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05-09-2016, 05:30 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
Why on earth would you shoot at 1 second handheld? Any real world scenarios to make me understand that reasoning?

Shooting in a museum that does not allow flash at all or tripods during visiting hours. I have posted a shot on this forum from a museum in Bismarck, North Dakota that I did with my K5-IIs using a Sigma 17-70 lens. Exposure time was 1/3 second and still came out great. Being an old fart I am not as steady as I used to be and IBIS has been a real help for me. It looks like the K1 image stabilization is a whole level better.

I wish that people would stop coming up with whole new reasons for me to buy the K1.

05-09-2016, 06:08 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
Shooting in a museum that does not allow flash at all or tripods during visiting hours. I have posted a shot on this forum from a museum in Bismarck, North Dakota that I did with my K5-IIs using a Sigma 17-70 lens. Exposure time was 1/3 second and still came out great. Being an old fart I am not as steady as I used to be and IBIS has been a real help for me. It looks like the K1 image stabilization is a whole level better.

I wish that people would stop coming up with whole new reasons for me to buy the K1.
With the K-1 you could have put it on a higher ISO without penalty
05-09-2016, 07:37 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
No. Pixel shift needs a stationary camera to be of any use. And preferably a stationary subject.

To clear it up a little more: Shake Reduction does not work when using Pixel Shift.
I don't understand the reasoning here. Shake reduction system is supposed to keep the sensor perfectly still relative to the scene when the camera is shaking/moving relatively short distance. So PS should be able to take the four pictures of the perfectly aligned scene on the sensor. Do I miss something ?
05-09-2016, 07:51 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by FtYoU Quote
I don't understand the reasoning here. Shake reduction system is supposed to keep the sensor perfectly still relative to the scene when the camera is shaking/moving relatively short distance. So PS should be able to take the four pictures of the perfectly aligned scene on the sensor. Do I miss something ?
Since the sensor SR mechanism is the same as for the Pixel Shift. It uses the system for either SR or PS. Not at the same time. SR is turned OFF when PS is turned ON. This also includes the anti moiré function that is turned OFF when PS is ON.

05-09-2016, 07:52 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by FtYoU Quote
I don't understand the reasoning here. Shake reduction system is supposed to keep the sensor perfectly still relative to the scene when the camera is shaking/moving relatively short distance. So PS should be able to take the four pictures of the perfectly aligned scene on the sensor. Do I miss something ?
Maybe that the PS takes about one second to take all four shoots, and the shake reduction isn't that good that it can take a one second exposure with pixel perfection. Not consistently anyway.
05-09-2016, 07:55 AM   #36
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I think that the precision needed for PS and SR at the same time is something for future versions with much higher computing power.
05-09-2016, 08:19 AM   #37
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The better SR is one of my most anticipated improvements in the K1. I have loved SR since the old K10D when I first found it to be amazing.

I shot this late the other evening with my damaged K5IIs...only have MF, no EV control and must shoot wide open since I have no aperture control.

1/80 handheld ISO 6400 @ 500mm f 6.3 shot through my office windows. I was standing with the heavy Bigma when I shot it. (EXIF says 100mm since that is what I had dialed in for MF...my bad!)



Now for my question.....( My K1 is supposed to arrive today!)....If I was shooting this again in the same circumstances, what settings might have been used more effectively with the K1 to produce a better shot?

Next question...If shot at ISO 6400 with the K1 would the noise be noticeably less?

I'm thinking these two factors may give me a much broader range to work with on the K1?

Regards & Thanks!
05-09-2016, 10:01 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
Since the sensor SR mechanism is the same as for the Pixel Shift. It uses the system for either SR or PS. Not at the same time. SR is turned OFF when PS is turned ON. This also includes the anti moiré function that is turned OFF when PS is ON.
Using Sensor shift for each features, makes sense. Thanks

05-09-2016, 12:52 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
...
I wish that people would stop coming up with whole new reasons for me to buy the K1.
It is big
It is heavy
it is expensive
it has no built in flash
it has a number of bugs
the button layout is changed
it is just wonderful, I already love it... Ehhhmm Sorry...


QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Now for my question.....( My K1 is supposed to arrive today!)....If I was shooting this again in the same circumstances, what settings might have been used more effectively with the K1 to produce a better shot?


Next question...If shot at ISO 6400 with the K1 would the noise be noticeably less?

I'm thinking these two factors may give me a much broader range to work with on the K1?

Regards & Thanks!
Well, first of all autofocus, metering and ability to set the aperture might help you a bit But to be more serious, that particular image is already good.. So not much help getting another camera there. But it is the misses, blurred shots and focus misses, under exposed images etc. the K-1 can help a bit there, it compensates for a few more of your misses and flaws and makes it eastier to get usable shots thanks to better shake reduction, better ISO handling, better Autofocus and higher dynamic range. If the images are any good or not, that is up to your artistic talent, eye for details or blind luck.

QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
Why on earth would you shoot at 1 second handheld? Any real world scenarios to make me understand that reasoning?
There are a lot of possible uses, you just have to broaden your mind... I can guarantee that you have some image or situation you would have loved to be able to shoot, but you tried and gave up because it was impossible hand held... with this camera atleast some of those situations can be handled better than with my previous camera. But I can give you a few real world uses that I can think about

1. landscape dusk, dawn, fog, sunset, sunrise where you have low light and want small aperture opening.
2. indoor no flash scenarios, either not allowed or not wanted.
3. being able to capture usable shots where slow objects get motion blur hand held, I think of for instance water. six stops would mean 3 seconds with a 18mm lens...
05-09-2016, 01:00 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by discharged Quote
It is big
It is heavy
it is expensive
it has no built in flash
it has a number of bugs
the button layout is changed
it is just wonderful, I already love it... Ehhhmm Sorry...




Well, first of all autofocus, metering and ability to set the aperture might help you a bit But to be more serious, that particular image is already good.. So not much help getting another camera there. But it is the misses, blurred shots and focus misses, under exposed images etc. the K-1 can help a bit there, it compensates for a few more of your misses and flaws and makes it eastier to get usable shots thanks to better shake reduction, better ISO handling, better Autofocus and higher dynamic range. If the images are any good or not, that is up to your artistic talent, eye for details or blind luck.



There are a lot of possible uses, you just have to broaden your mind... I can guarantee that you have some image or situation you would have loved to be able to shoot, but you tried and gave up because it was impossible hand held... with this camera atleast some of those situations can be handled better than with my previous camera. But I can give you a few real world uses that I can think about

1. landscape dusk, dawn, fog, sunset, sunrise where you have low light and want small aperture opening.
2. indoor no flash scenarios, either not allowed or not wanted.
3. being able to capture usable shots where slow objects get motion blur hand held, I think of for instance water. six stops would mean 3 seconds with a 18mm lens...
You mention bugs in the K-1. I have not found any, what are they?

When it comes to slow shutter speeds handheld I get it, with older cameras high ISO was a bitch but the K-1 really can crank it up so that you don't need the 1 second exposure, but yes, I do, really, understand the benefit. I use it aswell. My initial point was the high ISO capability. That was the reason I loved the K-5 and now the K-1. The K-3 was not very forgiving.
05-09-2016, 01:07 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
You mention bugs in the K-1. I have not found any, what are they?

When it comes to slow shutter speeds handheld I get it, with older cameras high ISO was a bitch but the K-1 really can crank it up so that you don't need the 1 second exposure, but yes, I do, really, understand the benefit. I use it aswell. My initial point was the high ISO capability. That was the reason I loved the K-5 and now the K-1. The K-3 was not very forgiving.
All firmware with that amount of code will have bugs, it is inevitable. I've come across some light metering issue on mine. it wanted to expose a image outside sunlit at F2.8 for 4 seconds... Also it has engaged fokus motor a few times without me asking it to (pressing any button, atleast I don't think I touched the AF or main button at the time)
05-09-2016, 01:25 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by discharged Quote
All firmware with that amount of code will have bugs, it is inevitable. I've come across some light metering issue on mine. it wanted to expose a image outside sunlit at F2.8 for 4 seconds... Also it has engaged fokus motor a few times without me asking it to (pressing any button, atleast I don't think I touched the AF or main button at the time)
I expect some issues for sure but have not so far. I have so far been telling me that the metering is superb Ok, I will say knock on wood a few times next time I have any thoughts like that. Hope you just unintentionally touched a button. Well, future will tell I guess.
05-09-2016, 03:16 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
You mention bugs in the K-1. I have not found any, what are they?

When it comes to slow shutter speeds handheld I get it, with older cameras high ISO was a bitch but the K-1 really can crank it up so that you don't need the 1 second exposure, but yes, I do, really, understand the benefit. I use it aswell. My initial point was the high ISO capability. That was the reason I loved the K-5 and now the K-1. The K-3 was not very forgiving.
Only bug so far is my FA31 and 77 are read as f1.7 on the screen when wide open.
05-09-2016, 07:45 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by FtYoU Quote
Does this mean that the pixel shift feature can be used handheld ? I am not sure you can do that but if you take 4 pictures < 1s, it should eventually lead to an amazing shot handheld.
No, you cannot shoot pixel shift handheld under any circumstance that I'm aware of. The reason being is that if the camera senses any movement on a pixel, it will NOT use the pixel shifted resolution on that pixel, and instead just leave the original fist shot pixel there. This means that if a leaf moves in your shot, it will appear still rather than appearing 3 more times a slightly different spots.

Now, knowing this, what happens when you ever so slightly move the camera during pixel shift? Well every single pixel will move slightly. EVERY single pixel. Meaning that for every pixel the camera will choose to just keep the original one from the first shot, and wont incorporate any of the follow up shots. So you will just be taking a normal photo at that point.

To use pixel shift the camera must be stationary for this exact reason. Even if the subject is perfectly still, if the camera moves in relation to it, then it will override the pixel shift resolution.
05-09-2016, 11:50 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ginnipe Quote
No, you cannot shoot pixel shift handheld under any circumstance that I'm aware of. The reason being is that if the camera senses any movement on a pixel, it will NOT use the pixel shifted resolution on that pixel, and instead just leave the original fist shot pixel there. This means that if a leaf moves in your shot, it will appear still rather than appearing 3 more times a slightly different spots. Now, knowing this, what happens when you ever so slightly move the camera during pixel shift? Well every single pixel will move slightly. EVERY single pixel. Meaning that for every pixel the camera will choose to just keep the original one from the first shot, and wont incorporate any of the follow up shots. So you will just be taking a normal photo at that point. To use pixel shift the camera must be stationary for this exact reason. Even if the subject is perfectly still, if the camera moves in relation to it, then it will override the pixel shift resolution.
Since PS only shift the sensor for about 1 pixel, it would make sense that shake reduction would be applied at the same time, reducing de facto the range of the shift. This would allow pixel shift handheld. Unfortunately I don't find any reference online for this, so I guess you are right and they didn't go implementing this.
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