Post K-1 bugs/issues (feedback for Ricoh)

**Tas** · 05-31-2016, 12:09 AM

Today I had my phone with me to capture some images of the issue I am having with my K-1.

I was outside in bright daylight when it occured so unfortunately the reflection off the screen has made it hard to show what I am seeing.

The two images following show my K-1 in LV and what appears to be a bracket. The bracket being black means the bracket is hard to define as the screen is reflecting an image of my phone. However you can see the LV working as the scene can be identified around the bracket at the top of the screen and through some slots on each side of the bracket.

So as you look at these photos what do you think I'm looking at (when you also consider the previous thread entries I've posted on this issue)?

I will be returning this camera, but for now it would be interesting to see what you guys think and whether anyone else has had this issue.

Tas

Attached Images

**G_Money** · 05-31-2016, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

I was experimenting with my K1 and 360II strobe using live view in my "studio" (=the basement). The LV screen remains bright in P, Sv, Tv, Av, TAv, X and B settings on the E-Dial. Only when set to "M" does the screen go light/dark when the aperture, shutter speed or ISO is changed.

Somewhat related item I noticed some time ago, and apologies if this has been answered. When the white balance is pressed on the 4-way controller. the options that come up include "Auto White Balance (AWB)" and "Multi Auto White Balance." How is this Multi AWB different? What does it do? I can find nothing in the manual that describes the what, when, and why, of multi AWB versus ordinary AWB.

Also, there is no setting for FLASH as on previous Pentax digitals. Is flash white balance now automatic? Does it function for both PTTL and manual strobes triggered via the PC socket? Is it set before the flash fires or applied post-exposure when the image is saved? Does it work the same way for both JPEGS and RAW?

From p.63 in the manual. "When (multi-auto white balance) is set,even if various light sources are present at the shooting location, the camera automatically adjusts the white balance according to the light source of each area." Basically it will use different WB settings in different areas of the same image. For example an interior lit by tungsten lighting where a window has an outdoor view, in theory both these areas should have their appropriate white balances set. The K-3 had this feature as well.

rawr · 05-31-2016, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by Tas

So as you look at these photos what do you think I'm looking at

Honestly, the image is so badly shot, I can barely make head or tail of what you are talking about.

**WPRESTO** · 05-31-2016, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by G_Money

From p.63 in the manual. "When (multi-auto white balance) is set,even if various light sources are present at the shooting location, the camera automatically adjusts the white balance according to the light source of each area." Basically it will use different WB settings in different areas of the same image. For example an interior lit by tungsten lighting where a window has an outdoor view, in theory both these areas should have their appropriate white balances set. The K-3 had this feature as well.

How about white balance for flash/strobe. Is it now the same as daylight? Does AWB "know" there's a flash in use and consequently will not adjust for ambient fluorescent or tungsten? More critical: are all white balance adjustments made after the shutter fires = as the file is being saved?

Unregistered User · 05-31-2016, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

How about white balance for flash/strobe. Is it now the same as daylight? Does AWB "know" there's a flash in use and consequently will not adjust for ambient fluorescent or tungsten? More critical: are all white balance adjustments made after the shutter fires = as the file is being saved?

There are a few settings regarding how WB acts with flash in the C-menu

**WPRESTO** · 05-31-2016, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

There are a few settings regarding how WB acts with flash in the C-menu

Thank you, I'll be sure to look an "C" that.

discharged · 05-31-2016, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by jatrax

...
Is this the same flash you are using for both issues or did you have a manual flash on the first question?

No, It was not the same flash, and to test I did now mount my fgz and switched it to manual, it stopped at 200 and would go down to 1/160 directly. Tried again with a godox TT520 no limit at all it just jumped past 1/200 as if there was no communication from the flash at all saying it was a problem (sarcasm). It does in fact seem to be my flash, a yongnuo ring flash made for a canon but set to manual mode. Apparently there is some communication, and it creates some bug in the Pentax firmware.

**Tas** · 05-31-2016, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Honestly, the image is so badly shot, I can barely make head or tail of what you are talking about.

I agree, but when it happens I get about 15 seconds then the codition disappears.

As this only occurs occasionally I will try and replicate it where I can better control the light not when I'm out taking photos. If not then I will leave it as is.

Thanks for the feedback anyway.

Tas

Ariis · 05-31-2016, 02:20 PM

I'm experiencing some inconsistent focusing with my Tamron 70-200 F/2.8 ("A001"), so I tried the fine tuning mechanism in C4-25, "per lens" mode, but I can set it to any value, it doesn't change anything !? I've made a the test with camera on tripod, clear and isolated thin subject, center spot AF, AF-S mode, and F/3.5 to have a shallow dof @ 200mm. I put the AF "far away" between each shot. I can understand that this is an extreme condition (?), but the point is that the AF adjustment is inoperant here.

With my Pentax DFA 100mm F/2.8 WR, it has an effect, but with a -10/+10mm range. Is this the range we should expect ?

---------- Post added 31-05-16 at 22:42 ----------

I also experienced something weird today, still with my Tamron 70-200 F/2.8 : in LV mode, I tried to auto-focus on a pine tree trunk that was 25m away, but the K-1 kept focusing alternatively on a closer thinner subject (~18m) and a farer subject (~35m) at each press. I was in AF-S mode, AF spot set to the center of the image, and the trunk was wider than the white square of the AF location, so it really shouldn't have missed it ! There was enough light (beginning of the evening). I pressed 6 times on the AF buttons and it kept focusing on those 2 subjects alternatively, outside of white square. I don't remember the aperture, it was F2.8 or 3.5 I think. Perhaps that F2.8 @ 200mm is too soft for proper LV focusing ? But in this case, it should focus on something and show a red square when locking, not a green one.

The local contrast of the pin tree was not that high, but still quite distinguishable (gray with spots on it). Can the K-1 ignore the selected spot location if it find something more contrasty just around it ??? If so (but it shouldn't), there should be a visual feed-back.

biz-engineer · 06-01-2016, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Ariis

I put the AF "far away" between each shot. I can understand that this is an extreme condition (?), but the point is that the AF adjustment is inoperant here. With my Pentax DFA 100mm F/2.8 WR, it has an effect, but with a -10/+10mm range. Is this the range we should expect ?

I do have good AF results with the K1 and Tamron 70-200. Also, I tried to correct for some front focusing on the DFA150-450 and it seemed to have nearly effect. The AF fine tuning on the K3 wasn't very effective, but my first impression is that it's worse on the K1. It seems that the amount that can be tune is really small.

Ariis · 06-01-2016, 01:25 PM

Yes, and I suspect that the correction amount depend on the focal, i.e. the longer the focal, the smaller the correction for a given value. For my DFA 100 F/2.8, I have to correct to -6. For my new Tamron 28-75 F/2.8 (just got it today), I have to correct it to -10, and it's still not sufficient ! I think that it would really be interesting to be able to cumulate the global correction (to compensate imprecise AF sensor mounting) + per lens correction. Otherwise I need twice the actual correction range. But this doesn't answer to the non operant fine tuning for the Tamron 70-200, which I can barely use on the longer end if I want good AF. Perhaps something is wrong with the correction/focal length relationship.

---------- Post added 01-06-16 at 22:06 ----------

As explained here for the K-3, the K-1 behaves the same. To sum it up, the image is way darker when playing the movies on screen that on camera. Just look at the dark areas. You can even see the difference when using a monitor connected the the camera through the HDMI port.

I don't understand why nobody else noted that, but it clearly seems to be a bug in the codec or tags ? Just make the test that I explained there. I don't know if it's related to the REC 709 support by MOV files ? This make video recording with K-1 totally unusable.

rawr · 06-01-2016, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Ariis

For my new Tamron 28-75 F/2.8 (just got it today), I have to correct it to -10,

My Tamron 28-75 requires identical correction on K-1. But it also requires similar correction on the K-3, but not so much on the K-5, and on the K-x it is perfect. It's a strange lens. Under most circumstances the correction comes close enough to give good results, especially if you shoot f3.5+.

I agree that it would be nice if the range of K-1 in-camera AF correction could be expanded. +/-10 just isn't enough sometimes.

**clackers** · 06-01-2016, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Ariis

The local contrast of the pin tree was not that high, but still quite distinguishable (gray with spots on it). Can the K-1 ignore the selected spot location if it find something more contrasty just around it ???

All PDAF sensors focus on a vertical or horizontal line, Ariis, not an area, however much we'd like that.

That's why you do focus tests with black geonetric patterns on a white background.

My Tammy 70-200 is fine with the K-1, BTW.

**LaurenOE** · 06-01-2016, 10:25 PM

After my last "cry-wolf" bug...I'm embarrassed to ask if this is a bug.
When upside down (in video mode or live view), the K1 does great with turning the video around, but not the settings on the screen.

Youtu.be

Is this a bug?

biz-engineer · 06-01-2016, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by Ariis

Yes, and I suspect that the correction amount depend on the focal, i.e. the longer the focal, the smaller the correction for a given value. For my DFA 100 F/2.8, I have to correct to -6. For my new Tamron 28-75 F/2.8 (just got it today), I have to correct it to -10, and it's still not sufficient ! I think that it would really be interesting to be able to cumulate the global correction (to compensate imprecise AF sensor mounting) + per lens correction. Otherwise I need twice the actual correction range. But this doesn't answer to the non operant fine tuning for the Tamron 70-200, which I can barely use on the longer end if I want good AF. Perhaps something is wrong with the correction/focal length relationship. ---------- Post added 01-06-16 at 22:06 ---------- As explained here for the K-3, the K-1 behaves the same. To sum it up, the image is way darker when playing the movies on screen that on camera. Just look at the dark areas. You can even see the difference when using a monitor connected the the camera through the HDMI port. I don't understand why nobody else noted that, but it clearly seems to be a bug in the codec or tags ? Just make the test that I explained there. I don't know if it's related to the REC 709 support by MOV files ? This make video recording with K-1 totally unusable.

Normally, the LCD brightness can be changed and the perception of its brightness is relative to ambient light. Therefore, with any camera brand, you never ever adjust exposure according to how it looks on the rear display but you must adjust exposure in order to have a centered histogram (Canon DSLR users do the same, they look at the histogram). Now if you really want do adjust your video exposure from camera LCD brightness, you can still tune the LCD brightness down in order to get satisfaction (yes you can tune rear LCD brightness to your taste). When using a camera, two things to consider: 1) bugs = the camera does not behave according to specifications 2) not using the camera in the correct way.

05-31-2016, 12:09 AM	#136
Tas Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brisbane, QLD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,202	Finally have some photos of my problem Today I had my phone with me to capture some images of the issue I am having with my K-1. I was outside in bright daylight when it occured so unfortunately the reflection off the screen has made it hard to show what I am seeing. The two images following show my K-1 in LV and what appears to be a bracket. The bracket being black means the bracket is hard to define as the screen is reflecting an image of my phone. However you can see the LV working as the scene can be identified around the bracket at the top of the screen and through some slots on each side of the bracket. So as you look at these photos what do you think I'm looking at (when you also consider the previous thread entries I've posted on this issue)? I will be returning this camera, but for now it would be interesting to see what you guys think and whether anyone else has had this issue. Tas Attached Images

05-31-2016, 02:20 PM	#144
Ariis Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Lorraine, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 631	AF fine tuning not completly working I'm experiencing some inconsistent focusing with my Tamron 70-200 F/2.8 ("A001"), so I tried the fine tuning mechanism in C4-25, "per lens" mode, but I can set it to any value, it doesn't change anything !? I've made a the test with camera on tripod, clear and isolated thin subject, center spot AF, AF-S mode, and F/3.5 to have a shallow dof @ 200mm. I put the AF "far away" between each shot. I can understand that this is an extreme condition (?), but the point is that the AF adjustment is inoperant here. With my Pentax DFA 100mm F/2.8 WR, it has an effect, but with a -10/+10mm range. Is this the range we should expect ? ---------- Post added 31-05-16 at 22:42 ---------- I also experienced something weird today, still with my Tamron 70-200 F/2.8 : in LV mode, I tried to auto-focus on a pine tree trunk that was 25m away, but the K-1 kept focusing alternatively on a closer thinner subject (~18m) and a farer subject (~35m) at each press. I was in AF-S mode, AF spot set to the center of the image, and the trunk was wider than the white square of the AF location, so it really shouldn't have missed it ! There was enough light (beginning of the evening). I pressed 6 times on the AF buttons and it kept focusing on those 2 subjects alternatively, outside of white square. I don't remember the aperture, it was F2.8 or 3.5 I think. Perhaps that F2.8 @ 200mm is too soft for proper LV focusing ? But in this case, it should focus on something and show a red square when locking, not a green one. The local contrast of the pin tree was not that high, but still quite distinguishable (gray with spots on it). Can the K-1 ignore the selected spot location if it find something more contrasty just around it ??? If so (but it shouldn't), there should be a visual feed-back.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Ricoh Image Sync v1.1.0 app supports K-1	rawr	Pentax K-1 & K-1 II	7	02-08-2018 08:24 AM
WIN A K-1!!! Ricoh North America	bertwert	Pentax K-1 & K-1 II	38	04-18-2016 07:03 PM
Computer specs for K-1 Post Processing	loveisageless	Pentax K-1 & K-1 II	14	03-20-2016 11:39 AM
Ricoh GXR + A16 users' feedback	SOldBear	Ricoh GR	7	03-06-2013 05:14 PM

05-31-2016, 05:33 AM	#137
G_Money Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 598	Originally posted by WPRESTO I was experimenting with my K1 and 360II strobe using live view in my "studio" (=the basement). The LV screen remains bright in P, Sv, Tv, Av, TAv, X and B settings on the E-Dial. Only when set to "M" does the screen go light/dark when the aperture, shutter speed or ISO is changed. Somewhat related item I noticed some time ago, and apologies if this has been answered. When the white balance is pressed on the 4-way controller. the options that come up include "Auto White Balance (AWB)" and "Multi Auto White Balance." How is this Multi AWB different? What does it do? I can find nothing in the manual that describes the what, when, and why, of multi AWB versus ordinary AWB. Also, there is no setting for FLASH as on previous Pentax digitals. Is flash white balance now automatic? Does it function for both PTTL and manual strobes triggered via the PC socket? Is it set before the flash fires or applied post-exposure when the image is saved? Does it work the same way for both JPEGS and RAW? From p.63 in the manual. "When (multi-auto white balance) is set,even if various light sources are present at the shooting location, the camera automatically adjusts the white balance according to the light source of each area." Basically it will use different WB settings in different areas of the same image. For example an interior lit by tungsten lighting where a window has an outdoor view, in theory both these areas should have their appropriate white balances set. The K-3 had this feature as well.

05-31-2016, 05:50 AM	#138
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Tas So as you look at these photos what do you think I'm looking at Honestly, the image is so badly shot, I can barely make head or tail of what you are talking about.

05-31-2016, 08:43 AM	#139
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,104	Originally posted by G_Money From p.63 in the manual. "When (multi-auto white balance) is set,even if various light sources are present at the shooting location, the camera automatically adjusts the white balance according to the light source of each area." Basically it will use different WB settings in different areas of the same image. For example an interior lit by tungsten lighting where a window has an outdoor view, in theory both these areas should have their appropriate white balances set. The K-3 had this feature as well. How about white balance for flash/strobe. Is it now the same as daylight? Does AWB "know" there's a flash in use and consequently will not adjust for ambient fluorescent or tungsten? More critical: are all white balance adjustments made after the shutter fires = as the file is being saved?

05-31-2016, 10:58 AM	#140
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by WPRESTO How about white balance for flash/strobe. Is it now the same as daylight? Does AWB "know" there's a flash in use and consequently will not adjust for ambient fluorescent or tungsten? More critical: are all white balance adjustments made after the shutter fires = as the file is being saved? There are a few settings regarding how WB acts with flash in the C-menu

05-31-2016, 11:36 AM	#141
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,104	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 There are a few settings regarding how WB acts with flash in the C-menu Thank you, I'll be sure to look an "C" that.

05-31-2016, 01:46 PM	#142
discharged Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: viking country Photos: Albums Posts: 276	Originally posted by jatrax ... Is this the same flash you are using for both issues or did you have a manual flash on the first question? No, It was not the same flash, and to test I did now mount my fgz and switched it to manual, it stopped at 200 and would go down to 1/160 directly. Tried again with a godox TT520 no limit at all it just jumped past 1/200 as if there was no communication from the flash at all saying it was a problem (sarcasm). It does in fact seem to be my flash, a yongnuo ring flash made for a canon but set to manual mode. Apparently there is some communication, and it creates some bug in the Pentax firmware.

05-31-2016, 02:07 PM	#143
Tas Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brisbane, QLD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,202	Originally posted by rawr Honestly, the image is so badly shot, I can barely make head or tail of what you are talking about. I agree, but when it happens I get about 15 seconds then the codition disappears. As this only occurs occasionally I will try and replicate it where I can better control the light not when I'm out taking photos. If not then I will leave it as is. Thanks for the feedback anyway. Tas

06-01-2016, 12:43 PM	#145
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by Ariis I put the AF "far away" between each shot. I can understand that this is an extreme condition (?), but the point is that the AF adjustment is inoperant here. With my Pentax DFA 100mm F/2.8 WR, it has an effect, but with a -10/+10mm range. Is this the range we should expect ? I do have good AF results with the K1 and Tamron 70-200. Also, I tried to correct for some front focusing on the DFA150-450 and it seemed to have nearly effect. The AF fine tuning on the K3 wasn't very effective, but my first impression is that it's worse on the K1. It seems that the amount that can be tune is really small.

06-01-2016, 01:25 PM	#146
Ariis Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Lorraine, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 631	Yes, and I suspect that the correction amount depend on the focal, i.e. the longer the focal, the smaller the correction for a given value. For my DFA 100 F/2.8, I have to correct to -6. For my new Tamron 28-75 F/2.8 (just got it today), I have to correct it to -10, and it's still not sufficient ! I think that it would really be interesting to be able to cumulate the global correction (to compensate imprecise AF sensor mounting) + per lens correction. Otherwise I need twice the actual correction range. But this doesn't answer to the non operant fine tuning for the Tamron 70-200, which I can barely use on the longer end if I want good AF. Perhaps something is wrong with the correction/focal length relationship. ---------- Post added 01-06-16 at 22:06 ---------- As explained here for the K-3, the K-1 behaves the same. To sum it up, the image is way darker when playing the movies on screen that on camera. Just look at the dark areas. You can even see the difference when using a monitor connected the the camera through the HDMI port. I don't understand why nobody else noted that, but it clearly seems to be a bug in the codec or tags ? Just make the test that I explained there. I don't know if it's related to the REC 709 support by MOV files ? This make video recording with K-1 totally unusable.

06-01-2016, 04:22 PM	#147
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Ariis For my new Tamron 28-75 F/2.8 (just got it today), I have to correct it to -10, My Tamron 28-75 requires identical correction on K-1. But it also requires similar correction on the K-3, but not so much on the K-5, and on the K-x it is perfect. It's a strange lens. Under most circumstances the correction comes close enough to give good results, especially if you shoot f3.5+. I agree that it would be nice if the range of K-1 in-camera AF correction could be expanded. +/-10 just isn't enough sometimes.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-01-2016, 04:42 PM	#148
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Ariis The local contrast of the pin tree was not that high, but still quite distinguishable (gray with spots on it). Can the K-1 ignore the selected spot location if it find something more contrasty just around it ??? All PDAF sensors focus on a vertical or horizontal line, Ariis, not an area, however much we'd like that. That's why you do focus tests with black geonetric patterns on a white background. My Tammy 70-200 is fine with the K-1, BTW.

06-01-2016, 11:12 PM	#150
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,231	Originally posted by Ariis Yes, and I suspect that the correction amount depend on the focal, i.e. the longer the focal, the smaller the correction for a given value. For my DFA 100 F/2.8, I have to correct to -6. For my new Tamron 28-75 F/2.8 (just got it today), I have to correct it to -10, and it's still not sufficient ! I think that it would really be interesting to be able to cumulate the global correction (to compensate imprecise AF sensor mounting) + per lens correction. Otherwise I need twice the actual correction range. But this doesn't answer to the non operant fine tuning for the Tamron 70-200, which I can barely use on the longer end if I want good AF. Perhaps something is wrong with the correction/focal length relationship. ---------- Post added 01-06-16 at 22:06 ---------- As explained here for the K-3, the K-1 behaves the same. To sum it up, the image is way darker when playing the movies on screen that on camera. Just look at the dark areas. You can even see the difference when using a monitor connected the the camera through the HDMI port. I don't understand why nobody else noted that, but it clearly seems to be a bug in the codec or tags ? Just make the test that I explained there. I don't know if it's related to the REC 709 support by MOV files ? This make video recording with K-1 totally unusable. Normally, the LCD brightness can be changed and the perception of its brightness is relative to ambient light. Therefore, with any camera brand, you never ever adjust exposure according to how it looks on the rear display but you must adjust exposure in order to have a centered histogram (Canon DSLR users do the same, they look at the histogram). Now if you really want do adjust your video exposure from camera LCD brightness, you can still tune the LCD brightness down in order to get satisfaction (yes you can tune rear LCD brightness to your taste). When using a camera, two things to consider: 1) bugs = the camera does not behave according to specifications 2) not using the camera in the correct way.