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04-04-2016, 03:51 PM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I almost provided a similar analogy earlier {except I would have used the word "trunk" instead of "boot"}. There are cars made with a very small "boot" {or perhaps none at all}. Four years ago I was driving a round-trip of 150 miles each day to-from work. I doubt if I opened the trunk more than once a month. I didn't need a back seat. What I needed was a car that would efficiently carry one person and virtually no luggage. If I had expected that job to last, I would have been looking for a high-MPG car regardless of how many people / how much luggage it could carry. If that car was the only one made by PMW {Pentax Motor Works}, I would expect someone who needed to carry luggage to go to another manufacturer, rather than complain over-and-over again. The is an example of what I mean when I talk about the "all purpose camera myth" - some one who has interests focused in one area will very gladly give up capability that others would consider to be essential.

added: From 1979-95 I was a happy Pentax user. When I was ready to go to AF, I strongly disliked what Pentax was doing at the time, so I quietly went to Canon, whose USM lenses were the best in my view. Even if there had been an Internet forum, I would have simply gone. Pentax and Canon had made their decisions, and so I made mine. I came back to Pentax this past summer; I still like Canon lenses, but I now like Pentax bodies even more. Again, I did not complain {even though I was member of an Internet forum} - Pentax and Canon had made their decisions, and so I made mine.
The difference is that the camera is capable of doing what I want, but they chose not to give access to it. Understandable when Canon does it... they don't want you to buy a $500 camera when you're willing to spend $5000 to get that feature. Not so much when Pentax does it.

The K-1 is a great camera, or at least it looks like it is going to be, and if all I ever had to do was stills, yeah, I'd be in queue, despite a few smaller drawbacks for stills.

@jatrax: I depend on muscle memory. Ideally the left right up down button should by default be for selecting AF points (a menu point that lets me configure the camera that way is fine). I used focus point selection ALL THE TIME on my *istDS. If I wanted to access ISO, WB etc. I had to press the Fn button, and could then select ISO. Despite having to use that frequently I was happy. Fn, up, select ISO. I rarely ever use focus point selection (usually only in live view) with my K-5. Having to switch back and forth, not knowing without having to look, is terrible. According to the manual I can set the K-1 so that I have to press a button and then up, down, ... to select focus points. Depending on the button placement that can be ok, but it's not ideal. The functions that are now underneath up, down etc. are nowhere near as important as it used to be. White balance? I only care about that when shooting video. And my camera is always set to burst. Why don't they let users set it so that by default, focus point selection is active, and the other features are only accessed by pressing another button first. Just an option in the menu. Will what is printed on the button be wrong? Yeah. So what. We aren't stupid.

On APS-C cameras you can mount FF lenses, which means when doing sensor shift bracketing the result will be great. I did it relatively frequently for work, even though it's very troublesome and has lots of potential for time consuming errors. You have to go to the menu, select the sensor shift option, move the sensor, press ok, take a photo, go to menu, say that you understand that the sensor position is reset because you told it to go to the menu, select the sensor shift option, ... The quality, even with the 18-55mm kit lens, is good enough. It's not about the resolution (to me), it's about getting a wider frame when you can't move back any further. Is it so important with the FF? Perhaps not. Would it be a neat trick? Yeah. And probably rather trivial to implement (the stitching doesn't have to happen in camera). It would be another nice way to make use of sensor shift in a creative way, as they have done with the Astrotracer function.

I don't need extreme resolutions, the 16 MP of my K-5 do the trick for me, though I wouldn't complain about 36 MP either.

04-04-2016, 04:33 PM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Ideally the left right up down button should by default be for selecting AF points (a menu point that lets me configure the camera that way is fine). I used focus point selection ALL THE TIME on my *istDS. If I wanted to access ISO, WB etc. I had to press the Fn button, and could then select ISO. Despite having to use that frequently I was happy. Fn, up, select ISO. I rarely ever use focus point selection (usually only in live view) with my K-5. Having to switch back and forth, not knowing without having to look, is terrible. According to the manual I can set the K-1 so that I have to press a button and then up, down, ... to select focus points. Depending on the button placement that can be ok, but it's not ideal.
Yeah, that's what I thought. And I agree 100%. Going to the menu should be optional, focus point selection should be the default. There is a new option on the K-1 but from what I read it is backwards. You have to press a button to get access to the focus points. Should be the other way around, or give the user the option to select which function should be the default.
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I did it relatively frequently for work, even though it's very troublesome and has lots of potential for time consuming errors. You have to go to the menu, select the sensor shift option, move the sensor, press ok, take a photo, go to menu, say that you understand that the sensor position is reset because you told it to go to the menu, select the sensor shift option, ... The quality, even with the 18-55mm kit lens, is good enough. It's not about the resolution (to me), it's about getting a wider frame when you can't move back any further. Is it so important with the FF? Perhaps not. Would it be a neat trick? Yeah.
Also agree it is a neat function, not sure it gains as much on the K-1 because you already have 36mp so less need. There is on the K-1 a simpler method of accessing this function, according to a post I read this morning. Have not seen it myself yet but supposedly it can be accessed through the control panel menu. Would be cool as an option on the smart function dial with an e-dial to move up-down, left-right.
04-04-2016, 04:39 PM - 1 Like   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
lso agree it is a neat function, not sure it gains as much on the K-1 because you already have 36mp so less need. There is on the K-1 a simpler method of accessing this function, according to a post I read this morning. Have not seen it myself yet but supposedly it can be accessed through the control panel menu. Would be cool as an option on the smart function dial with an e-dial to move up-down, left-right.
Actually, when I look at the K-1's new smart function selection dial, I do think they missed an opportunity here. Several of the function selections are for items that don't necessarily gain a huge benefit from being adjustable with a dial. It would have been great if Ricoh had given up three of the positions to custom-defined selections, so that users could decide what they'd like to control in this way...
04-04-2016, 05:01 PM - 1 Like   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Actually, when I look at the K-1's new smart function selection dial, I do think they missed an opportunity here. Several of the function selections are for items that don't necessarily gain a huge benefit from being adjustable with a dial. It would have been great if Ricoh had given up three of the positions to custom-defined selections, so that users could decide what they'd like to control in this way...
+1. Or allowed optional functions via the setup menu like the Fx buttons. I can think of several things that would be nice to have on that wheel.

04-05-2016, 03:09 AM   #155
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Ricoh Imaging is giving us the long awaited FF DSLR, and people are busy talking about what's "missing", what could be "improved" upon etc. Shouldn't we instead think of how we could use it? How to make most of the new facilities, instead of being fixated on what's not there?

The new interface elements... 3 custom settings would be IMO overkill, that would be 3 unmarked settings, each with multiple possibilities - and you'd have to remember which is which, and the current setting would have to be somehow displayed somewhere, along with the value being changed. 3 of the marked settings would have to go, which is not an easy decision (because there isn't much room on that wheel).
One custom setting might be a more reasonable goal. But, for now, perhaps we should get used with the new interface elements; especially since the K-1 is already highly customizable. Can we easily cope with all that?
04-05-2016, 03:40 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Ricoh Imaging is giving us the long awaited FF DSLR, and people are busy talking about what's "missing", what could be "improved" upon etc. Shouldn't we instead think of how we could use it? How to make most of the new facilities, instead of being fixated on what's not there?
+1 - all design is compromise, and I'm sure Ricoh thought long and hard about what they want to deliver and for whom - it's not as simple as saying I want this, but not that - not all feature sets are compatible and there has to a logic to what is produced - too many cameras are just about cramming in features rather than making a coherent tool. Pentax have made a coherent tool for a particular target group, and it looks like it's going to deliver great images to those who want what it offers. When most people look at a picture, it's the image they see, not the camera that took it - I certainly want that to be the case in my pictures - if people are worried about the mechanics, I've not done my job properly.As has been said many,many times - if the K-1 isnt the camera for you, get the one that is: therre is no camera made that is perfect for everybody, but there are cameras with feature sets to suit most specialisms.

Last edited by ffking; 04-05-2016 at 11:35 PM.
04-05-2016, 11:11 AM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Ricoh Imaging is giving us the long awaited FF DSLR, and people are busy talking about what's "missing", what could be "improved" upon etc.
You expected something else?
04-05-2016, 11:52 AM   #158
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Nope. Unfortunately.

04-05-2016, 03:31 PM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Nope. Unfortunately.
Fortunately your expectations were met.
04-05-2016, 04:37 PM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Yeah, that's what I thought. And I agree 100%. Going to the menu should be optional, focus point selection should be the default. There is a new option on the K-1 but from what I read it is backwards. You have to press a button to get access to the focus points. Should be the other way around, or give the user the option to select which function should be the default.

Also agree it is a neat function, not sure it gains as much on the K-1 because you already have 36mp so less need. There is on the K-1 a simpler method of accessing this function, according to a post I read this morning. Have not seen it myself yet but supposedly it can be accessed through the control panel menu. Would be cool as an option on the smart function dial with an e-dial to move up-down, left-right.
There is no right or wrong, but choice is good. Some people like it the way it is now. Some will like the new option on the K-1. But others will like it the other way round. Just provide the choice.

I assigned sensor shift to the Fx button. It still is troublesome though. The reason why I'd like to have it is so I can shoot a little wider. Sometimes you just can't move the camera back any further. IMHO the right place for this feature would be next to burst modes and exposure bracketing. It would be absolutely perfect if there's a exposure bracketing + sensor shift bracketing feature.

Being able to customize the camera to hearts content would be wonderful.

@Kunzite: There's always room for improvement, and hopefully we'll get those things eventually. It doesn't make the camera any worse by talking about other things that'd be nice.
07-08-2016, 02:26 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
There is no right or wrong, but choice is good. Some people like it the way it is now. Some will like the new option on the K-1. But others will like it the other way round. Just provide the choice.

I assigned sensor shift to the Fx button. It still is troublesome though. The reason why I'd like to have it is so I can shoot a little wider. Sometimes you just can't move the camera back any further. IMHO the right place for this feature would be next to burst modes and exposure bracketing. It would be absolutely perfect if there's a exposure bracketing + sensor shift bracketing feature.

Being able to customize the camera to hearts content would be wonderful.

@Kunzite: There's always room for improvement, and hopefully we'll get those things eventually. It doesn't make the camera any worse by talking about other things that'd be nice.
Thanks for making the manual available. I wanted an English version for my K-1 and was surprised I could not find it on a Pentax site.

Tony
07-08-2016, 03:25 AM   #162
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It is available on the Ricoh Imaging website:
Operation Manuals Download : Support & Service | RICOH IMAGING
http://www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/english/support/man-pdf/k-1.pdf

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
@Kunzite: There's always room for improvement, and hopefully we'll get those things eventually. It doesn't make the camera any worse by talking about other things that'd be nice.
I'd rather try to spend my limited free time learning the K-1 and what I can do with it. Not doing that will make the camera worse - or rather, it would make me use it in a sub-optimal way which is pretty much the same thing.
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