Re: K1 mirror kickback

candgpics · 05-20-2016, 10:00 PM

Hi. I took a chance on an Amazon warehouse deal on a K1.

Two issues have arisen. Or so I think.

First, all of the lenses that I have tried so far front focus to some extent (the three amigos, the FA 100 macro, and the DA* 300). The macro was the least out of alignment. I may try a global adjustment of +3 to see if that works. If not I will try each lens. I also will try other lenses over the coming days.

Second, there is definitely a rebound or kickback after each shutter press. I have read the K1's shutter is well dampened. Is there also mirror kickback? Is this due to the larger mass of the full frame assembly? The more advanced SR system? My K3 bodies and the K5ii do not feel this way.

I am just trying to see if these are perhaps due to me being inexperienced with full frame cameras or are perhaps the reasons this was an Amazon Warehouse deal.

Thank you in advance.

**jatrax** · 05-20-2016, 10:08 PM

Considering this camera is sold out almost everyone I am a bit amazed there was anything at the warehouse deal site. Those are, I think, items that have been returned by a buyer correct?

Anyway, re front focus, none of my lenses that have in lens motors required any fine focus tuning. However, all of my screw drive lenses required an adjustment.

Re mirror kickback? Not sure I understand what you mean. My k-1 seems smooth as silk, quieter than the k-3 I think.

candgpics · 05-20-2016, 10:19 PM

Hi. Thank you for the reply. After each shutter button press you can feel the camera move after the mirror goes up and the shutter opens and closes. Kind of like shooting at the range. The camera actually has a slight bouncy kickback. It's the best way I can describe it.

The 3 Limiteds are all off and will need an AF adjustment. The FA 100 was pretty close. The DA* 300 seemed about as far off as the Limiteds--not terribly far off, but approximately a +3 will be needed.

**jbinpg** · 05-20-2016, 10:41 PM

just so you don't go making things worse, if your lenses are front focusing, you will need to dial in some negative compensation on your K-1, not positive. This is opposite from some other camera manufacturers. And I have not noticed any mirror bounce on my K-1.

Adam · 05-20-2016, 10:56 PM

It could be the SR that you're hearing.

biz-engineer · 05-20-2016, 10:57 PM

not sure its a mirror bounce. the feling is certainlydifferent from apsc cameras. on k1 i can feel some feedback from the mirror box after actuation, i guess that' s because of more mass in motion vs apsc and the way it if designed or 5 axis sensor block stabilization. on k1 i can hear the sensor block being fixed when tge ligth meter switches on and sensor block being released after image is taken...i guess this implementation is to save power.

candgpics · 05-20-2016, 10:58 PM

Hi. My mistake on the +3. I did mean the other way.

I have never purchased an expensive electronic item from Amazon Warehouse. So, I likely am being a bit overly cautious. There definitely is a slight bounce to the camera after each shutter actuation.

kenspo · 05-20-2016, 11:04 PM

I dont know how to explain this in english, but the mirror on K-1 is more "floating" then it normally is on a dslr. I suspect this is the "bounce" you feel.

Not a Number · 05-20-2016, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by kenspo

I dont know how to explain this in english, but the mirror on K-1 is more "floating" then it normally is on a dslr.

Oddly enough on the English K-1 Features page on the Ricoh website it is called the "Floating Mirror Structure"

(See bottom section of webpage)

Features4 | PENTAX K-1 | RICOH IMAGING

kenspo · 05-20-2016, 11:44 PM

Hehe, thank you! I have never been reading there or in the manual

I just know the things after a "walkthrough" with Ricoh. I think i will read these pages

**TwoUptons** · 05-21-2016, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by candgpics

Hi. My mistake on the +3. I did mean the other way.

I have never purchased an expensive electronic item from Amazon Warehouse. So, I likely am being a bit overly cautious. There definitely is a slight bounce to the camera after each shutter actuation.

Are you using it with Live View?

As I'm used to a K10 (no live view) and a K-01 (no mirror), the "double-click" of the K1 when shooting in live view was a bit weird.

Otherwise, to me it seems like a well-damped regular shutter...

-Eric

Winder · 05-21-2016, 06:59 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by candgpics

Hi. I took a chance on an Amazon warehouse deal on a K1.

Two issues have arisen. Or so I think.

First, all of the lenses that I have tried so far front focus to some extent (the three amigos, the FA 100 macro, and the DA* 300). The macro was the least out of alignment. I may try a global adjustment of +3 to see if that works. If not I will try each lens. I also will try other lenses over the coming days.

Second, there is definitely a rebound or kickback after each shutter press. I have read the K1's shutter is well dampened. Is there also mirror kickback? Is this due to the larger mass of the full frame assembly? The more advanced SR system? My K3 bodies and the K5ii do not feel this way.

I am just trying to see if these are perhaps due to me being inexperienced with full frame cameras or are perhaps the reasons this was an Amazon Warehouse deal.

Thank you in advance.

Send it to Ricoh to get it fixed or return the camera. None of my lenses have needed AF adjustment.

The rebound you are feeling is the mirror. By the time the mirror returns, the shutter is already closed. It has no effect on image quality.

candgpics · 05-21-2016, 07:36 AM

Hi:

Thank you all for the replies.

I have been shooting with Pentax DSLRs since the K20D. I then owned the K7, K5, K5ii (still have one), and two K3 bodies (have both). Now the K1.

Before the K3 almost none of my lenses needed AF adjustment or the needed adjustment was so slight I never really noticed. With the K3 that went out the door. Most of my lenses need some adjustment.

I often shoot at 2.8 (on fast zooms) and f2 through f2.5 on primes. I shoot MMA and BJJ a lot and the light is often uneven and/or low. So, AF accuracy is very important. I often am relatively close to the action--so, the depth of field is still not that large.

Pentax is not really the camera for fast action, but I have made due. I almost switched to Nikon a couple of years ago, but in the end I did not think making the change--or starting a second system--would dramatically change the quality of my images. I also shoot for fun and not really for the money.

So, I will continue to play around with the K1 and see how my lenses work.

I do not see any image degradation due to shutter/mirror vibration, but I definitely feel the camera "jump" slightly after every shutter actuation. This is different from the K3 and K5ii.

I am perhaps a bit more hesitant/concerned about possible issues due to the camera being an Amazon Warehouse deal. I tried to get the shutter count, but have been unable to do so with online readers or in the Adobe Bridge EXIF data. My understanding is that the shutter count may be reflected in the image number of the actual pictures. It appears as if the image numbers started at 0054.

I want to make sure there are no issues with the camera, but also want to make sure I do not unnecessarily return the camera as perhaps the previous buyer did.

You all are so helpful and other forum members have always been great about answering my many questions.

If there are people who do not have the K1 or a certain lens and would like me to take a few shots here and there with a certain lens, let me know.

I have the Samyang 8 mm fisheye, Sigma 10-20 mm (f4-5.6), Sigma 24 mm f1.8, the 31, 43, and 77 Limiteds, Sigma 17-50 f 2.8, DA* 55, FA WR 100 Macro, Sigma 70-200 f2.8 (the newest one before it was discontinued in the Pentax mount), and the DA* 300. Some crop, some FF.

Thank you again.

Gimbal · 05-21-2016, 09:31 AM

If you listen to the shutter sound of the K-1 in single frame mode you first hear the shutter cycle, then half a second later a more silent thump. This thump (my guess) is the SR system turning off and the image sensor falling down creating a thump when hitting rock bottom. I imagine you can feel this as a slight knock in the camera.

rawr · 05-21-2016, 09:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by candgpics

I tried to get the shutter count

Check Camera Shutter Count and Manufacture Date
Also: EXIFTOOL

Also no need to be anxious about camera problems until something seriously goes wrong. Chances are, nothing will.

And yes some lenses will need adjustment. It's not just the camera that causes lenses to be off and require AF adjust. It's the pairing of body and lens. More the lens than the camera, most times.

FWIW, my Tamron 28-75 needs -10 on the K-1, but the others I've used haven't. But I expect as I use other lenses, they may need some tweaking too. It's just how it goes.

05-20-2016, 10:00 PM	#1
candgpics Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 394	Re: K1 mirror kickback Hi. I took a chance on an Amazon warehouse deal on a K1. Two issues have arisen. Or so I think. First, all of the lenses that I have tried so far front focus to some extent (the three amigos, the FA 100 macro, and the DA* 300). The macro was the least out of alignment. I may try a global adjustment of +3 to see if that works. If not I will try each lens. I also will try other lenses over the coming days. Second, there is definitely a rebound or kickback after each shutter press. I have read the K1's shutter is well dampened. Is there also mirror kickback? Is this due to the larger mass of the full frame assembly? The more advanced SR system? My K3 bodies and the K5ii do not feel this way. I am just trying to see if these are perhaps due to me being inexperienced with full frame cameras or are perhaps the reasons this was an Amazon Warehouse deal. Thank you in advance.

05-20-2016, 10:56 PM	#5
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,595	It could be the SR that you're hearing. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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05-20-2016, 10:08 PM	#2
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Considering this camera is sold out almost everyone I am a bit amazed there was anything at the warehouse deal site. Those are, I think, items that have been returned by a buyer correct? Anyway, re front focus, none of my lenses that have in lens motors required any fine focus tuning. However, all of my screw drive lenses required an adjustment. Re mirror kickback? Not sure I understand what you mean. My k-1 seems smooth as silk, quieter than the k-3 I think.

05-20-2016, 10:19 PM	#3
candgpics Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 394 Original Poster	Hi. Thank you for the reply. After each shutter button press you can feel the camera move after the mirror goes up and the shutter opens and closes. Kind of like shooting at the range. The camera actually has a slight bouncy kickback. It's the best way I can describe it. The 3 Limiteds are all off and will need an AF adjustment. The FA 100 was pretty close. The DA* 300 seemed about as far off as the Limiteds--not terribly far off, but approximately a +3 will be needed.

05-20-2016, 10:41 PM	#4
jbinpg Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Prince George, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,546	just so you don't go making things worse, if your lenses are front focusing, you will need to dial in some negative compensation on your K-1, not positive. This is opposite from some other camera manufacturers. And I have not noticed any mirror bounce on my K-1.

05-20-2016, 10:57 PM	#6
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	not sure its a mirror bounce. the feling is certainlydifferent from apsc cameras. on k1 i can feel some feedback from the mirror box after actuation, i guess that' s because of more mass in motion vs apsc and the way it if designed or 5 axis sensor block stabilization. on k1 i can hear the sensor block being fixed when tge ligth meter switches on and sensor block being released after image is taken...i guess this implementation is to save power.

05-20-2016, 10:58 PM	#7
candgpics Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 394 Original Poster	Hi. My mistake on the +3. I did mean the other way. I have never purchased an expensive electronic item from Amazon Warehouse. So, I likely am being a bit overly cautious. There definitely is a slight bounce to the camera after each shutter actuation.

05-20-2016, 11:04 PM	#8
kenspo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Oslo Posts: 2,207	I dont know how to explain this in english, but the mirror on K-1 is more "floating" then it normally is on a dslr. I suspect this is the "bounce" you feel.

05-20-2016, 11:35 PM	#9
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Originally posted by kenspo I dont know how to explain this in english, but the mirror on K-1 is more "floating" then it normally is on a dslr. Oddly enough on the English K-1 Features page on the Ricoh website it is called the "Floating Mirror Structure" (See bottom section of webpage) Features4 \| PENTAX K-1 \| RICOH IMAGING

05-20-2016, 11:44 PM	#10
kenspo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Oslo Posts: 2,207	Hehe, thank you! I have never been reading there or in the manual I just know the things after a "walkthrough" with Ricoh. I think i will read these pages

05-21-2016, 06:07 AM	#11
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,214	Originally posted by candgpics Hi. My mistake on the +3. I did mean the other way. I have never purchased an expensive electronic item from Amazon Warehouse. So, I likely am being a bit overly cautious. There definitely is a slight bounce to the camera after each shutter actuation. Are you using it with Live View? As I'm used to a K10 (no live view) and a K-01 (no mirror), the "double-click" of the K1 when shooting in live view was a bit weird. Otherwise, to me it seems like a well-damped regular shutter... -Eric

05-21-2016, 06:59 AM - 1 Like	#12
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by candgpics Hi. I took a chance on an Amazon warehouse deal on a K1. Two issues have arisen. Or so I think. First, all of the lenses that I have tried so far front focus to some extent (the three amigos, the FA 100 macro, and the DA* 300). The macro was the least out of alignment. I may try a global adjustment of +3 to see if that works. If not I will try each lens. I also will try other lenses over the coming days. Second, there is definitely a rebound or kickback after each shutter press. I have read the K1's shutter is well dampened. Is there also mirror kickback? Is this due to the larger mass of the full frame assembly? The more advanced SR system? My K3 bodies and the K5ii do not feel this way. I am just trying to see if these are perhaps due to me being inexperienced with full frame cameras or are perhaps the reasons this was an Amazon Warehouse deal. Thank you in advance. Send it to Ricoh to get it fixed or return the camera. None of my lenses have needed AF adjustment. The rebound you are feeling is the mirror. By the time the mirror returns, the shutter is already closed. It has no effect on image quality.

05-21-2016, 07:36 AM	#13
candgpics Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Maine, USA Posts: 394 Original Poster	Hi: Thank you all for the replies. I have been shooting with Pentax DSLRs since the K20D. I then owned the K7, K5, K5ii (still have one), and two K3 bodies (have both). Now the K1. Before the K3 almost none of my lenses needed AF adjustment or the needed adjustment was so slight I never really noticed. With the K3 that went out the door. Most of my lenses need some adjustment. I often shoot at 2.8 (on fast zooms) and f2 through f2.5 on primes. I shoot MMA and BJJ a lot and the light is often uneven and/or low. So, AF accuracy is very important. I often am relatively close to the action--so, the depth of field is still not that large. Pentax is not really the camera for fast action, but I have made due. I almost switched to Nikon a couple of years ago, but in the end I did not think making the change--or starting a second system--would dramatically change the quality of my images. I also shoot for fun and not really for the money. So, I will continue to play around with the K1 and see how my lenses work. I do not see any image degradation due to shutter/mirror vibration, but I definitely feel the camera "jump" slightly after every shutter actuation. This is different from the K3 and K5ii. I am perhaps a bit more hesitant/concerned about possible issues due to the camera being an Amazon Warehouse deal. I tried to get the shutter count, but have been unable to do so with online readers or in the Adobe Bridge EXIF data. My understanding is that the shutter count may be reflected in the image number of the actual pictures. It appears as if the image numbers started at 0054. I want to make sure there are no issues with the camera, but also want to make sure I do not unnecessarily return the camera as perhaps the previous buyer did. You all are so helpful and other forum members have always been great about answering my many questions. If there are people who do not have the K1 or a certain lens and would like me to take a few shots here and there with a certain lens, let me know. I have the Samyang 8 mm fisheye, Sigma 10-20 mm (f4-5.6), Sigma 24 mm f1.8, the 31, 43, and 77 Limiteds, Sigma 17-50 f 2.8, DA* 55, FA WR 100 Macro, Sigma 70-200 f2.8 (the newest one before it was discontinued in the Pentax mount), and the DA* 300. Some crop, some FF. Thank you again.

05-21-2016, 09:31 AM	#14
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	If you listen to the shutter sound of the K-1 in single frame mode you first hear the shutter cycle, then half a second later a more silent thump. This thump (my guess) is the SR system turning off and the image sensor falling down creating a thump when hitting rock bottom. I imagine you can feel this as a slight knock in the camera.

05-21-2016, 09:51 AM - 1 Like	#15
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by candgpics I tried to get the shutter count Check Camera Shutter Count and Manufacture Date Also: EXIFTOOL Also no need to be anxious about camera problems until something seriously goes wrong. Chances are, nothing will. And yes some lenses will need adjustment. It's not just the camera that causes lenses to be off and require AF adjust. It's the pairing of body and lens. More the lens than the camera, most times. FWIW, my Tamron 28-75 needs -10 on the K-1, but the others I've used haven't. But I expect as I use other lenses, they may need some tweaking too. It's just how it goes.