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04-04-2016, 12:41 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Sorry to sidetrack this thread but I would like to ask to those who will buy the K-1 :
Do you find this manual any better than the one provided with the K3 ? I.E.: more "complete" ?
Thanks !
I think the English is better - more like traditional Pentax manuals which were in very good English. It remains to be seen if the printed version will require a scanning electron microscope to read it, like the K-3

Btw - has anybody seen an English language brochure for the camera?

04-04-2016, 08:44 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
So far I don't. It seems to have everything listed but as with other previous manuals just a list of features and options with little info on what they do or why to use them. Not bad really, in fact no worse than other manuals but the need for a book on how to use those features is going to be high.
The "e-Books" just might come very handy then.
04-04-2016, 08:55 AM - 1 Like   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
So far I don't. It seems to have everything listed but as with other previous manuals just a list of features and options with little info on what they do or why to use them. Not bad really, in fact no worse than other manuals but the need for a book on how to use those features is going to be high.
I agree. The manual for my Nikon FM2 was great IIRC, it actually taught photography. The K-1 manual just goes through what is there, without explaining much.

I'm not sure if there's much to learn though, Pentax cameras are rather intuitive, and if you've used an older Pentax you should find your way around it quite easily.

@BigMackCam: The camera that currently best serves my needs (stills and video) is a 6 year old Pentax. I've looked at all the competitors. Nope, I still rather use the old Pentax, and that's saying a lot because it's far from great for video. All the competitors have major drawbacks though, that the K-5 doesn't. The K-1 is very close, but screws up in a few key areas that make it useless, worse than almost everything else in the market. Imagine a car with a big boot that you can't access, cause the manufacturer didn't add a button so you can open it. Cause their cars are not for hauling stuff.
04-04-2016, 09:45 AM - 1 Like   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The K-1 is very close, but screws up in a few key areas that make it useless, worse than almost everything else in the market.
For you and a few others, in one specific area (video) that may be true. Thankfully, the majority of those interested in the K-1 won't share that opinion

04-04-2016, 09:48 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Imagine a car with a big boot that you can't access, cause the manufacturer didn't add a button so you can open it. Cause their cars are not for hauling stuff.
Oh, you can open the boot, just not while the car is moving...


Steve

(...amazing how not meeting one person's use cases on a single feature makes a tool useless for its primary purpose...go figure...)
04-04-2016, 09:58 AM - 1 Like   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
For you and a few others, in one specific area (video) that may be true. Thankfully, the majority of those interested in the K-1 won't share that opinion
Obviously. It's just a rebuttal to those telling us to leave and buy something else. There is nothing else, and Pentax is close to delivering the perfect camera for me. It has been for the last 5 years, but always misses the mark by having moved away from their 6 year old K-5. That's was frustrating me, and some others too. I only meant to say that the camera, for me, becomes useless. I can't afford to have a tool that only does one thing well. And even if I could, I don't want to carry the additional gear.

I'm well aware that for others the K-1 delivers everything they could possibly want from a camera (though how anyone can live with that focus point selection is beyond me... the K-1 is a bit better, but still far from good. I really can't get used to it, and Pentax insisting on this system is baffling, cause they could just let us change how the buttons behave). That's great for them, for Pentax, ...

@steve: That would be true, if it was a useless feature while the car is moving. For some however it is not, it's much more useful while the car is moving. So no, not having any access to the boot is a better analogy
04-04-2016, 10:05 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Obviously. It's just a rebuttal to those telling us to leave and buy something else. There is nothing else, and Pentax is close to delivering the perfect camera for me. It has been for the last 5 years, but always misses the mark by having moved away from their 6 year old K-5. That's was frustrating me, and some others too. I only meant to say that the camera, for me, becomes useless. I can't afford to have a tool that only does one thing well. And even if I could, I don't want to carry the additional gear.
"For me" - that's the key part here. When you put it like that, it comes across as so much more level-headed and reasonable - and I completely understand your frustration (I just don't share it, as video isn't a priority for me). I guess your choice comes down to which single camera's compromises you are most prepared to live with - your existing K-5 (in which case now might be a good time to invest in an additional low-shutter-count used body), the K-1 (if you can live with video functionality that is basically useless to you), or another manufacturer's camera with its own set of compromises... Tough choice, but there it is.
04-04-2016, 10:21 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
"For me" - that's the key part here. When you put it like that, it comes across as so much more level-headed and reasonable - and I completely understand your frustration (I just don't share it, as video isn't a priority for me). I guess your choice comes down to which single camera's compromises you are most prepared to live with - your existing K-5 (in which case now might be a good time to invest in an additional low-shutter-count used body), the K-1 (if you can live with video functionality that is basically useless to you), or another manufacturer's camera with its own set of compromises... Tough choice, but there it is.
I was assuming that it's clear that I mean _for me_.

Sadly the K-1 even fails me on the stills side, though nowhere near as much, and again it's just little things that could probably be fixed easily. Inverting the button that lets you tell the camera that you want to select the focus point. Do bracketing, but instead of different exposures let the sensor move into each corner. Niche features, yes, but they've also implemented Astrotracer.

I guess I'll always be able to buy a second hand K-5 if necessary, no need to stockpile on them right now, and perhaps, at some point, one camera maker (hopefully Pentax, as they are closest), will do it right.

04-04-2016, 10:29 AM - 1 Like   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I was assuming that it's clear that I mean _for me_.
With respect, I think that assumption is the reason you've had quite a lot of negative and vociferous responses to your other posts on this subject... It really hasn't been clear that you meant "for me". Those posts have - perhaps unintentionally - come across as bashing Pentax and stating as fact that aspects of the K-1 are useless... which is a shame, because I can see now that you acknowledge it will be great for many people - just not for you.

Here's hoping they develop the video side further. It would be nice for you to have a suitable upgrade / renewal path from your K-5 should you ever need or want it.
04-04-2016, 10:55 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Imagine a car with a big boot that you can't access, cause the manufacturer didn't add a button so you can open it. Cause their cars are not for hauling stuff.
I almost provided a similar analogy earlier {except I would have used the word "trunk" instead of "boot"}. There are cars made with a very small "boot" {or perhaps none at all}. Four years ago I was driving a round-trip of 150 miles each day to-from work. I doubt if I opened the trunk more than once a month. I didn't need a back seat. What I needed was a car that would efficiently carry one person and virtually no luggage. If I had expected that job to last, I would have been looking for a high-MPG car regardless of how many people / how much luggage it could carry. If that car was the only one made by PMW {Pentax Motor Works}, I would expect someone who needed to carry luggage to go to another manufacturer, rather than complain over-and-over again. The is an example of what I mean when I talk about the "all purpose camera myth" - some one who has interests focused in one area will very gladly give up capability that others would consider to be essential.

added: From 1979-95 I was a happy Pentax user. When I was ready to go to AF, I strongly disliked what Pentax was doing at the time, so I quietly went to Canon, whose USM lenses were the best in my view. Even if there had been an Internet forum, I would have simply gone. Pentax and Canon had made their decisions, and so I made mine. I came back to Pentax this past summer; I still like Canon lenses, but I now like Pentax bodies even more. Again, I did not complain {even though I was member of an Internet forum} - Pentax and Canon had made their decisions, and so I made mine.

Last edited by reh321; 04-04-2016 at 11:02 AM. Reason: added comment
04-04-2016, 11:08 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
(though how anyone can live with that focus point selection is beyond me... the K-1 is a bit better, but still far from good. I really can't get used to it, and Pentax insisting on this system is baffling, cause they could just let us change how the buttons behave).
Curious what the issue on this is? Press the button to change back and forth from AF point selection to menu keys? Or something else?
04-04-2016, 11:52 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Sadly the K-1 even fails me on the stills side, though nowhere near as much, and again it's just little things that could probably be fixed easily. Inverting the button that lets you tell the camera that you want to select the focus point. Do bracketing, but instead of different exposures let the sensor move into each corner.
While I agree on the video and SR "problem", this doesn't sound reasonable at all.
You will not buy the camera because it doesn't do a little trick that would increase the resolution slightly by using the worst part of the image circle (never intended to be used as it is outside the FF area). What would you possible gain by doing that? Is 36Mp resolution to low? Are the lenses not wide enough?
04-04-2016, 01:20 PM   #148
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It's a ridiculous complaint - with the Pixel Shift Resolution, the K-1 should offer the best image quality of any "full frame" camera, for reasonably still subjects.
If he's complaining about this, I doubt kadajawi had any intention of buying the Pentax.
04-04-2016, 01:42 PM - 1 Like   #149
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In a surprising twist (!) I'm going to jump to kadajawi's defence here... He's a K-5 user (and a mostly happy one), but since that model was released, the subsequent Pentax models haven't fitted his specific requirements. I think I now realise that he's not criticising those models, or Ricoh, as widely as it originally seemed. He's just frustrated that his specific requirements aren't being met. Personally, I never expect all of my requirements to be met fully, and I'm happy to accept a compromise that does most of what I'd like really well - but kadajawi has very specific requirements and expectations which - sadly - I feel will be difficult to satisfy fully, right now, with Pentax or any other brand.

Last edited by BigMackCam; 04-04-2016 at 01:52 PM.
04-04-2016, 02:17 PM - 1 Like   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
In a surprising twist (!) I'm going to jump to kadajawi's defence here... He's a K-5 user (and a mostly happy one), but since that model was released, the subsequent Pentax models haven't fitted his specific requirements. I think I now realise that he's not criticising those models, or Ricoh, as widely as it originally seemed. He's just frustrated that his specific requirements aren't being met. Personally, I never expect all of my requirements to be met fully, and I'm happy to accept a compromise that does most of what I'd like really well - but kadajawi has very specific requirements and expectations which - sadly - I feel will be difficult to satisfy fully, right now, with Pentax or any other brand.
I think that's it for a lot of folks. It's frustrating when you get wound up over something really neat, but then find out it doesn't do that one (or several) thing that would push it into the "buy" category...

I wish the K1 had good 4k video, but I also wish it had intermediate crop settings, a flash, an aperture lever, and a square mode, but the things it does have that I care about made me order it anyway.

Now if Pentax announces a K.1 next year that adds those things at the expense of some things I don't care about, then I'll trade. Otherwise, I'll be OK with what it does have, I think.

As to the manual (remember Alice? This is a song about Alice), it does seem to be more a reference guide than instructions, and some of those modes are going to take some work to really get right... I'm not looking forward to calibrating "spouse mode". The green box on the old PZ20 was a lot easier :-)

-Eric
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