Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-07-2016, 08:53 PM   #16
Site Supporter
i83N's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lithuania
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,153
I hear you.

04-07-2016, 11:26 PM   #17
Pentaxian
Tjompen1968's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,322
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Ikarus Quote
The diffraction-limited depth of field is constant for all sensor sizes, so if it already hits you at f11 on APS-C, it will hit you even harder at f22 on FF.
It has a dependensy off the size of the pixels so the diffraction will occur later with the K-1 than the K-3. But since the sensor is larger the DOF will be shallower at a given focal length...
04-08-2016, 01:26 AM   #18
Veteran Member
Ikarus's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: California
Photos: Albums
Posts: 462
QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
It has a dependensy off the size of the pixels so the diffraction will occur later with the K-1 than the K-3.
If you enter the data of the K-1 and the K-3 in the calculator here, you'll find that the K-1 at f/22 is closer to being diffraction limited than the K-3 at f/11.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
But since the sensor is larger the DOF will be shallower at a given focal length...
Sure, that's why it makes no sense to compare diffraction between formats at anything other than the equivalent focal length and f-stop.

Last edited by Ikarus; 04-08-2016 at 01:36 AM.
04-08-2016, 03:48 AM   #19
Pentaxian
Tjompen1968's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,322
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Ikarus Quote
If you enter the data of the K-1 and the K-3 in the calculator here, you'll find that the K-1 at f/22 is closer to being diffraction limited than the K-3 at f/11.



Sure, that's why it makes no sense to compare diffraction between formats at anything other than the equivalent focal length and f-stop.
When I enter 24 MP crop sensor and f/8 it says Limited, f/5.6 not limited

When I enter 36 MP FF sensor f/11 it says Limited, f/8 not limited

I have made IRL tests using different lenses and visible diffraction comes later than in these calculators. Also it differs between lenses.

Using Tamron 17-50 it started 1 stop earlier than when using the Pentax 16-50.

I keep doing what I always do. I take a test shot.


Last edited by Tjompen1968; 04-08-2016 at 05:37 AM.
04-08-2016, 04:34 AM   #20
Pentaxian
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Posts: 3,068
I to have been a bit flat awaiting the K-1, so went to the beach with my DFA 150-450 and K3 yesterday and got chased home by Zombies chanting "go home and wait for your K-1, we will not be cropped" weird..

see I'm not lying... being a bit tough I did slap them around a bit with some F14 diffraction before running home screaming like a girl.


Zombies on Goolwa Beach.jpg
by Noel Leahy, on Flickr
04-08-2016, 04:46 AM   #21
Site Supporter
Zygonyx's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ile de France
Posts: 3,061
QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
When I enter 24 MP crop sensor and f/8 it says Limited, f/5.6 not limited

When I enter 36 MP FF sensor f/11 it says Limited, f/8 not limited

I have made IRL tests using different lenses and visible diffraction comes later than in these calculators. Also it differs between lenses.

Using Tamron 17-50 it started 1 stop earlier than when using the Pentax 16-50.

I keep doing what I alwas do. I take a test shot.

Good practice.
I have "no-visible diffraction samples" with K20D and FA31/1.8 @ f22...
04-08-2016, 05:55 AM   #22
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,761
QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
and got chased home by Zombies
They look like something from Lovecraft, coming out of the water with all the mist in the near-dark...

With all the screaming that gets done about diffraction setting in at f/11 or even lower, why do so many Pentax lenses of both older and more current vintage go to f/32? I note that almost all of my normal or near-normal Taks stop at f/16, as does a pre-A Vivitar 28/2.8 that I own, but it surprised me to see that my Rikenon 55/1.2 also stops at f/16 and that's roughly contemporary with the Pentax A lenses.
04-08-2016, 10:36 AM - 1 Like   #23
Veteran Member
Ikarus's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: California
Photos: Albums
Posts: 462
QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
When I enter 24 MP crop sensor and f/8 it says Limited, f/5.6 not limited

When I enter 36 MP FF sensor f/11 it says Limited, f/8 not limited
Ok, it seems you also changed the print size from 10" to 24" in order to get such low limits. Anyway, the key point here is that one should not expect the K-1 at f/22 to outperform the K-3 at f/11 in terms of diffraction. So, to those folks who feel like their lowly K-3 or K-5 is not not up to snuff anymore with the K-1 on the horizon, I say this - just go out and shoot, it really ain't all that bad.

04-08-2016, 11:28 AM   #24
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,749
QuoteOriginally posted by Ikarus Quote
Anyway, the key point here is that one should not expect the K-1 at f/22 to outperform the K-3 at f/11 in terms of diffraction.
I think most folks that have expressed an opinion seem to expect a 1 stop improvement going from APS-C to FF. Based on that I would look to see the K-1 perform better at f/16 than the k-3 at f/11. But f/22 is two stops and that might be a reach. If I understand what you are saying.
04-08-2016, 03:35 PM   #25
Veteran Member
Ikarus's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: California
Photos: Albums
Posts: 462
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I think most folks that have expressed an opinion seem to expect a 1 stop improvement going from APS-C to FF. Based on that I would look to see the K-1 perform better at f/16 than the k-3 at f/11. But f/22 is two stops and that might be a reach. If I understand what you are saying.
For the equivalent shot on FF you have no choice but stopping down to f' = f*1.5 in order to match an APS-C camera in DOF and AOV, but diffraction at the equivalent DOF and AOV is independent of sensor size, so the K-1 will do about as well at f/16, as the K-3 does at f/11.

Last edited by Ikarus; 04-08-2016 at 04:09 PM.
04-08-2016, 08:20 PM   #26
mee
Pentaxian




Join Date: May 2010
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,880
QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
I sold my K-5IIS last week. I figured by the time the K-1 arrives there would be so many for sale in the marketplace that it would be impossible to get a decent price for it. I am going through withdrawal though and do not have a film camera to fall back on. It is supposed be gray and rainy this weekend, which will help somewhat. I placed a wanted listing for a used K-3II in the market place. Maybe I will get lucky :-)
haha playing the market.. somewhat risky.

Even if you don't get a nice deal on a gently used K-3 II, you might find a K-5IIs for less than you sold it.
04-08-2016, 08:59 PM   #27
Site Supporter
loveisageless's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oakland, California
Photos: Albums
Posts: 992
QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
haha playing the market.. somewhat risky.

Even if you don't get a nice deal on a gently used K-3 II, you might find a K-5IIs for less than you sold it.
I'm actually considering forgoing the K-1 in favor of a K-3II. I recently upgraded my computer after my Mac Mini crashed. I used the Mini with a 27" Apple Thunderbolt display. The current Mini models do not allow for enough processing power, graphics capability, storage, or user memory upgrade. To get the specs I wanted (trying to future proof the new computer as much as possible) I wound up having to consider an iMac. I purchased a refurbished 27" iMac with 5K display. The Thunderbolt monitor I had was no slouch resolution wise and I would have kept it if I could have gotten what I wanted spec wise in a new Mini. Last night I was reviewing my picture catalogue on this new computer and I was absolutely floored by the resolution. The pictures I was looking at ranged from 10 to 24 megapixels files. I had no idea that the images were capable of such resolution or such a broad color gamut. Makes me think about the impact a display's resolution has on the perceived image resolution and color rendition produced by a given camera and lens. The photos indicated that the cameras used had much better resolution and color depth than I was ever aware they could produce. I had images taken with a K-10 that were stunning at 27". I don't often print photos, and when I do, they are not 27" ones, so I am rethinking whether 36 megapixels or a FF sensor are really necessary for my purposes.
04-08-2016, 11:37 PM   #28
Pentaxian
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Posts: 3,068
QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
I don't often print photos, and when I do, they are not 27" ones, so I am rethinking whether 36 megapixels or a FF sensor are really necessary for my purposes.
I'm similar in my thoughts, but my knees need a flippy screen......
04-09-2016, 12:22 AM   #29
Site Supporter
loveisageless's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oakland, California
Photos: Albums
Posts: 992
QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I'm similar in my thoughts, but my knees need a flippy screen......
My knees aren't so bad, but the hereditary hand tremor is. The five axis stabilization may be the deciding factor
04-09-2016, 12:42 AM - 2 Likes   #30
Pentaxian
noelpolar's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Goolwa, SA
Posts: 3,068
QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
My knees aren't so bad, but the hereditary hand tremor is. The five axis stabilization may be the deciding factor
Yes, the K-1 could be marketed as a "Special assistance Camera" , for those that can't bend (floppy screen), see all that well (led lights), hold things steady (5 axis), forget where you are/were (GPS), have fits (flash removed), have compulsive collecting disorder (old K lenses) etc etc....

Last edited by noelpolar; 04-09-2016 at 01:13 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
dslr, full frame, full-frame, images, joy, k-1, k1, pentax, pentax k-1, photography, photos, wait, weekend
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Machinery The evolution of the threshing machine RGlasel Post Your Photos! 4 02-28-2016 12:31 PM
Can't wait much longer for the FF ClinchShots Pentax Full Frame 84 03-27-2015 05:05 AM
Landscape Wait for the next day David Cardoso Post Your Photos! 2 05-15-2014 04:37 AM
A post-processing dream machine? George Lama Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 3 01-28-2009 05:02 AM
My K1D dream machine … for the end of 2008 RaduA Pentax News and Rumors 34 01-30-2008 11:15 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:24 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top