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05-28-2016, 07:01 AM   #1
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K1 pixel shift question

It seems that with pixel shift the K1 uses an electronic shutter. Does anyone knows what the maximum speed of that shutter is?
I'm experimenting to get a blue tit pixel shifted without any blur (so not with MC enabled). I can get the bird normally pixel sharp at 1/320 sec but not pixel shifted at 1/3200 sec. It seems that the shutter doesn't operate that fast. Any ideas?

05-28-2016, 07:20 AM   #2
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The max burst speed is just over 4 frames per second (6 in crop mode). I can't imagine the k-1 will somehow do better than that with pixel shift? The shutter may fire at 1/320, but there will be around 1/4 delay between each frame. I can't imagine a blue tit sitting still for a whole second!
05-28-2016, 07:24 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by robthebloke Quote
The max burst speed is just over 4 frames per second (6 in crop mode). I can't imagine the k-1 will somehow do better than that with pixel shift? The shutter may fire at 1/320, but there will be around 1/4 delay between each frame. I can't imagine a blue tit sitting still for a whole second!
I think the OP meant that with electronic shutter enabled, the specs frame rate is irrelevant ( the mirror is not flapping ).
But I don't have a K1 ( yet ) so can't answer this...
05-28-2016, 07:26 AM   #4
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Sorry, what do you mean by MC? I'm a bit unclear what your issue is here - with pixelshift on K3ii, it's perfectly possible to use 1/8000 (I just did in testing)

05-28-2016, 07:28 AM   #5
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It's probably less than 1/30s (even 1/60s) given that it can be used for video too.
05-28-2016, 07:48 AM   #6
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I am quite interesting in what you are attempting, please let us know if you get some images.
05-28-2016, 07:56 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
Sorry, what do you mean by MC? I'm a bit unclear what your issue is here - with pixelshift on K3ii, it's perfectly possible to use 1/8000 (I just did in testing)
MC is motion correction and on the K1 you can choose to have that enabled or not. On the K1 you can use 1/8000 as well but it doesn't mean all photos using PS will be the same taken at 1/2000. Getting a normal pixel sharp photo at 1/500 isn't the same as a pixel shifted photo using 1/2000 (4x1/500), there's a delay somewhere. And i'm curious what the most max optimum speed is using PS with/without MC

---------- Post added 28th May 2016 at 16:59 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I am quite interesting in what you are attempting, please let us know if you get some images.
the idea is to get a photo of a small bird using pixel shift (MC not used)
05-28-2016, 08:10 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by ybo1 Quote
I think the OP meant that with electronic shutter enabled, the specs frame rate is irrelevant ( the mirror is not flapping ).
In LV mode (no mirror motion), can't go higher than 4 FPS either. One of the bottleneck between each shot is moving the data from the sensor to a FIFO, even the mechanical shutter not being the issue here because it can open/close as fast as 1/8000th of a second.

05-28-2016, 08:21 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
In LV mode (no mirror motion), can't go higher than 4 FPS either. One of the bottleneck between each shot is moving the data from the sensor to a FIFO, even the mechanical shutter not being the issue here because it can open/close as fast as 1/8000th of a second.
So, if i understand you correctly, max speed using PS is 1/25? So every other speed you are trying to use is of no avail?
05-28-2016, 08:22 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
MC is motion correction and on the K1 you can choose to have that enabled or not. On the K1 you can use 1/8000 as well but it doesn't mean all photos using PS will be the same taken at 1/2000. Getting a normal pixel sharp photo at 1/500 isn't the same as a pixel shifted photo using 1/2000 (4x1/500), there's a delay somewhere. And i'm curious what the most max optimum speed is using PS with/without MC

---------- Post added 28th May 2016 at 16:59 ----------



the idea is to get a photo of a small bird using pixel shift (MC not used)
If you can do that, I'd pretty much have to buy a K-3 or a K-1.
05-28-2016, 08:54 AM   #11
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my idea/perception is: a single photo (pixel sharp) is taken at 1/250sec. So pixel shift sharp should be at least 4x1/250sec= 1/1000 or any variation on it. But that isn't the case: why?
05-28-2016, 09:03 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
So, if i understand you correctly, max speed using PS is 1/25? So every other speed you are trying to use is of no avail?
I don't think there is a speed limit on single pixelshift exposures. Electronic shutters in mirrorless camera's are often faster than mechanical ones. Must be something else. What does the exif say about the shutter speed? Could you post an image?
05-28-2016, 09:03 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
So, if i understand you correctly, max speed using PS is 1/25? So every other speed you are trying to use is of no avail?
Not quite. PS will take four separate exposures at any shutter speed you select. There is a delay between each exposure to read out the sensor data. Then the four images are combined (in-camera for jpg, in PDCU for raw) to make a single image. So while you can use a high shutter speed in PS, the total time for a PS shot is relatively long because the camera is reading sensor data between exposures. That's why PS shots of small nervous birds would be a problem. Each of the individual exposures won't show motion if you use high enough shutter speed, but in between exposures enough time elapses for the bird to move.
05-28-2016, 09:23 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by cfraz Quote
Not quite. PS will take four separate exposures at any shutter speed you select. There is a delay between each exposure to read out the sensor data. Then the four images are combined (in-camera for jpg, in PDCU for raw) to make a single image. So while you can use a high shutter speed in PS, the total time for a PS shot is relatively long because the camera is reading sensor data between exposures. That's why PS shots of small nervous birds would be a problem. Each of the individual exposures won't show motion if you use high enough shutter speed, but in between exposures enough time elapses for the bird to move.
so any idea what the delay timewise is?
05-28-2016, 11:43 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
my idea/perception is: a single photo (pixel sharp) is taken at 1/250sec. So pixel shift sharp should be at least 4x1/250sec= 1/1000 or any variation on it. But that isn't the case: why?
thats incorrect.

4 x 1/250 = 4/250 = 1/(250/4) ~1/60

however the camera seems to be restricted by a certain (perhaps artificial) limit of its e-shutter. i guess 1/25 or 1/30 comes very close to what is actually the PS speed the camera operates at (~4fps). Perhaps it may also be the processor or the buffer-capacity or rate of buffer-clearing.
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