What you could do with a K1 that you can't do without

biz-engineer · 06-21-2016, 10:12 AM - **1 Like**

Found this photographer's site Las Vegas Family Photographer | LJHolloway Photography.

Pretty amazing. Could be done with a Pentax K1 and fast tele lens, in suitable lighting, choice of background and colors.

alamo5000 · 06-21-2016, 10:52 AM

Definitely some good shots there.

panoguy · 06-21-2016, 10:53 AM

Or... brenizer method Archives - Ryan Brenizer - NYC Wedding Photographer. Storyteller, problem solver. » Ryan Brenizer — NYC Wedding Photographer. Storyteller, problem solver.

Heie · 06-21-2016, 11:00 AM - **5 Likes**

While it would take a bit more deliberation and a longer working distance, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason you can't do this with a Pentax crop and a sharp, capable prime such as the DFA 100 f/2.8 Macro WR or Samyang 135 F2 wide open. I've come pretty damn close a few times despite not going for that style.

Gorgeous work, but certifiably not exclusive to full frame.

And despite carrying the namesake to the technique, I find Brenizer to not be that good at it. The final quality of his images are quite pedestrian and frankly lackluster for someone of such unparalleled acclaim imo...

Ett Venter produces far more gorgeous Brenizers, and he is shooting with Fuji mirrorless...

-Heie

Last edited by Heie; 06-21-2016 at 11:36 AM.

biz-engineer · 06-21-2016, 11:28 AM

Oh yeah, I used to use a pano head, stitch panoramas, also for wide angle, it is cheaper but takes more time, in some cases you can do it, people can't wait for so long that you have to tweak for nodal point. Now I point and shot with the K1

stevebrot · 06-21-2016, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Heie

Gorgeous work, but certifiably not exclusive to full frame.

Yep...the technique may be used with most (all?) cameras, but is particularly useful for smaller than medium format.

Steve

Qwntm · 06-21-2016, 11:49 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Heie

While it would take a bit more deliberation and a longer working distance, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason you can't do this with a Pentax crop and a sharp, capable prime such as the DFA 100 f/2.8 Macro WR or Samyang 135 F2 wide open. I've come pretty damn close a few times despite not going for that style.

Gorgeous work, but certifiably not exclusive to full frame.

And despite carrying the namesake to the technique, I find Brenizer to not be that good at it. The final quality of his images are quite pedestrian and frankly lackluster for someone of such unparalleled acclaim imo...

Ett Venter produces far more gorgeous Brenizers, and he is shooting with Fuji mirrorless...

-Heie

ABSOLUTELY!

What I find funny about people saying that "This is what FF can do" is that they never seem to realize that all that has also been done with crop as well. It's just that you happened to come across an example of it done with FF. If you are a bad photographer, FF is just going to help you make more expensive bad photographs, and lessons, study and practice will be far more effective than buying any gear to improve your work.

Look at what Damien Lovegrove Home - ProPhotoNut does with Fuji crop cameras, FF is definitely NOT the factor that matters when trying to do this work.

Don't get me wrong, I like having the option available should I ever find myself needing it, and anything that breaths life into Pentax's coffers is a plus as long as it doesn't come at the expense of the APS-c system.

Fat Albert · 06-21-2016, 11:53 AM - **7 Likes**

I can swing it around by its rear LCD screen, which I could NOT do with my K3 II. Pentax/Ricoh have made a winner!!!

biz-engineer · 06-21-2016, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Qwntm

What I find funny about people saying that "This is what FF can do" is that they never seem to realize that all that has also been done with crop as well.

Not the same, you have to look twice. Sounds like the persons saying that the same can be done without full frame haven't done much bokeh panorama if none at all. When you stitch images with a person included in the frame, you can't ask them to stop breathing and completely freeze their body for the time you're taken multiple shot with a smaller format camera. At least you have to fully include the person you are photographing in a single frame, or have issues to align images when stitching, which greatly limit how much effect you can achieve with a smaller format camera. Do a bokeh panorama with a small camera and redo on with a larger format, the subtle perspective effect that project the view of the observer on the subject is hard to achieve below full frame.

bertwert · 06-21-2016, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Fat Albert

I can swing it around by its rear LCD screen, which I could NOT do with my K3 II. Pentax/Ricoh have made a winner!!!

Qwntm · 06-21-2016, 12:13 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Not the same, you have to look twice. Sounds like the persons saying that the same can be done without full frame haven't done much bokeh panorama if none at all. When you stitch images with a person included in the frame, you can't ask them to stop breathing and completely freeze their body for the time you're taken multiple shot with a smaller format camera. At least you have to fully include the person you are photographing in a single frame, or have issues to align images when stitching, which greatly limit how much effect you can achieve with a smaller format camera. Do a bokeh panorama with a small camera and redo on with a larger format, the subtle perspective effect that project the view of the observer on the subject is hard to achieve below full frame.

Who said anything about stitching? Honestly I am not sure what you are saying.

At the two websites that were mentioned, I see nothing on either one of them that could not be done with a crop camera, 1 shot, and enlarged to 30x40 inch print.

I have full confidence that a bokeh panorama is as easy to achieve with a crop as it is with a FF. These examples are not panos, but they make the point:

D810, 20mm lens

K5IIs 15mm ltd

I know Chloe is further back in the crop shot, but look at DOF in the grass, it's about the same for each shot.

I will also add this example:

Canon 6D, 24-70L - Not a bokeh shot at all but a single FF frame cropped to pano aspect

K3II 55-300 Single APS-C frame cropped to pano format.

Not only was it difficult to see any difference between FF and APS-C in my tests, the FF 6D actually proved inferior in IQ to the APS-c. (And that was Canon's $1000 L glass vs. Pentax's Consumer grade $300 zoom)

**macman24054** · 06-21-2016, 12:31 PM

As far as bokeh is concerned a FF is superior. With aps-c you have to use subject to background distance and subject to foreground distance to your advantage. There is a reason the DA* 50-135 is one of the most popular portrait lenses on the forum. The rendering from it's lens compression can be just as pleasing to the eye as FF bokeh. Jpeg straight out of my K-50.

panoguy · 06-21-2016, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Heie

Ett Venter produces far more gorgeous Brenizers, and he is shooting with Fuji mirrorless...

That is some great work, and I'm not partial to wedding photos (though I know you are, in a professional sense). Looks like Fuji medium-format to me.

jake14mw · 06-21-2016, 12:50 PM

Firstly, I am guessing that Holloway could create a LOT better photos with my K-5iis and 77mm, than I could with her 5D Mark iii and Canon EF 200mm f/2L. Talent trumps over equipment any day. I LOVE her work.

The K-1 and (pick your Pentax lens) could do well, but unfortunately has no real match for a Canon EF 200mm f/2L For me, it doesn’t matter that Pentax does not have a match for that combination, because even if they did, I would never have the $9,000.00 to pay for it anyway!

Heie · 06-21-2016, 01:07 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

Sounds like the persons saying that the same can be done without full frame haven't done much bokeh panorama if none at all.

Sounds you like haven't if none at all

Originally posted by Qwntm

I have full confidence that a bokeh panorama is as easy to achieve with a crop as it is with a FF.

K-3, DA* 55 and 3 shots at F1.8 (haven't calculated the resulting equivalent FoV/aperture)

K-3, Sigma 85. 42 shots combined to make a calculated equivalent of 18mm f/0.7 (yes, 0.7):

Originally posted by macman24054

As far as bokeh is concerned a FF is superior. With aps-c you have to use subject to background distance and subject to foreground distance to your advantage. There is a reason the DA* 50-135 is one of the most popular portrait lenses on the forum. The rendering from it's lens compression can be just as pleasing to the eye as FF bokeh. Jpeg straight out of my K-50.

Umm...

Bokeh is not a "sensor-size thing." It's a "lens thing"...

It's easier to create bokeh on larger sensors simply because the depth of field is inherently shallower (which logic then yields "more is out of focus" or "less is in focus" - which ever you prefer). Physics is kind of the law that way...

But despite depth of field being largely based on sensor-size, it is certainly not exclusively dictated by it.

Compression =/= bokeh.

K-3/K-5 IIs, DA* 55 for all of these:

K-3/K-5 IIs, FA 77 for all of these:

K-3, Sigma 85 for these

Originally posted by macman24054

As far as bokeh is concerned a FF is superior. With aps-c you have to use subject to background distance and subject to foreground distance to your advantage. There is a reason the DA* 50-135 is one of the most popular portrait lenses on the forum. The rendering from it's lens compression can be just as pleasing to the eye as FF bokeh. Jpeg straight out of my K-50.

Compression has actually little to do with Bokeh as it's instead how an image is (or isn't) distorted based on where features within an image fall in relation to each other (i.e. spatial distance between ears, nose, and mouth). But bokeh is 100% possible without telephoto compression...

K-3, Sigma 18-35 @ 18mm

The reason the 50-135 is one of the most popular portrait lenses is because it is the APS-C equivalent to the "standard" 70-200mm on FF.

It's frustrating the amount of people that contribute to discussions such as this and attempt to pass themselves off as definitive expertise on a subject when they (apparently completely unknowingly) do not know what they are talking about. Nothing but proliferating misinformation.

Incredibly irritating...

Originally posted by panoguy

That is some great work, and I'm not partial to wedding photos (though I know you are, in a professional sense). Looks like Fuji medium-format to me.

Yea I'm in love with his style of Brenizers. They're just so clean and perfect

Fuji X-T1 is what he uses after ditching his Nikon FF gear. As a lover of primes I tried to get him to consider Pentax and the limiteds, but Fuji already had their hooks sunk in him haha

And I'm "partial" to them because for some reason I enjoy the chaos and photojournalism aspect of it

-HeieAdd to Anti-Banner

06-21-2016, 10:12 AM - 1 Like	#1
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,242	What you could do with a K1 that you can't do without Found this photographer's site Las Vegas Family Photographer \| LJHolloway Photography. Pretty amazing. Could be done with a Pentax K1 and fast tele lens, in suitable lighting, choice of background and colors.

06-21-2016, 12:13 PM - 1 Like	#11
Qwntm Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Eastern Oregon Posts: 856	Originally posted by biz-engineer Not the same, you have to look twice. Sounds like the persons saying that the same can be done without full frame haven't done much bokeh panorama if none at all. When you stitch images with a person included in the frame, you can't ask them to stop breathing and completely freeze their body for the time you're taken multiple shot with a smaller format camera. At least you have to fully include the person you are photographing in a single frame, or have issues to align images when stitching, which greatly limit how much effect you can achieve with a smaller format camera. Do a bokeh panorama with a small camera and redo on with a larger format, the subtle perspective effect that project the view of the observer on the subject is hard to achieve below full frame. Who said anything about stitching? Honestly I am not sure what you are saying. At the two websites that were mentioned, I see nothing on either one of them that could not be done with a crop camera, 1 shot, and enlarged to 30x40 inch print. I have full confidence that a bokeh panorama is as easy to achieve with a crop as it is with a FF. These examples are not panos, but they make the point: D810, 20mm lens K5IIs 15mm ltd I know Chloe is further back in the crop shot, but look at DOF in the grass, it's about the same for each shot. I will also add this example: Canon 6D, 24-70L - Not a bokeh shot at all but a single FF frame cropped to pano aspect K3II 55-300 Single APS-C frame cropped to pano format. Not only was it difficult to see any difference between FF and APS-C in my tests, the FF 6D actually proved inferior in IQ to the APS-c. (And that was Canon's $1000 L glass vs. Pentax's Consumer grade $300 zoom) Last edited by Qwntm; 06-21-2016 at 12:25 PM.

06-21-2016, 01:07 PM - 3 Likes	#15
Heie Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 968	Originally posted by biz-engineer Sounds like the persons saying that the same can be done without full frame haven't done much bokeh panorama if none at all. Sounds you like haven't if none at all Originally posted by Qwntm I have full confidence that a bokeh panorama is as easy to achieve with a crop as it is with a FF. *K-3, DA 55 and 3 shots at F1.8 (haven't calculated the resulting equivalent FoV/aperture) K-3, Sigma 85. 42 shots combined to make a calculated equivalent of 18mm f/0.7 (yes, 0.7):** Originally posted by macman24054 As far as bokeh is concerned a FF is superior. With aps-c you have to use subject to background distance and subject to foreground distance to your advantage. There is a reason the DA* 50-135 is one of the most popular portrait lenses on the forum. The rendering from it's lens compression can be just as pleasing to the eye as FF bokeh. Jpeg straight out of my K-50. Umm... Bokeh is not a "sensor-size thing." It's a "lens thing"... It's easier to create bokeh on larger sensors simply because the depth of field is inherently shallower (which logic then yields "more is out of focus" or "less is in focus" - which ever you prefer). Physics is kind of the law that way... But despite depth of field being largely based on sensor-size, it is certainly not exclusively dictated by it. Compression =/= bokeh. *K-3/K-5 IIs, DA 55 for all of these: K-3/K-5 IIs, FA 77 for all of these: K-3, Sigma 85 for these** Originally posted by macman24054 As far as bokeh is concerned a FF is superior. With aps-c you have to use subject to background distance and subject to foreground distance to your advantage. There is a reason the DA* 50-135 is one of the most popular portrait lenses on the forum. The rendering from it's lens compression can be just as pleasing to the eye as FF bokeh. Jpeg straight out of my K-50. Compression has actually little to do with Bokeh as it's instead how an image is (or isn't) distorted based on where features within an image fall in relation to each other (i.e. spatial distance between ears, nose, and mouth). But bokeh is 100% possible without telephoto compression... K-3, Sigma 18-35 @ 18mm The reason the 50-135 is one of the most popular portrait lenses is because it is the APS-C equivalent to the "standard" 70-200mm on FF. It's frustrating the amount of people that contribute to discussions such as this and attempt to pass themselves off as definitive expertise on a subject when they (apparently completely unknowingly) do not know what they are talking about. Nothing but proliferating misinformation. Incredibly irritating... Originally posted by panoguy That is some great work, and I'm not partial to wedding photos (though I know you are, in a professional sense). Looks like Fuji medium-format to me. Yea I'm in love with his style of Brenizers. They're just so clean and perfect Fuji X-T1 is what he uses after ditching his Nikon FF gear. As a lover of primes I tried to get him to consider Pentax and the limiteds, but Fuji already had their hooks sunk in him haha And I'm "partial" to them because for some reason I enjoy the chaos and photojournalism aspect of it -HeieAdd to Anti-Banner Last edited by Heie; 06-21-2016 at 01:21 PM.

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06-21-2016, 10:52 AM	#2
alamo5000 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2,962	Definitely some good shots there.

06-21-2016, 10:53 AM	#3
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Or... brenizer method Archives - Ryan Brenizer - NYC Wedding Photographer. Storyteller, problem solver. » Ryan Brenizer — NYC Wedding Photographer. Storyteller, problem solver.

06-21-2016, 11:00 AM - 5 Likes	#4
Heie Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 968	While it would take a bit more deliberation and a longer working distance, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason you can't do this with a Pentax crop and a sharp, capable prime such as the DFA 100 f/2.8 Macro WR or Samyang 135 F2 wide open. I've come pretty damn close a few times despite not going for that style. Gorgeous work, but certifiably not exclusive to full frame. And despite carrying the namesake to the technique, I find Brenizer to not be that good at it. The final quality of his images are quite pedestrian and frankly lackluster for someone of such unparalleled acclaim imo... Ett Venter produces far more gorgeous Brenizers, and he is shooting with Fuji mirrorless... -Heie Last edited by Heie; 06-21-2016 at 11:36 AM.

06-21-2016, 11:28 AM	#5
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,242 Original Poster	Oh yeah, I used to use a pano head, stitch panoramas, also for wide angle, it is cheaper but takes more time, in some cases you can do it, people can't wait for so long that you have to tweak for nodal point. Now I point and shot with the K1

06-21-2016, 11:30 AM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Heie Gorgeous work, but certifiably not exclusive to full frame. Yep...the technique may be used with most (all?) cameras, but is particularly useful for smaller than medium format. Steve

06-21-2016, 11:49 AM - 1 Like	#7
Qwntm Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Eastern Oregon Posts: 856	Originally posted by Heie While it would take a bit more deliberation and a longer working distance, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason you can't do this with a Pentax crop and a sharp, capable prime such as the DFA 100 f/2.8 Macro WR or Samyang 135 F2 wide open. I've come pretty damn close a few times despite not going for that style. Gorgeous work, but certifiably not exclusive to full frame. And despite carrying the namesake to the technique, I find Brenizer to not be that good at it. The final quality of his images are quite pedestrian and frankly lackluster for someone of such unparalleled acclaim imo... Ett Venter produces far more gorgeous Brenizers, and he is shooting with Fuji mirrorless... -Heie ABSOLUTELY! What I find funny about people saying that "This is what FF can do" is that they never seem to realize that all that has also been done with crop as well. It's just that you happened to come across an example of it done with FF. If you are a bad photographer, FF is just going to help you make more expensive bad photographs, and lessons, study and practice will be far more effective than buying any gear to improve your work. Look at what Damien Lovegrove Home - ProPhotoNut does with Fuji crop cameras, FF is definitely NOT the factor that matters when trying to do this work. Don't get me wrong, I like having the option available should I ever find myself needing it, and anything that breaths life into Pentax's coffers is a plus as long as it doesn't come at the expense of the APS-c system.

06-21-2016, 11:53 AM - 7 Likes	#8
Fat Albert Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 966	I can swing it around by its rear LCD screen, which I could NOT do with my K3 II. Pentax/Ricoh have made a winner!!!

06-21-2016, 11:59 AM	#9
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,242 Original Poster	Originally posted by Qwntm What I find funny about people saying that "This is what FF can do" is that they never seem to realize that all that has also been done with crop as well. Not the same, you have to look twice. Sounds like the persons saying that the same can be done without full frame haven't done much bokeh panorama if none at all. When you stitch images with a person included in the frame, you can't ask them to stop breathing and completely freeze their body for the time you're taken multiple shot with a smaller format camera. At least you have to fully include the person you are photographing in a single frame, or have issues to align images when stitching, which greatly limit how much effect you can achieve with a smaller format camera. Do a bokeh panorama with a small camera and redo on with a larger format, the subtle perspective effect that project the view of the observer on the subject is hard to achieve below full frame.

06-21-2016, 12:03 PM	#10
bertwert Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Golden, BC Posts: 15,172	Originally posted by Fat Albert I can swing it around by its rear LCD screen, which I could NOT do with my K3 II. Pentax/Ricoh have made a winner!!!

06-21-2016, 12:41 PM	#13
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Originally posted by Heie Ett Venter produces far more gorgeous Brenizers, and he is shooting with Fuji mirrorless... That is some great work, and I'm not partial to wedding photos (though I know you are, in a professional sense). Looks like Fuji medium-format to me.

06-21-2016, 12:50 PM	#14
jake14mw Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 977	Firstly, I am guessing that Holloway could create a LOT better photos with my K-5iis and 77mm, than I could with her 5D Mark iii and Canon EF 200mm f/2L. Talent trumps over equipment any day. I LOVE her work. The K-1 and (pick your Pentax lens) could do well, but unfortunately has no real match for a Canon EF 200mm f/2L For me, it doesn’t matter that Pentax does not have a match for that combination, because even if they did, I would never have the $9,000.00 to pay for it anyway!