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03-31-2016, 06:35 PM   #46
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I vote for GPS/Astro too for sure... Not sure yet how much use these features are going to see from me. I kinda like star trails haha... I will be trying them though... Do wish the video wasn't a step backward on the K-1, but I'll probably still use it on rare occasion...

03-31-2016, 07:24 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by nevermindhim Quote
I'm still tempted by the K-1 for stills of course.

...

But back to the Pentax rant... Is it really possible that more people care about GPS and Astrotracer than something as common and basic as video?
You do.. apparently.

As you should, Pentax cameras are indeed stills oriented. They always have been, I think (until we are commonly plucking stills out of a video stream at full res) they will remain a stills oriented brand (provided more stills oriented features). If I was motivated to shoot motion picture, I'd definitely not have Pentax even near my list of options.

But I don't try to shove the square peg into the round hole when it comes to trying to make a Pentax camera out to be something it isn't...
03-31-2016, 07:24 PM   #48
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Thanks a bunch!
03-31-2016, 07:46 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Big Dawg Quote
Don't give a rusty rat's arse about the video but some pentaxians do.
I agree. But the video guys are starting to sound like the FF guys a year or so ago. Every thread about anything got hijacked into "Pentax needs to make a FF camera". This isn't quite as bad but it still seems like every thread gets hijacked into "Pentax needs better video". This is a thread about the K-1 manual for crying out loud.

I am quite sure Pentax knows all about video. They looked at the market and decided high end video was not someplace they wanted to be. They provide adequate video for the occasional user and that's it. They have made that very clear, video is not what they are. Why anyone who needs high end video features hangs around here complaining instead of buying the gear they need for the job is beyond me.

The mods eventually made an entire sub-forum just to get the FF guys out of everyone else's threads. Maybe we need that for video so there is a proper place to voice the concerns.

03-31-2016, 07:51 PM   #50
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I've done a bit of video using the K3. Mostly in situations where I've gotten the stills I want, but the critter sticks around and I have the body on a tripod. I've found it perfectly adequate for what I do. My phone has IR so I can start and end the recording without jiggles. Some moments are better captured this way, and sometimes the light is so low that stills don't turn out but a video can capture details.

I suppose higher frame rate would be nice, but SR wouldn't work for me in any case.
03-31-2016, 07:56 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I agree. But the video guys are starting to sound like the FF guys a year or so ago. Every thread about anything got hijacked into "Pentax needs to make a FF camera". This isn't quite as bad but it still seems like every thread gets hijacked into "Pentax needs better video". This is a thread about the K-1 manual for crying out loud.

I am quite sure Pentax knows all about video. They looked at the market and decided high end video was not someplace they wanted to be. They provide adequate video for the occasional user and that's it. They have made that very clear, video is not what they are. Why anyone who needs high end video features hangs around here complaining instead of buying the gear they need for the job is beyond me.

The mods eventually made an entire sub-forum just to get the FF guys out of everyone else's threads. Maybe we need that for video so there is a proper place to voice the concerns.
i just called for a video Forum on the other hot thread. Lauren posted her videos again and she said maybe it could be a sticky. Make it a sticky in the new video subForum.

Seriously. If mirrorlless isn't the new FF video is.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-01-2016 at 08:17 AM.
03-31-2016, 07:58 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Yep.

To state that differently: "Is it really possible that more people care about video than something as useful as GPS and Astrotracer?"
I'm not sure I get the point. I mean, it's never going to be Hubble. If you're shooting the stars, you WANT star trails.

The only thing GPS would do for me is keep the clock sync'd... meh.

These are very, very niche features. It seems bonkers to focus on them and leave out the (modern) basics.

---------- Post added 03-31-16 at 08:03 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
So why do you stick with Pentax and not one of the other players with better video? Is it because of the still image quality? Why can't the other players deliver something as common and basic as still image quality?
The sensor-shift SR was probably the main reason I bought Pentax when I made the switch to digital (on top of having shot Pentax film bodies). And it's less about image quality, more about build quality, ergonomics, weatherproofing.

And yeah, the Canon 70D and 80D are appealing for video, but I honestly couldn't live with the stills quality (dynamic range) coming from the K-5.

Plus, I want to stick with Pentax. I like Pentax. But I also want to shoot decent quality video and only carry one camera + lenses... So something has to give.
03-31-2016, 08:06 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I agree. But the video guys are starting to sound like the FF guys a year or so ago. Every thread about anything got hijacked into "Pentax needs to make a FF camera". This isn't quite as bad but it still seems like every thread gets hijacked into "Pentax needs better video".

Maybe we need that for video so there is a proper place to voice the concerns.
Agree about a Video sub-forum - the mods could then move all these video posts into there.

But those of us who care about video, if only for occasional use, have been saying much the same thing ever since the K-3 improved some aspects of video but took a step backwards with others, especially the sensor shake reduction. That's why I use my old K-5 for short high quality handheld video filming, in preference to my K-3, even though the latter has better manual control. For tripod work, I can use the K-3 and then, the improvements show up. Just not for handheld work, and we know from K-5 that they can do better.

Maybe Ricoh will finally combine the best of K-5 and K-3 video with the next APS-C Pentax, I certainly hope so.

03-31-2016, 08:07 PM - 1 Like   #54
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Here are some samples of what I've gotten over the last while. They are fun, my technique is probably more responsible for poor quality than anything.

Video is a level of complexity far higher than stills, and if you are doing it seriously there are lots of things to learn and consider. As long as the output is of decent quality from the body, it is workable. It could be that they tried SR and found it didn't give results that were worth the design and implementation in a production body.

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03-31-2016, 08:22 PM - 1 Like   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by nevermindhim Quote
I'm not sure I get the point. I mean, it's never going to be Hubble. If you're shooting the stars, you WANT star trails.

The only thing GPS would do for me is keep the clock sync'd... meh.

These are very, very niche features. It seems bonkers to focus on them and leave out the (modern) basics.

---------- Post added 03-31-16 at 08:03 PM ----------



The sensor-shift SR was probably the main reason I bought Pentax when I made the switch to digital (on top of having shot Pentax film bodies). And it's less about image quality, more about build quality, ergonomics, weatherproofing.

And yeah, the Canon 70D and 80D are appealing for video, but I honestly couldn't live with the stills quality (dynamic range) coming from the K-5.

Plus, I want to stick with Pentax. I like Pentax. But I also want to shoot decent quality video and only carry one camera + lenses... So something has to give.
K-3 can shoot better than decent video as it is. Have you seen benjikan's or Lauren's videos?

This endless argument is similar to the flash complaints and the AF complaints.

Hoya set Pentax back five years. They have to catch a moving target, and somebody wants everything right now. Ricoh has to choose what to do first, and second and third and so on. Corporate hasn't given them $100,000,000 and 50 new engineers to do everything as well as the best in each area - and they likely won't ever do.

Those who insist this is an easy fix and express puzzlement why Pentax doesn't just turn on IBIS and give a clean HDMI out and better codec's and 1080p/60 infer Pentax are inferior engineers or benighted businessmen (which they aren't).

So I have to ask, why do you buy cameras from a company that (you infer) has second-tier employees?

I suspect we'll have a video-tuned dSLR in relatively short order. We'll see how many people pre-order.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-01-2016 at 04:14 AM.
03-31-2016, 08:29 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by nevermindhim Quote
I'm not sure I get the point. I mean, it's never going to be Hubble. If you're shooting the stars, you WANT star trails.
My point was sarcastic. For what I do GPS is almost required, but I don't jump into every thread and make a big deal about it. I'm glad the K-3II has it, I'm glad the K-1 has it. If they did not I would look at other alternatives. Astrotracer is cool but not my point, I don't need astrotracer, I do need GPS. And no you do not always want star trails, mostly you do not want star trails, that's the whole point of the astrotracer.

I feel for those that want to have good, competitive video on Pentax cameras. And if Pentax had come out and said, "we love video, we are going to be great at it", and then did not deliver I would be even more sympathetic. But they said, loud and clear we are not into video. That is remarkably blunt for a company.

But the video guys definitely have a right to have their say, I'm just suggesting they have a sub-forum in which to do that.
03-31-2016, 08:33 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by nevermindhim Quote
I'm not sure I get the point. I mean, it's never going to be Hubble. If you're shooting the stars, you WANT star trails.
The only thing GPS would do for me is keep the clock sync'd... meh.
These are very, very niche features. It seems bonkers to focus on them and leave out the (modern) basics
Are you qualified to engineer a modern camera? I have an undergraduate minor in Physics, including an "Intermediate Optics" course. In recent years I have been employed in high-tech software engineering projects, including digital radios, but I have zero competence in designing cameras, so I have to trust the expertise of Pentax engineers to design the best camera possible under the circumstances. Personally, I would greatly prefer MILC technology than "moving pictures", but neither of us got what we wanted. I believe it is totally unfair to hijack this thread by bringing up these issues. Away from here, I have seen more excitement about the K-1 than about anything else Pentax has done recently, so they must be doing some things right.

QuoteOriginally posted by nevermindhim Quote
The sensor-shift SR was probably the main reason I bought Pentax when I made the switch to digital (on top of having shot Pentax film bodies). And it's less about image quality, more about build quality, ergonomics, weatherproofing.
And yeah, the Canon 70D and 80D are appealing for video, but I honestly couldn't live with the stills quality (dynamic range) coming from the K-5.
Plus, I want to stick with Pentax. I like Pentax. But I also want to shoot decent quality video and only carry one camera + lenses... So something has to give.
Apparently the point is simply that Pentax engineers would unable to put all the things you list in this section, plus "moving pictures" into the camera under the limits they were given (size, weight, price point, time etc), so somethings did have to go, including on-board flash and "moving pictures". No one camera is going to have everything, so decisions have to be made. They have made theirs, and now we'll have to make ours.
03-31-2016, 08:42 PM   #58
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Video in a DSLR is an choice not a key feature. I do not belive any 36MP and up in FF is good at video.
03-31-2016, 09:00 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
K-3 can shoot better than decent video as it is. Have you seen benjikan's or Lauren's videos?

This endless argument is similar to the flash complaints and the AF complaints.

Hoya set Pentax back five years. They have to catch a moving target, and somebody wants everything right now. Ricoh has to choose what to do first, and second and third and so on. Corporate hasn't given them $100,000,000 and 50 new engineers to do everything as well as the best in each area - and they likely won't ever do.

Those who insist this is an easy fix and express puzzlement why Pentax doesn't just turn on IBIS and give a clean HDMI out and better codec's and 1080p/60 infer Pentax are inferior engineers or benighted businessmen (which they aren't).

So I have to ask, why do you buy cameras from a company that (you infer) has second-tier employees?

I suspect we'll have a video-tuned dSLR in relatively short order. We'll see how many people pre-order n

Yes, I have seen the videos. The K-3 video is OK, if you use a tripod, steadycam, jib, ronan etc. like Lauren. I'm not hauling any of that stuff up a mountain. K-5 still shoots better handheld video than the K-3 or the K-1. Period. A little soft is better than camera shake or jello.

I'm not sure where your attitude is coming from, but when I bought my last Pentax camera (the K-5), it had some fairly top-of-the-line video (aside from the lack of manual controls).

Because the K-1 appears to be a downgrade for video, I probably won't be buying it. I'm still holding out hope that Pentax (now that the rush to market is over) will add the option to the firmware to enable sensor-shift in video mode.

One of the attractive things about Fuji for me right now is their apparent commitment to continually improving the firmware of their cameras... Pentax could learn a thing or two there (the K-5 still has some rather big bugs that never got fixed, and that's certainly worth being cautious about going forward with Pentax).

---------- Post added 03-31-16 at 09:06 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Are you qualified to engineer a modern camera? I have an undergraduate minor in Physics, including an "Intermediate Optics" course. In recent years I have been employed in high-tech software engineering projects, including digital radios, but I have zero competence in designing cameras, so I have to trust the expertise of Pentax engineers to design the best camera possible under the circumstances. Personally, I would greatly prefer MILC technology than "moving pictures", but neither of us got what we wanted. I believe it is totally unfair to hijack this thread by bringing up these issues. Away from here, I have seen more excitement about the K-1 than about anything else Pentax has done recently, so they must be doing some things right.


Apparently the point is simply that Pentax engineers would unable to put all the things you list in this section, plus "moving pictures" into the camera under the limits they were given (size, weight, price point, time etc), so somethings did have to go, including on-board flash and "moving pictures". No one camera is going to have everything, so decisions have to be made. They have made theirs, and now we'll have to make ours.
Ok, Dad.

---------- Post added 03-31-16 at 09:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Video in a DSLR is an choice not a key feature. I do not belive any 36MP and up in FF is good at video.
I think all the A7RII shooters out there would disagree with you.
03-31-2016, 09:25 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Grizzly bath time
I really enjoyed those. How dare you! Very nice work. Looked like it was a pretty warm bath for that momma bear.
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