; it would be nice if they added the multi exposure, interval, and orton items here so you would not have to go into the full menu to access them.
Its as simple as firmware! here's hoping! Its not like we'd be asking for them to redesign the body of the camera.

---------- Post added 03-30-16 at 09:24 PM ----------

haha. I liken it to this... GR... Like buying a lottery scratch card, not winning, but being able to keep scratching another one until there's one that is a winner! K-3? Buy a lottery scratch card, not winning, then having to go back and keep buying more until there is a winner.
03-30-2016, 06:59 AM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by lightsource Quote
Its as simple as firmware!
...and firmware is simple?


Steve

03-30-2016, 07:12 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
...and firmware is simple?


Steve
far call.. though it is (generally speaking) comparatively to recalling a body design and rebuilding it, no?... kinda where I was coming from. Its not like its a concept that hasn't been done already at least. Can't hurt to hope. Can't hurt to put the idea out there. If not for the k-1, then maybe for a next model.

Last edited by lightsource; 03-30-2016 at 07:24 AM.
03-30-2016, 07:16 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by romay Quote
Ricoh, wake up! A single developer can add this to your firmware in less than 5 hours, including testing&validation!
Fascinating speculation. And what component is this wonderful developer writing against that provides the required merge capabilities?


Steve

(...there is this little matter called hardware API...if it ain't there, it ain't there...)

(...five hours? Not for a commercial product...not a chance...)
03-30-2016, 07:28 AM - 6 Likes   #11
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5 hours... he must be a manager!
03-30-2016, 09:05 AM   #12
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What am I missing here? What is the advantage, if any, of in-camera multiple-exposures over simply layering however many captures you want in post, and composing them together with far more control and precision?
03-30-2016, 09:54 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by dsmithhfx Quote
What am I missing here? What is the advantage, if any, of in-camera multiple-exposures over simply layering however many captures you want in post, and composing them together with far more control and precision?
Yes, though it is nice being able to see the potential development in-camera.... One seemingly easier (though not as complete as what the OP wants) tweak/improvement would be to add the option to "Save Process" to the Multi-exposure mode that Interval Composite mode already has (referring to K-3 here).
03-30-2016, 11:53 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by dsmithhfx Quote
What am I missing here? What is the advantage, if any, of in-camera multiple-exposures over simply layering however many captures you want in post, and composing them together with far more control and precision?
It has the same utility as scene modes, in-camera custom image processing, in-camera HDR, and excess chrome on an automobile. There is some potential utility, but are seldom used by experienced/advanced photographers. Think of it as photo bling. Some is good, but unless there is clear return on investment, it is unlikely that Ricoh will risk product stability to pad the feature stack.


Steve
03-30-2016, 01:48 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It has the same utility as scene modes, in-camera custom image processing, in-camera HDR, and excess chrome on an automobile. There is some potential utility, but are seldom used by experienced/advanced photographers. Think of it as photo bling. Some is good, but unless there is clear return on investment, it is unlikely that Ricoh will risk product stability to pad the feature stack.


Steve
In this case I think the multiple exposure feature in-camera can offer a clear advantage over post-processing exposure compositing, because it allows you to better fit the image composition at the time of shooting. In post, you have no control over adjusting perspective, framing*, etc. while with the OP's described feature you can play around with this until you get a desired combination/alignment between your multiple exposures.

Edit:
Ideally, the individual exposures could also be saved separately or be able to be extracted from the multiple exposure shot, so that fine tuning of the compositing could be performed in post, thus providing the advantages of both techniques.

*Of course you can crop in to adjust the frame in post, but this is more limited than the flexibility afforded while shooting and also reduces the image resolution.

Last edited by crussellsprout; 03-30-2016 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Clarifying point
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