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05-05-2016, 06:08 AM   #16
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Good demonstration, BE. For many photos - probably most - APS-C is cheaper and does the job.



05-05-2016, 06:19 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Good demonstration, BE. For many photos - probably most - APS-C is cheaper and does the job.
Rendering with out of focus background and subject separate is really what makes the different look on FF photos. For photos where everything should be in focus, at reasonably low ISO (<800), I can't see any difference. I got the K-1 for $1000 in exchange of getting rid of some wrong buys from the past (things that I never use). And the Tamron SP 28-75 and Tamron SP 70-200 work really well on the K1, so I get a full frame for a limited spending. Otherwise, for someone who'd need to buy the new DFA15-30, DFA24-70 and DFA70-200, it's a very expensive upgrade compared to the existing Pentax APSC lineup that is actually very good value for its price.
05-05-2016, 06:20 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
Your cards are too small. I have a pair of 64gb ones in the K3 and a pair of 128gb ones that will be in the K1 when UPS drops it off tomorrow.
Depends how many shots you take between offloads, really. I have a 64gb in my K-5 and I've never come close to filling it.
05-05-2016, 06:24 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by bestlym Quote
1. K1 post cropped with 300mm 2. K1 with 450mm 3. K1 cropped mode with 300mm 4. K3 with 300mm well... It's my first posting in this forum.
hey hey, interesting ! ;-)

---------- Post added 05-05-16 at 15:26 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
Okay, I guess I get it: Judging from the waste bin symbol, images #2 and #4 look a little sharper.
My impression is that #4 is one of the sharpest, yes.

---------- Post added 05-05-16 at 15:27 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by K-amps Quote
I am just guessing based on me taking a screenshot and lifting shadows to see noise pattern. 1 and 3 seem more organic and might be K1.
There are slight differences in noise, that's a good point, that may give a hint

---------- Post added 05-05-16 at 15:28 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
My guess is that you have a 32GB SDHC card from Transcend that is made in Taiwan.
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
By the looks of it, I'd guess it that the package was a 2-color job (black and red) instead of a 4-color process (CMYK mixed with dots much like a Bayer array) with a relatively coarse line screen of 150 lines per inch. And It's likely a 32GB Transcend SDHC card made in Taiawan. But that's only a guess.
LoL , gosh, how did you guess , :-) , that's a good start ;-)

---------- Post added 05-05-16 at 15:31 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kvetcha Quote
1 & 3 seem sharpest to me.
humm , yeah , depends on where in the frame . Are they from the K1 or K3 ?

---------- Post added 05-05-16 at 15:36 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
Your cards are too small. I have a pair of 64gb ones in the K3 and a pair of 128gb ones that will be in the K1 when UPS drops it off tomorrow.
Well, I have 2 x 64Gb that I used in the K3, but the second slot was causing some random write errors with the 64Gb cards and the 32G always worked fine, so I use 64G in SD slot #1 and 32G in SD slot #2. In the K1 there are no issues with using both 64G in both slots. With 32G, that's a capacity of something like 700 RAW shots per card in the K3 and 400 RAW shots per card in the K1.

05-05-2016, 07:11 AM   #20
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If you look at the grey background picture 4 is noisier than the other three. Picture four is from the K3. The others are from the K1. Given the low resolution of web jpegs - any differences in resolution are moot.

It takes a 4K monitor to see 6 megapixels at full resolution - let alone 24 mp and 36 mp.
05-05-2016, 08:22 AM   #21
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At best, only two of the above have any hope of being a full-resolution crop (300mm on the K-1, crop-mode and PP crop); the others having been down-sampled to similar pixel dimensions. Alternatively (2nd best), one was down-sampled and two were up-sampled to match the 300mm on the K-3.

At worst, none are full-resolution crops and all were up/down-sampled to fit the pixel dimensions shown above.

My guess is that #2 and #4 are crops from the 300mm on the K-1* with #3 being the 300mm on the K-3 and #1 being the 450mm on the K-1.


Steve

* Which is which makes no difference. A crop in PP should be essentially equivalent to the capture-time crop from the camera.

Last edited by stevebrot; 05-05-2016 at 08:32 AM.
05-05-2016, 08:37 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Below 4 different versions of the same photo, taken with both K3 and K1 equivalent with 300mm (K3, K1 cropped mode, K1 post cropped) or 450mm K1 FF mode, same lens and same manual setting used in all cases (Tripod mounted, f5.6, ISO400).
Now I might be missing something, but why would there be a difference in "K1 cropped mode, K1 post cropped". Shouldn't they be exactly the same, one is the camera cropping it for you and the other you cropping it afterwards?


*edit Stevebrot beat me to it.
05-05-2016, 08:45 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dr_who Quote
Shouldn't they be exactly the same, one is the camera cropping it for you and the other you cropping it afterwards?
Yes, they should be the same, but either I have a bad copy of the camera, or anything else, I don't know. I couldn't match the two, I tried 4 or 5 times and it was the same. Maybe someone else can try to see if the finding is the same or if my setup is wrong.

---------- Post added 05-05-16 at 17:47 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Alternatively (2nd best), one was down-sampled and two were up-sampled to match the 300mm on the K-3.
I did not up-sample. I down-sampled a bit the all cropped images to have all images at the same pixel count before posting them.

05-05-2016, 08:48 AM   #24
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I need a new monitor
05-05-2016, 09:30 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I did not up-sample. I down-sampled a bit the all cropped images to have all images at the same pixel count before posting them.
This sort of comparison is always hard. Ideally, at least one of the images should be a full-resolution (100%) crop. Down-sampling, even to fit the screen, comes with the risk of unpredictable loss of detail. Up-sampling amplifies what is not there and is a little more helpful in differentiating. An upsample of your K-1 crops to the native K-3 might have been telling. Highest validity might be a complex subject for side-by-side comparison of prints made at 300 dpi (or even the full-size images onscreen) to be evaluated for detail capture and tonal reproduction (think the floral still life used for the K-1 pixel shift demonstration...#7 at LINK).


Steve
05-05-2016, 11:35 AM   #26
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#2 and #4 look a bit crisper to me
05-05-2016, 01:54 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spodeworld Quote
#2 and #4 look a bit crisper to me
Yep..

Image #4 is one of the sharpest image, it is from the K3 @ 300mm (has also a bit more noise)
Image #1 is from the K1 crop mode @ 300mm
Image #2 is from the K1 FF mode @450mm (very slick, no noise at all)
Image #3 is was from the K1 FF mode @300mm, cropped in post
05-05-2016, 03:29 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Yep..

Image #4 is one of the sharpest image, it is from the K3 @ 300mm (has also a bit more noise)
Image #1 is from the K1 crop mode @ 300mm
Image #2 is from the K1 FF mode @450mm (very slick, no noise at all)
Image #3 is was from the K1 FF mode @300mm, cropped in post
Image #4 is not sharper - noise simply has the effect of adding some visible sharpening to a picture - the same way that grain did with film pictures. The grain in film pictures was why nobody sharpened pictures until digital came along.
05-05-2016, 03:35 PM   #29
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Order of sharpest to from highest to least

4
3
1
2

So im not sure how that pans out but ill guess the following. 1,3,4 have similar reds.

1. K1 post cropped with 300mm
2. K3 with 300mm
3. K1 cropped mode with 300mm
4. K1 with 450mm
05-05-2016, 03:44 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Yep..

Image #4 is one of the sharpest image, it is from the K3 @ 300mm (has also a bit more noise)
Image #1 is from the K1 crop mode @ 300mm
Image #2 is from the K1 FF mode @450mm (very slick, no noise at all)
Image #3 is was from the K1 FF mode @300mm, cropped in post
I suspected that #4 was the 300mm (DA* 300/4?) on the K-3, but am pleasantly surprised that #2 was taken with the 450mm. Is it safe to assume this was the new D FA 150-450/4.5-5.6? If so, I am in awe.


Steve
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