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04-27-2016, 01:35 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by funktionsfrei Quote


And the stated claim is "compatibility with every K-mount lens ever made" not "compatibility with pentax-made K-mount lenses only".
Technically, it's not a K-mount lens (or at least not a K-AF one - the bayonet is an open standard, but the electronics/communications specs are proprietary and licensesd for a fee by Pentax ). Your lens is a knockoff that in most cases is functionally similar.

I don't understand why people celebrate Sigma because of their low prices and lately quite high quality optics, but when the various sacrifices in construction and design that Sigma makes in order to keep their prices low and glass quality high surface, they get all bent out of shape.

Accept it or not, that's the deal you made when you bought a Sigma "K-type" lens rather than a real K-AF mount lens (as produced by Pentax, Tamron, and several other manufacturers).

04-27-2016, 01:38 PM   #17
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funktionsfrei, that is a real shame about the 70-200mm, I hope you can get the issue resolved soon!!
04-27-2016, 01:42 PM   #18
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Not true. With the Canon and Sony situations, it's always only been certain lenses that have had problems, with various models of similar generations exhibiting varying behavior. the Sony Alpha/Maxxum mount is a screwdrive mount, just like K-AF, and it varies from lens to lens with that system as well. In Sony's case, further upgrades also actually exposed the cheap plastic they were using in their gear linkages, since when they upgraded the power of their focus motors, several models started having gear teeth shear off.


QuoteOriginally posted by funktionsfrei Quote

The Canon incompability you've mentioned stems from something different. Canon steers both AF and aperture electronically on every lens. With the switch from film cameras to digital cameras (both branded "EOS"), they've slightly changed their interpretation of the protocol used to steer the aperture, thus rendering older 3rd-party lenses incompatible.

Were there a similar problem with older "3rd-party" lenses for Pentax, neither the 24-70 nor the 70-300 I've mentioned should work.
The latter even offers OIS, working, on the K-1! OK, none of them is a SDM lens. But the 8-16 is a SDM lens, and that one works on the K-1.
04-27-2016, 01:49 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
but the electronics/communications specs are proprietary and licensesd for a fee by Pentax
I am not even sure this is strictly true (not aware of any known third-party licensee). My observation for both lenses and flash is that third-party products generally do a very good job of reflecting the behavior of Pentax-brand product at the time they are made, but that incompatibilities crop up with new camera models and/or firmware updates. Pentax is very good about backward compatibility to its own products,* but cannot be expected to provide work-around behaviors for products outside its own stable.**


Steve

* One of the best examples I know of is my AF280T flash from the mid-1980s. Both my K10D and K-3 support those features that appropriate to today's cameras. I was impressed.

** Consider that Pentax does not publish their lens communication API. Neither do they publish the feature evolution of that interface. Consider too that Sigma does not publish their Pentax-compatibility API nor do the publish the evolution of that interface. The possibility that one system might send signals that the other system can't handle is enormous.

04-27-2016, 01:53 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbotron Quote
funktionsfrei, that is a real shame about the 70-200mm, I hope you can get the issue resolved soon!!
Agreed! I hope it is not an intractable communication issue. Unfortunately, Sigma has a history of not providing firmware fixes on product that have reached EOL. Ricoh can be expected to provide a stability firmware update to address this problem, but I would not expect it to create compatibility with the lens in question.

I am hoping it is just a power issue.


Steve
04-27-2016, 02:02 PM   #21
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Well, thanks for the participation. I wasn't aware of having stept right into a beehive when mentioning "Sigma" and "Pentax" in one posting.

The reason for me to use Sigma lenses is that Pentax had and/or has nothing similar on offer. Pentax just came out with their first fast 70-200; I got the offending 70-200 back in 2008 or 2009, because the K10D I then was using wasn't really a great low-light performer. Tamron's 70-200, being similarly fast, only works with screwdrive AF; for what reasons ever Tamron doesn't offer any kind of in-lens AF drive for Pentax. Thus the faster and less noisy Sigma lens was the only choice available.

Regarding rectilinear wide-angle lenses: The 8-16 is the widest APS-C lens on the market. Sigma's equivalent 12-24 is (or was?) the widest full-frame lens on the market. The widest full-frame lens Pentax offers is the new 15-30. The three millimetres difference are huge. I wouldn't want to miss these three millimetres. Pentax widest APS-C lens (besides the 10-17 fisheye, which is something completely different from a rectilinear wide-angle lens) is a 14mm lens.

Sorry; I really like Pentax' cameras (why on earth should I buy them instead?), but I'm underwhelmed by Pentax' zoom lens offerings. Primes, they make glorious ones. And mid-range zooms, like the 16-85, are excellent. But that's an APS-C lens (with severe vignetting on the K-1 on both ends).


Well, I try contacting Sigma for a statement on what their stance is on Pentax Full-Frame support. Maybe they've completely lost interest in the market; not entirely improbable, given that they've actively removed several lenses of their line-up like the already mentioned 12-24.


QuoteQuote:
Accept it or not, that's the deal you made when you bought a Sigma "K-type" lens rather than a real K-AF mount lens (as produced by Pentax, Tamron, and several other manufacturers).
Pray tell, what other manufacturers beside Pentax offer K-bajonet lenses? We're talking about AF zoom lenses here, aren't we?

---------- Post added 04-27-16 at 11:12 PM ----------

Oh, by the way, the "freeze" problem is not a power problem - the battery I've used was fully charged.
04-27-2016, 02:18 PM   #22
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This has been a longstanding gripe between Canon owners and Sigma. A faithful, but older, Sigma will often cause freezes, lockups, and error messages on a brand new body. It also happens, albeit a bit more rarely, between Nikons and Sigmas.
No doubt this is why Sigma introduced that docking station for their lenses, so firmware could be updated to remedy such problems.

Another question comes to mind, however. Why do we refer to aftermarket lenses and accessories as "third party"?

I mean, does anyone make a "second party" lens, or battery?
04-27-2016, 02:25 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ontarian50 Quote
Why do we refer to aftermarket lenses and accessories as "third party"?
That's a real good question, that even transcends the barriers between different language (in German that would be a "Drittanbieter").
Dunno.

04-27-2016, 02:50 PM   #24
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We had a rumor thread posted about this about 3 months ago, which I think got put aside hoping the K-1 firmware was still in progress.

Sorry to hear that's happening.

Have you sent your 70-200 HSM II in for service beforehand? When I first got my HSM II, it would focus on a K-5iis through the viewfinder and phase autodetect, but wouldn't autofocus through Live View's contrast detection. I sent it in to Sigma and they updated the lens's firmware, which works flawlessly now. The Sigma form service called the update the "K-7 firmware update" or some such.

I'm hoping the K-7 firmware update will prove to be a solution for the K-1 as well. I'll let you know if the K-7-updated 70-200 works on a K-1 when mine gets here.
04-27-2016, 07:05 PM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ontarian50 Quote
Another question comes to mind, however. Why do we refer to aftermarket lenses and accessories as "third party"?

I mean, does anyone make a "second party" lens, or battery?
I think the first party is the primary manufacturer, and the second party is the user.
04-27-2016, 07:37 PM - 1 Like   #26
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First and foremost, Pentax is under absolutely no obligation to ensure any of their bodies work with third party lenses. I'm sorry your lens doesn't work on the K-1 but it is not Pentax's fault. Maybe a lens service/firmware update will help, maybe not.

Secondly, I had the Sigma EX DG 70-200/2.8 II HSM Marco for several years, and I found the AF to be very skittish on the K-3, and completely non-functional on the HD DA 1.4x TC. It was much better on my older bodies (K10D, K-5 and K-5 IIs).

Last edited by Sandy Hancock; 04-27-2016 at 11:56 PM.
04-27-2016, 10:30 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I think the first party is the primary manufacturer, and the second party is the user.
This was my understanding also
04-27-2016, 11:35 PM   #28
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I'm sorry to hear about the problems with your Sigma. There has been another report of this exact problem with the same lens: Strange issue with first K1 to arrive in Greece: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

I hope and even somewhat expect Pentax to address this is a firmware update. While Pentax might not be under any "obligation" they do have a duty and responsibility to its customers. And even if they cannot ensure full compatibility, locking up of the camera should never happen. That is poor programming,

Be sure to file a report to Pentax as I do get the feeling that want to put a lot of effort into the K-1 including updates with future firmwares.
04-27-2016, 11:53 PM   #29
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Well, thanks for all the tips and hints. I clearly wasn't aware of Sigma's somewhat checkered compatibility history, maybe due to pure luck on my side.

Thanks to "disasterfilm", that's an avenue I'll check. No, the lens was never serviced, and yes, LV focusing on the K-5 was lousy at best (and here enters my ignorance, I plainly didn't use LV that much until now, until I've had a K-1 in hands somewhen a month ago, where I noticed that LV could work pretty well). So that's not a mediocre LV AF, but a [expletive omitted] lens compatibility issue.
I'm already curious on Sigma's reaction to that.


Small compatibility update from the "antiques section":

Sigma 55-200/4-5.6 DC (screwdrive, rotating front element) - works

I've got that lens for my first Pentax DSLR (a *ist DS), though it seems to be a design for the APS-C market, it shows no obvious vignetting on FF.

Vivitar 19-35/3.5-4.5 Series 1 (screwdrive) - works, if rather loud when hitting end stops on focusing
Tamron 28-300/3.5-6.3 XR LD A06 (screwdrive) - works

To still discussions: Yes, I'm more than aware that these lenses are not "on par" with a high-class camera as the K-1. Definitively not.
04-28-2016, 02:34 AM   #30
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I find this thread interesting because i own the same Sigma 70-200mm/2.8 HSM II.
Tomorrow i will get my own K-1 and could test my Sigma...
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