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07-08-2016, 08:01 AM   #181
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Cross-posted from https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/190-pentax-k-1/325371-been-banned-dprevie...ml#post3704149.

My apologies if anyone saw my (now deleted) posts. I'm starting to question DPReview's accuracy myself and it's not just Pentax that's affected. There's a general inconsistency and drop in quality affecting all of their newer reviews. However, I'd still prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.

As you may know, DPReview is run by Amazon and they have a vested interest in keeping a revenue stream. We must not exclude legitimate business interests; at the same time, however, the accuracy of content needs to be maintained for DPReview to remain a credible source. I am of the opinion that it's either an incompetent reviewer or a defective camera that led to the worse-than-expected review, and see no obvious reason to believe that foul play is involved.

I am not a member of their forums and have no plans to join due to their overly restrictive policies (the policies restrict links to any competing forum). Then again, it's their space and they have every right to protect legitimate business interests. That's why we're here on Pentax Forums.

My condolences to biz-engineer for the ban. DPReview's forums have always been like this (well before the Amazon acquisition), and thanks for trying.

Draco

---------- Post added 07-08-16 at 11:34 AM ----------

The tendency to focus to infinity on losing the lock, reported by DPReview, is not a new one. I've seen it happen several times on my K-3 II; however, it's not exactly a common occurrence and more often than not, the camera recovers and refocuses on the subject before it goes all the way to infinity. Come to think of it, this suggests a firmware bug that can be addressed in an update, similar to how the K-3 received a few updates that improved continuous shooting performance with AF.C.

There are many ways this test could have gone wrong. I'd still give them the benefit of the doubt instead of playing the blame game.

Draco

07-08-2016, 10:28 AM   #182
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" The autofocus tends to hesitate, even in AF-S mode with the center point - it’s nowhere near as fast as most Canon and Nikon DSLRs"

What do you guys make of this sentence? its essentially the deciding factor in me getting a K1 or not.
07-08-2016, 10:35 AM - 1 Like   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by lifeofdavid Quote
" The autofocus tends to hesitate, even in AF-S mode with the center point - itís nowhere near as fast as most Canon and Nikon DSLRs"

What do you guys make of this sentence? its essentially the deciding factor in me getting a K1 or not.
Welcome to the forum.
I might give that sentence some credence if it were written by anyone other than someone at DPReview.
07-08-2016, 10:55 AM   #184
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Imaging Resource:
Autofocus performance was swift, comparing well with the Pentax K-3 II in my informal, real-world testing. (And our lab testing likewise found autofocus performance to be a strength of the Pentax K-1.)

Dpreview:
Not going to copy all it's too much: Special K? Pentax K-1 Review: Digital Photography Review

So why this disparity? Wrong settings. Testing with a 1.4 Sigma lens? Incompetence? Are Imaging resource Pentax Fanboys? I don't think so.

07-08-2016, 11:08 AM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Welcome to the forum.
I might give that sentence some credence if it were written by anyone other than someone at DPReview.
Quoted for emphasis.
07-08-2016, 11:23 AM   #186
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maybe, just maybe, it's one big troll to get the exact reaction they we looking for LOL
07-08-2016, 11:23 AM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by lifeofdavid Quote
" The autofocus tends to hesitate, even in AF-S mode with the center point - itís nowhere near as fast as most Canon and Nikon DSLRs"

What do you guys make of this sentence? its essentially the deciding factor in me getting a K1 or not.
there are other testing sites and in Europe they came to the conclusion that Pentax AF-S is on par or better then Cannikon. Old news, even DPR mentioned that when comparing the K5/K3 with the competition. AF on the K! is much, much more better then the K! using DFA lenses
07-08-2016, 11:30 AM - 1 Like   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by slip Quote
maybe, just maybe, it's one big troll to get the exact reaction they we looking for LOL
I have a significant belief that the AF section is Pentaxian clickbait.

07-08-2016, 02:26 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by lifeofdavid Quote
" The autofocus tends to hesitate, even in AF-S mode with the center point - itís nowhere near as fast as most Canon and Nikon DSLRs"

What do you guys make of this sentence? its essentially the deciding factor in me getting a K1 or not.
There are two points made in that sentence. Not having a Canon or Nikon body to compare it against, I couldn't comment on the second one, though several members here have Nikon bodies as well, and they could do so. Bear in mind that, with previous generations of camera, Pentax bodies have been shown to be not as fast in acquiring focus as the equivalent competitors, but were more accurate. "Nowhere near", though, is a terribly vague and subjective term.

On the first point, I've not noticed any hesitation in any mode with the K-1's AF, other than the initial time required to acquire focus when there's a significant change in the subject distance. That, of course is dependent more on the lens than the body.
07-08-2016, 05:03 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by lifeofdavid Quote
" The autofocus tends to hesitate, even in AF-S mode with the center point - it’s nowhere near as fast as most Canon and Nikon DSLRs"
Don't pay attention to this. They have dumbly bundled up several AF performance issues together - hestitation and speed - and presented them as one.

'Hesitation' is different from 'fastness'. 'Hesitation' means, for me, a delay in action or activity, indecision. 'Fastness' means speed in action. Hesitation is the start, fastness is getting there.

Hesitation in AF can be induced in any camera if it is uncertain what to lock onto, usually if the AF has not been steered properly towards it's target, or the AF has not been setup properly, or if the target has troublesome features.

For example any AF system may hesitate if you shoot at a grey wall with no contrast or features, or if you shoot the type of scene highlighted in the diagram below (which is from the Nikon D500 manual, BTW):
07-08-2016, 05:35 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by lifeofdavid Quote
" The autofocus tends to hesitate, even in AF-S mode with the center point - it’s nowhere near as fast as most Canon and Nikon DSLRs"
I think this sentence has been amended in Section 6 (Autofocus) of the DPR review. It now states: "The autofocus tends to hesitate, even in AF-S mode with the center point - meaning it's not as consistently fast as most Canon and Nikon DSLRs."

I agree with the interpretation and definitions given by @rawr above.

I find both the original summary sentence and the revision to be vague, subjective, and arbitrary, as it does not seem to be supported completely by evidence in the review. "[C]onsistently fast" is not defined; the text should indicate what is meant by consistent. "[M]ost" implies that the review compared the test camera to all or almost all of the Canon and Nikon DSLRs - which is clearly outside the scope of this review. The text should provide at least a summary of those other models and their relative AF 'speed'. Even if the word "hesitate" were appropriate in this context, no data is provided to indicate the degree of hesitation.

The paragraph that contains this sentence mixes up several parameters, which forces the reader to read carefully and interpret meanings. For example, "hesitant behavior" could suggest that the focus system is relatively slow to initiate, but eventually focuses correctly. Or, it could mean that the AF system is slow to initiate but focus is rarely achieved.

- Craig

Last edited by c.a.m; 07-08-2016 at 05:50 PM.
07-09-2016, 01:25 AM   #192
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I think there is confusion as to the term tracking. It is either focusing on a moving object using the same focus point/sensor or else tracking the object by automatically moving from one focus point to another. Their test with a fixed camera and a weaving bike was the latter. I don't think they really tried the first method. Perhaps Nikon users are used to the 3D tracking and Pentaxians only the first.

Clearly, when the bike moved outside the small area of the focus points, it will lose tracking and will focus on the background.

We do acknowledge that Pentax is behind the top Canikons in terms af autofocus. But to condem the autofocus as poor on one aspect of focus is rather harsh.

Bit like the Bumblebee. A scientist proved that it could not fly by analysing it using fixed wing aerodynamics. The bumblebee, of course, didn't know this and continued to fly....

We will continue to enjoy our fine Pentax equipment.
07-09-2016, 02:46 AM   #193
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I think the review has mostly been fixed at this point. I get better results with a K-1 but I am also used to using Pentax equipment and know what it can't do and I am not trying to track things that are going outside of the center area. I think Monochrome gave a good description of how things transpire. The fact that review is now sanitized, leaves those vocal Pentaxians who got the language of the review changed looking like angry idiots.

I would like to see a little better consistency within their reviews with the way they test tracking auto focus. Shoot every camera with a 200mm lens, bicyclist 150 feet away, a certain level of light and then how many frames were obtained and how many were in focus.
07-09-2016, 03:21 AM   #194
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I read the DPReview review again. The conclusion of the review is what basically what Canon would write about a Pentax camera, without needing to use it. The old clichť that Pentax AF is still from film age and so on... It's review by a guy expecting a Canon. But the whole point of a Pentax camera is not to be a Canon.
07-09-2016, 03:55 AM   #195
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Anyone who's got a bike and a friend to ride the bike towards the camera while shooting? Would be nice to see a comparable test using the K-1 here right at this forum.

Can anyone help to solve the riddle? Every contribution is highly appreciated!
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