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04-03-2016, 09:01 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
It is 500mm. If it wobbles it is because I touched the body to start and stop the video. Or because it was a hot day. I doubt if SR would make a difference. It doesn't in stills at that length. The tripod and gimbal are also a compromise; If I wanted something very stable that would not shake if I touched it, I would not have it with me when I run into situations like this because it is too heavy. I am very well aware that there are no easy answers, every benefit comes at a cost, money and function.

I would be interested if I could put the thing on a dampened tripod, and follow a bird in flight. In focus, as sharp as I get my stills. If I spent twice my annual income I suspect I could get something like that. Otherwise it is just a toy, some fun. That particular day I was too far to get a good stills shot, the video is interesting only because it captured an interesting moment. On a technical level it sucks, as did the stills from that day.

My frustration with using a dslr for video is that it is profoundly unsuited. Sure it can work, but ultimately it is a compromise. I can focus quite well through the viewfinder but not on an lcd screen. Focus peaking helps, but how do you focus at arms length looking at an lcd and keep the thing stable? It demands a tripod and larger screen. Or a well designed EVF. But EVF's available now are profoundly unsuited for what I do primarily, and I wouldn't buy one even if it gives me good video.

For me what I would need for video wouldn't fit in a stills body, so I'm content with the limited ability of what this offering has. It promises to be very capable for stills. That is why I'm interested in it.

What I see around here are either goPro type video or serious Red or equivalent professional gear. Or the ubiquitous phone. Maybe Ricoh is seeing that the dslr/video is at the tail end of it's market usefulness, and would rather put their efforts into something they can sell in the next couple years. It seems that the market is segmenting into video capable with low/moderate stills function, or stills capable with low/moderate video function. Both the stills people and the video people are getting more discriminating. The moment that their respective needs converged into one device has probably passed.
500mm before or after crop? But yes, that's very long, but I still think SR could at least get rid of the wobble. If it is just heat, than no of course. SR really has few disadvantages, and all of them can be gotten rid of by turning off SR in the menu. The same can't be said of Movie SR, which does always have disadvantages, even when off.

I think those new mirrorless cameras can do it, but I wonder if you can follow the bird at that focal length... Professional large sensor cameras don't have AF at all (apart from a few Canon that aren't at the high end).

I can focus reasonably well using the LCD when there is shallow DoF... it's hard when stopped down though. Keeping the thing stable... that's what the SR does. I don't need, I don't want 100% stability. I want some movement. However I do agree that it is a compromise, but since I want to and have to do both, stills and video, having one camera that is great at stills and good at video is all I need. A camera that is great at video would be terrible at stills, while costing 5-10x as much. As for the screen... I'd like to see a higher res screen. There are 5.5" screens with 4K resolution on the market (for example the Sony Z5 Premium has one... 806ppi and 8 MP). Yet we are stuck with a 1.04 MP screen (is it even that, or are they counting each pixel 3 times? IIRC that is quite common, so resolution will be roughly 640x480 or so) on the K-1 (and other DSLRs). Doesn't mean we need a 5.5" 4K screen on the camera, but a 3.2" with at least 1920x1200 would be good. For those who need an EVF, just use an attachment that turns the screen into a viewfinder. I suppose processing power/battery life is holding the screens back, cause otherwise there are plenty of high quality high resolution screens out there.

I am interested in the stills side of it, but can't justify spending so much on a compromise that big. To be fair to Pentax, any other camera would be a compromise for me too, I haven't found the right one, regardless of price. Pentax is really close to delivering the right camera for my purposes (stills in general and corporate videos), but the flaws it does have are fatal. I'd rather shoot with a K-5 than a K-1, and that is sad. Especially given that video in the K-5 is really an afterthought, like there are no manual controls, video mode isn't easily accessible, and on and on.

Anyway, maybe we can move this discussion to the video section of the forum...?

04-03-2016, 09:35 AM - 1 Like   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by nevermindhim Quote
Indeed. Even if Ricoh were inclined to listen to their customer base, everyone who knows or cares about the issue is being bullied for daring to mention it, so it's unlikely that they'd read about it here...
The reason for this is people are sick of seeing the same points be repeated ad infinitem and any an thread on new Ricoh cameras - particularly the K-1 - being hijacked and literally spammed with the same old points and arguments - even in topics that have nothing to do with video.

If you don't feel Ricoh is monitoring these threads why do you persist on carrying on. One of the other posters was right and there should be a specific thread or section for the topic of video. That way one would have to wade ankle deep through threads flooded with the same old points, arguments, complaints and insults.
04-03-2016, 09:38 AM   #123
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By a small minority, who are video bullies.
04-03-2016, 09:56 AM   #124
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Well they are not shouting for something unreasonable, switch on the mechanical SR, that's it. It's already in the camera, use it.

I find it more annoying all those that are oppose it, and goes on how they wouldn't use it anyway, and besides it would be better to buy something else and carry that along as well. Much better then switching on the already available SR.

If you don't like mechanical SR while shooting video, you don't have to use it. So why are you fighting it?

04-03-2016, 09:56 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
The reason for this is people are sick of seeing the same points be repeated ad infinitem and any an thread on new Ricoh cameras - particularly the K-1 - being hijacked and literally spammed with the same old points and arguments - even in topics that have nothing to do with video.

If you don't feel Ricoh is monitoring these threads why do you persist on carrying on. One of the other posters was right and there should be a specific thread or section for the topic of video. That way one would have to wade ankle deep through threads flooded with the same old points, arguments, complaints and insults.
So, let me get this right... You can say what ever you want about whatever you want and I'm supposed to just deal with it, but I can't say what I want because the truth annoys you?

Speaking of where I'm going to end up. I've been reading about the X-Pro2 on the fujix forums (sounds like there are a number of outstanding problems, but that's beside the point): In an entire thread critical of the X-Pro2 (discussing the actual, factual problems with the camera), I didn't see a single abusive, why-don't-you-switch-to-nikon type comment. Maybe it's just better moderated over there, but I have to say, it was a breath of fresh air compared to this bunch.
04-03-2016, 10:21 AM - 2 Likes   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by nevermindhim Quote
So, let me get this right... You can say what ever you want about whatever you want and I'm supposed to just deal with it, but I can't say what I want because the truth annoys you?

Speaking of where I'm going to end up. I've been reading about the X-Pro2 on the fujix forums (sounds like there are a number of outstanding problems, but that's beside the point): In an entire thread critical of the X-Pro2 (discussing the actual, factual problems with the camera), I didn't see a single abusive, why-don't-you-switch-to-nikon type comment. Maybe it's just better moderated over there, but I have to say, it was a breath of fresh air compared to this bunch.
Here's the deal: You have the right to think and say whatever is on your mind. But there is civility to consider.
  1. This is supposed to be a Friendly Pentax DIscussion Forum. Tone matters. Leading with the assumption that Ricoh is deaf to customers or has not done something transparently evident so by definition they've made a terrible business decision will get you the responses you've gotten
  2. This is a thread about the K-1 Manual. Or it was. Persistent hijacking of the thread has ruined that discussion - which will get you the responses you've gotten
  3. You and a small number of members have made your point, repeatedly, here and elsewhere - to the point of annoyance. Others responded with reasonable opinions as to why Pentax hasn't done what you suggest - prinicipally a supposition that they have an issue with heat in the very compact body. When you then continue to disparage Pentax against reasoable suggestions - as if you aren't hearing the comments - your posts will get you the responses you've gotten.
  4. In my opinion, reasonable people do not behave this way. Your behavior causes reasonable people, who have had this discussion many, many times before, to question your motives, which will get you the responses you've gotten.
  5. QuoteQuote:
    an entire thread "dedicated to discussion of the problems with X-Pro 2"
  6. Capice'?
So who is the bully?

Just askin'. *


* Suggestion: Go into the K-1 Forum or the FF Forum and open a 'dedicated thread' to discuss the failure of Pentax to enable IBIS for video on the K-1.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-03-2016 at 04:59 PM.
04-03-2016, 10:31 AM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Well they are not shouting for something unreasonable, switch on the mechanical SR, that's it. It's already in the camera, use it.

I find it more annoying all those that are oppose it, and goes on how they wouldn't use it anyway, and besides it would be better to buy something else and carry that along as well. Much better then switching on the already available SR.

If you don't like mechanical SR while shooting video, you don't have to use it. So why are you fighting it?
See above.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-03-2016 at 10:38 AM.
04-03-2016, 11:02 AM - 1 Like   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
My frustration with using a dslr for video is that it is profoundly unsuited. Sure it can work, but ultimately it is a compromise. I can focus quite well through the viewfinder but not on an lcd screen. Focus peaking helps, but how do you focus at arms length looking at an lcd and keep the thing stable? It demands a tripod and larger screen. Or a well designed EVF. But EVF's available now are profoundly unsuited for what I do primarily, and I wouldn't buy one even if it gives me good video.

For me what I would need for video wouldn't fit in a stills body, so I'm content with the limited ability of what this offering has. It promises to be very capable for stills. That is why I'm interested in it.

What I see around here are either goPro type video or serious Red or equivalent professional gear. Or the ubiquitous phone. Maybe Ricoh is seeing that the dslr/video is at the tail end of it's market usefulness, and would rather put their efforts into something they can sell in the next couple years. It seems that the market is segmenting into video capable with low/moderate stills function, or stills capable with low/moderate video function. Both the stills people and the video people are getting more discriminating. The moment that their respective needs converged into one device has probably passed.
This is exactly what I was trying to say in #108 above. In 1976 I used some gift money to buy a 110 pocket camera; it was not a great camera, but often it was the best {only} camera I had {with me}. For the next 30 years I had a primary camera and a pocket camera. When I moved to digital, I got a compact camera with the thought that it could serve both roles; nine months later, when our older daughter accidentally destroyed the LCD on her camera, I gave that camera to her, grateful to have an opportunity to rectify my mistake; I had learned that a compromise camera cannot do all jobs well {in that case, it wasn't doing any job well}. I understand having a camera optimized for still photography that can be used to take video if nothing else is available, or having a camera optimized for video that can be used to take still pictures if nothing else is available, but I'm still not convinced that it makes sense to buy just one camera expecting it to be top-notch at two such disparate tasks.

04-03-2016, 11:29 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Here's the deal: You have the right to think and say whatever is on your mind. But there is civility to consider.[LIST=1][*]This is supposed to be a Friendly Pentax DIscussion Forum. Tone matters. Leading with the assumption that Ricoh is deaf to customers or has not done something transparently evident so by definition they've made a terrible business decision will get you the responses you've gotten
How about those who want to have a consistent way of selecting the focus point? Who want to have the cursor buttons always act for focus point selection (again, as was done a long time ago). It would be trivial to implement, and they've at least implemented the reverse (not ideal, but hey, at least something!), but are they giving the option of setting up the camera that way? Nope.

They just keep insisting on their way.

Is it so unreasonable to think they are deaf to customers?

@reh321: There are plenty of professional (i.e. paid) videographers shooting video with DSLRs. They could buy a video camera. They didn't. Their stuff is on the web, on TV, in cinemas. Philip Bloom is shooting a documentary series for CNN, a very beautiful, well shot one. The Sony A7S is an important part of his toolbag, and he owns plenty of cameras. Yes, he also uses the Sony FS5, which is important too, but that's $5600 before lenses, APS-C and not good for stills.

Besides we don't expect top notch performance, though Pentax could do it in certain areas, we just hope Pentax makes use of the hardware that's there. Even if the camera gets hot... so what? Some people shoot in cold regions, where heat is less of an issue. Some people don't shoot for 2 hours straight, or when they do, they put their camera on a tripod and don't need the SR much anyway.

You'd complain if they'd take away a feature you like, even if few people do. Astrophotographers will complain when the astrotracer gets removed, even though GPS is still there, SR is still there. That's what they did to us.
04-03-2016, 11:48 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Here's the deal: You have the right to think and say whatever is on your mind. But there is civility to consider.
I say, good grief, just don't buy the K-1 already.

---------- Post added 04-03-2016 at 12:49 PM ----------

This is a 9 page discussion about a download for a manual. Clearly, this thread was complete by page 2.

Last edited by Clinton; 04-04-2016 at 06:42 AM.
04-03-2016, 03:16 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clinton Quote
This is a 7 page discussion about a download for a manual. Clearly, this thread was complete by page 2.
Were on page 9...
04-03-2016, 03:32 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I'm still not convinced that it makes sense to buy just one camera expecting it to be top-notch at two such disparate tasks.
I agree wholeheartedly - if we look at forum posts (here and, importantly, elsewhere) and reviews, we find that every single camera has strengths and weaknesses across its feature set (if the perfect camera had already been released, none of us would buy anything else). Just how good a particular camera - any product, in fact - is, will be highly subjective to the individual (prospective) owner. I wish my 4x4 car had a slightly bigger engine, slightly better fuel consumption, selectable low and high gearbox ratios, and premium leather seats - but it doesn't. I wish my breadmaker could tell me when it has finished all of its kneading cycle so I can choose to take the dough out, shape it, and cook it in my oven instead - but it doesn't. I wish the toothpick insert on my Swiss Army knife was just a little bit more robust and not prone to bending - but it's not. They're all great products, though, and I really don't see much point in getting frustrated over their weaknesses, when it's their strengths I benefit from and am most interested in. And if those benefits aren't good enough to justify my owning the product, I can choose to buy a different one - from the same or different manufacturer. Really very, very simple. I just don't see the point of getting wound up over what could have been - I'd rather spend my time accepting what is and getting the best from it

EDIT: I have a Panasonic TZ-70 (ZS-50 elsewhere) superzoom compact. It is good at just two things - it has a huge zoom range, and it's genuinely very compact. In every other way I can't think how anyone would consider it to be a great camera. The IQ leaves a great deal to be desired, with the combination of a tiny sensor and that one-size-fits-all zoom lens - but I can take it everywhere, and get shots I otherwise simply wouldn't get. On those occasions, it's the best camera in the world

Last edited by BigMackCam; 04-03-2016 at 03:40 PM.
04-03-2016, 03:41 PM   #133
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Sorry to sidetrack this thread but I would like to ask to those who will buy the K-1 :
Do you find this manual any better than the one provided with the K3 ? I.E.: more "complete" ?
Thanks !
04-03-2016, 05:29 PM   #134
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I agree, boring bringing the same message about video, most of us know what you want. But please stop diverting thread regarding your need . This will not change the reality of K-1.
04-03-2016, 06:35 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Do you find this manual any better than the one provided with the K3 ? I.E.: more "complete" ?
So far I don't. It seems to have everything listed but as with other previous manuals just a list of features and options with little info on what they do or why to use them. Not bad really, in fact no worse than other manuals but the need for a book on how to use those features is going to be high.
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