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04-27-2016, 10:58 AM   #1
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K-1 3rd-party lens compatibility

As the eagle landed this afternoon, I've had already some moments to check my K-1 and various lenses.

And I've found a severe problem. The Sigma 70-200/2.8 II Macro HSM (which works fine on both K10D and K-5) lets the K-1 freeze. Without removing the lens, the camera even ignores the power switch.

Other, and even much older Sigma lenses do work:

24-70/3.5-5.6 HF (plastic mount, screw drive AF and a f-stop ring)
70-300/4-5.6 DG (metal mount, AF via in-lens motor)

and the (newer) 8-16/4.5-5.6 DC HSM. Severe vignetting, but hey, what's to be expected?

That's the first time ever I've had a Pentax camera freezing due to a lens. I consider this a bug in the K-1's 1.00 firmware.

04-27-2016, 11:02 AM   #2
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Wasn't that the lens that caused problems with the HD 1.4x RC? Or something. I remember reading about problems with it, maybe it would not auto-focus?
04-27-2016, 11:05 AM   #3
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Don't know; the only Pentax converter I own is the old and famous 1.7af.

That one actually works with the 70-200, though that's not really a good idea.

---------- Post added 04-27-16 at 08:09 PM ----------

Oh, by the way: the 70-300 I've mentioned above as compatible has OIS. Yep, even that works with the K-1, though it takes a while to turn itself on. Thus the viewfinder gets a stabilized image; you'd have to think to turn of IBIS ... else both IS will try to stabilize concurrently, with presumably less-than-favourable results.
04-27-2016, 11:43 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by funktionsfrei Quote
As the eagle landed this afternoon, I've had already some moments to check my K-1 and various lenses.

And I've found a severe problem. The Sigma 70-200/2.8 II Macro HSM (which works fine on both K10D and K-5) lets the K-1 freeze. Without removing the lens, the camera even ignores the power switch.

Other, and even much older Sigma lenses do work:

24-70/3.5-5.6 HF (plastic mount, screw drive AF and a f-stop ring)
70-300/4-5.6 DG (metal mount, AF via in-lens motor)

and the (newer) 8-16/4.5-5.6 DC HSM. Severe vignetting, but hey, what's to be expected?

That's the first time ever I've had a Pentax camera freezing due to a lens. I consider this a bug in the K-1's 1.00 firmware.
Congrats on the K1. Would love to see some shots / raw files

04-27-2016, 12:21 PM   #5
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AS a cost-cutting measure, Sigma reverse engineers mount and AF specs rather than licensing them, so similar problems have cropped up on Canon and Sony bodies from time to time. I'd definitely lay the blame at Sigma's feet rather than Ricoh.

In the past, Sigma has usually offered a re-chip service for affected lenses, but they might not for such a small market as Pentax shooters. Either way, I'd report this to them immediately, since the more users that have problems, the more likely they are to implement a fix.
04-27-2016, 12:48 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteQuote:
I'd definitely lay the blame at Sigma's feet rather than Ricoh.
With a lens that works perfectly fine with at least the K10D and the K-5 (and most presumably also the K-3)?

Sorry, I don't accept that. And even if the lens would be sending faulty data to the camera, the camera should not freeze. This is poor and faulty software design; Pentax is definitively quite aware that there are "3rd party" lenses around and that there are perfectly acceptable reasons for Pentax users to use these lenses, other than Pentax' somewhat high-classy pricing.

In the fast 70-200mm range, Pentax just now came with a new lens; prior to that, they had nothing comparable. And ... let's be realistic, Pentax' pricing is somewhat off the ground here, the 70-200/2.8 costs more than double than what the Sigma lens did cost. Pentax' offering is even more expensive than Nikon's new 200-500/5.6!

In the super-wide-angle range, Pentax has nothing to offer. I'm using Sigma's 8-16/3.5-5.6 on a K-5 with excellent results, and had Sigma not withdrawn their 12-24, I'd have planned to obtain one for use with the K-1. No, Pentax' 12-24 is an APS-C-only lens, not comparable.

So, as I've said, there are viable reasons for Pentax users to use "3rd party" lenses.


And the stated claim is "compatibility with every K-mount lens ever made" not "compatibility with pentax-made K-mount lenses only".

The Canon incompability you've mentioned stems from something different. Canon steers both AF and aperture electronically on every lens. With the switch from film cameras to digital cameras (both branded "EOS"), they've slightly changed their interpretation of the protocol used to steer the aperture, thus rendering older 3rd-party lenses incompatible.

Were there a similar problem with older "3rd-party" lenses for Pentax, neither the 24-70 nor the 70-300 I've mentioned should work.
The latter even offers OIS, working, on the K-1! OK, none of them is a SDM lens. But the 8-16 is a SDM lens, and that one works on the K-1.
04-27-2016, 12:55 PM - 1 Like   #7
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Actually the point is correct. This is likely a problem with the version of code used by sigma - but it shouldn't lock up the k-1. The lock up points to an unhandled exception. The incompatibility is a Sigma problem that exposed a hole in the k-1 bios I suspect.

Also to be fair Ricoh has been clear that 3rd party lenses may or may not fully function.
04-27-2016, 12:55 PM   #8
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Weird. I had an older screw drive sigma 70-210 lens freeze my k3 from time to time, I thought it was due to something odd in the pins. I'd turn it off and back on and generally the issue would go away. Good luck with the Sigma, and I'm sure things will be resolved earlier than later....

PS: *PLEASE* post some photos from a lens that works!

04-27-2016, 12:56 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by funktionsfrei Quote
The Sigma 70-200/2.8 II Macro HSM (which works fine on both K10D and K-5) lets the K-1 freeze. Without removing the lens, the camera even ignores the power switch.
I have exactly the same problem with that lens on K-5 body (including power switch freeze) when battery level is low.
Is it possible to reproduce that problem on K-1 with fully charged battery?
04-27-2016, 01:00 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by funktionsfrei Quote
With a lens that works perfectly fine with at least the K10D and the K-5 (and most presumably also the K-3)?
Actually if you do a search you will find a number of posts complaining about this lens not working properly with the k-5 and with the k-3.

So, no I am not going to believe that this is a Ricoh problem or that Ricoh has done something intentional to keep third party lenses from working.

I will believe that this particular Sigma lens has shown problems in the past both with Pentax and with Canon. So sounds like a Sigma issue to me. Best to contact Sigma and ask them for a firmware update.
04-27-2016, 01:06 PM   #11
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Serious sad sauce that the first user to get the K1 starts up a pentax tirade. :/

Also, you're comparing apples to oranges with 12mm APS-C field of view to 35mm equivalents. If you want really wide, the 15-30 lens is equivalent to an APS-C 10 to 20. That is pretty wide and actually made for the format.
04-27-2016, 01:16 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by funktionsfrei Quote
Sorry, I don't accept that.
You might want to consider doing so. Might your 70-200/2.8 be the model that returns the same lens id (8 255) as five other Sigma lenses, all with strikingly different specifications?

QuoteOriginally posted by funktionsfrei Quote
And even if the lens would be sending faulty data to the camera, the camera should not freeze.
You are correct. The camera should display a nasty message and then turn itself off until the offending lens is removed or perhaps some other form of graceful degradation*. I suggest you return your K-1 post haste and buy the competitor's FF K-mount dSLR, (I am fairly sympathetic to this user's complaint, but feel that a call to customer support or the dealer before posting a rant here might have been more appropriate.)


Steve

* Graceful degradation is the term used in software development for the idealized behavior when an unanticipated event occurs, throwning a process/component into an indeterminant state. Unfortunately, graceful degradation is not possible on fatal error. Your older Sigma is apparently a poison pill.

Last edited by stevebrot; 04-27-2016 at 01:24 PM.
04-27-2016, 01:18 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
Is it possible to reproduce that problem on K-1 with fully charged battery?
Excellent question! I don't know how many strange behavior questions I have responded to on this site that were caused by the user not fully charging the battery before using their new camera.


Steve
04-27-2016, 01:28 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by funktionsfrei Quote
And the stated claim is "compatibility with every K-mount lens ever made" not "compatibility with pentax-made K-mount lenses only".
Perhaps the Sigma lens is in need of a firmware update at a service center. Certain older Sigma lenses have shown compatibility issues on Pentax prior to being updated.

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04-27-2016, 01:29 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Excellent question! I don't know how many strange behavior questions I have responded to on this site that were caused by the user not fully charging the battery before using their new camera.

Steve
I think we've all been there at one point or another. Those batteries just won't charge fast enough the first time around. :P
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