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07-09-2016, 07:19 AM   #211
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I see no problem in question a methodology that possibly this mistaken, this happens all the time, we accept worse things that do not agree because it is a famous revises.

07-09-2016, 08:30 AM   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Assuming that your choice was between three cameras: 6D, D610 and K-1 which would you choose? I would argue that a lot of their cons fall away when you limit the choice like this (because of pricing). The D610 is like the K-1 in that it has its auto focus point clustered in the center and only has nine cross type ones. The 6D is worse. None of them are great at video -- certainly not good enough to replace a dedicated camcorder. The 6D and D610 definitely have a wider lens variety available. On the other side of things, if your interest is primarily still photography, I really think (pixel shift and astro tracer aside) that you will find the RAW images from the K-1 the best and most post processing friendly of the bunch.

I don't know which one is best, but I feel like the choice would be super close and would depend primarily on which things the person deciding valued the most.
Here K1 is 2000€. D610 can be found for 1100€ and 6D for 1300€, Nikon D750 for 1500€, D810 2500€.

For price alone K1 should be compared not to D610 or 6D but is more expensive than D750 and less than D810. at least were I live. For type of camera usage, it is also for me betwen D750 (general use) and D810 (landscape high resolution). Even at B&H D750 is 2000$ and K1 1800$, the price is similar. I understand the comparison to D750. I fail to see why they didn't compare it to D810 too.

But one doesn't choose a system for its body, but for the whole echosystem and the lenses.

If I was a wildlife shooter, I'd give a try to one of theses recent 150-600 on a D750. For action/sport/event/wedding I'd give a try to a pair of sigma 24-70 + 70-200 f/2.8, a TC for when I need more reach and again a D750. I don't think that there many cases where more than 24MP is that essential and D810 doesn't justify its price for me. In both cases, the Nikon echosystem would be better, more for the lenses than the body.

Sony A7 would be the way to go for old MF lenses.

For myself my prefered lenses would be FAltds so that would be a K1. And I'd hope they release a 500g FF mirorless K-mount body together with a small enough 20 and 135mm lenses. There a reason I am on K3 now the nice 20 and 135mm are not here yet, neither the small light mirroless FF.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 07-09-2016 at 08:42 AM.
07-09-2016, 08:46 AM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Here K1 is 2000€. D610 can be found for 1100€ and 6D for 1300€, Nikon D750 for 1500€, D810 2500€.

For price alone K1 should be compared not to D610 or 6D but is more expensive than D750 and less than D810. at least were I live. For type of camera usage, it is also for me betwen D750 (general use) and D810 (landscape high resolution). Even at B&H D750 is 2000$ and K1 1800$, the price is similar. I understand the comparison to D750. I fail to see why they didn't compare it to D810 too.

But one doesn't choose a system for its body, but for the whole echosystem and the lenses.

If I was a wildlife shooter, I'd give a try to one of theses recent 150-600 on a D750. For action/sport/event/wedding I'd give a try to a pair of sigma 24-70 + 70-200 f/2.8, a TC for when I need more reach and again a D750. I don't think that there many cases where more than 24MP is that essential and D810 doesn't justify its price for me.

Sony A7 would be the way to go for MF.

For myself my prefered lenses would be FAltds so that would be a K1. And I'd hope they release a 500g FF mirorless K-mount body together with a small enough 20 and 135mm lenses. There a reason I am on K3 now the nice 20 and 135mm are not here yet, neither the small light mirroless FF.
I believe DP Review is owned by Amazon, so lets use Amazon pricing: K-1 $1800, D610 $1500, 6D $1500, and D750 $2000. The hard part about this price comparison is that the cheapest cameras also are the oldest. It is entirely possible that the K-1 will drop to 1500 dollars in the next year, but currently it is selling well enough that it is unlikely to drop in price before the end of the year. Anyway, suffice to say that Pentax is not as good deal in some countries as in others. I think in the US and Japan, it is pretty competitively prices, while in Europe, not so much.

I still am not sure why the differences exist between the bodies.

As to long lenses, I don't use them personally and so that wouldn't swing me either way. If I were a wildlife shooter, unless I had a bunch of money, I would go with D500 over any of these current full frame cameras.
07-09-2016, 09:16 AM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I believe DP Review is owned by Amazon, so lets use Amazon pricing: K-1 $1800, D610 $1500, 6D $1500, and D750 $2000. The hard part about this price comparison is that the cheapest cameras also are the oldest. It is entirely possible that the K-1 will drop to 1500 dollars in the next year, but currently it is selling well enough that it is unlikely to drop in price before the end of the year. Anyway, suffice to say that Pentax is not as good deal in some countries as in others. I think in the US and Japan, it is pretty competitively prices, while in Europe, not so much.
Pentax bodies are always competitive I think. if you want 36MP, K1 is the best deal out there... If you want astrotracer, pixel shift or in body SR. For AF, this is another story but the price is fine.

The issue is Pentax FF not been long enough here to get some cheap body, why not used while I can find a D810 used for 1500€. The third party lens offering is also a bit of a problem because basically recent sigma/tamron lenses offer 95% of what branded lenses provide while the DFA lenses are too recent to be available at interresting price new or used.

So overall if I am to buy now an FF and I want matching lenses, overall Canikon win, not because of themselves but because of the used market and sigma/tamron/tokina...

We can discard the thing saying it is not fair, should not count or whatver. But it is actually the current state of affair. If i am no fanbody or stakeholder, having access to many cheap lenses from sigma/tamron is a real argument. Having better AF is real argument too. Pixel shift while pleasant is honesty not as usefull because too specialized and it can be argued that the 50 iso mode of D810 is at least as usefull.

In the meantime, there still at least 2-3 more years for used market of K1/DFA lenses to give interresting prices and Pentax to grow the line up, in particular for more affordables FF lenses and primes. I bet we may not really get sigma/tamron third party nice pricing scheme and performance before a long time if ever.

07-09-2016, 09:51 AM   #215
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Well, Pentax K-1 has been very successful despite the bad review released by DPReview. That is expected anyway. I had predicted K-1 will only get silver award, as their first impression not very good. I remembered Barney mentioned that K-1 is not comparable to Nikon D810 at any respects. DPReview has been deliberately belittling K-1, as if they are trying to protect the market. Well, Pentax K-1 is only 1700 USD, and that is darn good price considering its rich features. I can just imagine if Pentax K-1 get Gold Award, this will be a shame for Nikon D810, and DPReview didn't want it to happen. True AF system is Pentax's biggest shortcoming, but it can't be developed over night.
I think we can forget their review, and move on with Ricoh's plan to build Pentax own character. I want to see them progressing the lenses. We know this has been critized by many. Pentax need F/4 lenses, and many primes with F/1.4, F/1.8, F/2.8.
07-09-2016, 01:45 PM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by afan137 Quote
Well, Pentax K-1 has been very successful despite the bad review released by DPReview. That is expected anyway. I had predicted K-1 will only get silver award, as their first impression not very good. I remembered Barney mentioned that K-1 is not comparable to Nikon D810 at any respects. DPReview has been deliberately belittling K-1, as if they are trying to protect the market. Well, Pentax K-1 is only 1700 USD, and that is darn good price considering its rich features. I can just imagine if Pentax K-1 get Gold Award, this will be a shame for Nikon D810, and DPReview didn't want it to happen. True AF system is Pentax's biggest shortcoming, but it can't be developed over night.
I think we can forget their review, and move on with Ricoh's plan to build Pentax own character. I want to see them progressing the lenses. We know this has been critized by many. Pentax need F/4 lenses, and many primes with F/1.4, F/1.8, F/2.8.
Not getting gold award because of AF performance is honestly completely justfied. AF is key to modern DSLR. As long as hopefully other camera with not so good AF don't get gold award.

What is really the problem in their review is that it is ridiculous. They describe something that simply do not work properly. On K3 at least and I think K1 improved, the AF is fine without any particular effort in most occasion. It is only if your are dealing with advanced action/sport situation where while ok the AF could do better.

They could have said that. That K1 work well for most day to day use but fall behind in difficult situations. That would be a fair assesment.
07-09-2016, 02:12 PM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Here K1 is 2000€. D610 can be found for 1100€ and 6D for 1300€, Nikon D750 for 1500€, D810 2500€.

For price alone K1 should be compared not to D610 or 6D but is more expensive than D750 and less than D810. at least were I live. For type of camera usage, it is also for me betwen D750 (general use) and D810 (landscape high resolution). Even at B&H D750 is 2000$ and K1 1800$, the price is similar. I understand the comparison to D750. I fail to see why they didn't compare it to D810 too.

But one doesn't choose a system for its body, but for the whole echosystem and the lenses.

If I was a wildlife shooter, I'd give a try to one of theses recent 150-600 on a D750. For action/sport/event/wedding I'd give a try to a pair of sigma 24-70 + 70-200 f/2.8, a TC for when I need more reach and again a D750. I don't think that there many cases where more than 24MP is that essential and D810 doesn't justify its price for me. In both cases, the Nikon echosystem would be better, more for the lenses than the body.

Sony A7 would be the way to go for old MF lenses.

For myself my prefered lenses would be FAltds so that would be a K1. And I'd hope they release a 500g FF mirorless K-mount body together with a small enough 20 and 135mm lenses. There a reason I am on K3 now the nice 20 and 135mm are not here yet, neither the small light mirroless FF.

Yes pricing in different markets seems very inconsistent. In the UK, looking at a leading Po Pentax dealer, SRS, they have (body only)
D610 £999 D750 £1389 D810 £2145
6D £1119
K1 £1599 - nowhere near 2x the 610 close to the D750 and 70% of the price of a D810
07-09-2016, 02:54 PM - 1 Like   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apapukas Quote
It is confusing why PF and DPReview came to such different conclusions regarding AF performance.

PF gave it 9/10 (very good), while DPReview concluded that the AF is poor (4-5?).

Maybe more K1 users can comment about their experience
If you're familiar with DPR's track record it's not confusing at all.
My perception is that if a Pentax model, by the standards of the general photographic community, is really good, then DPR might rate it as "sucks". If, by the standards of the general photographic community, it is outstanding to near perfect DPR might rate it as "doesn't suck".

As to more K-1 users commenting about their (positive) Pentax experiences on DPR; that is, potentially, a one way ticket to Bannedville.


Last edited by Parallax; 07-09-2016 at 03:30 PM.
07-09-2016, 03:31 PM   #219
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I have not used the K-1 (yet). However, I refuse to believe that there exist an AF system today that gives up to 85% failure without equipment or user fault. Even in the 80's AF systems were much better than that.....
07-09-2016, 09:54 PM - 2 Likes   #220
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Sick and tired of being told that Pentax AF can't do action.


After the trail running event I did today, I - an ordinary, hobbyist photographer without skills - got out what should be a miserable combination.


Not a K-1, but an old, slow K-x. And used not a 70-200 SDM, but the unfashionable screwdrive 55-300 with long throw.


Single point, AF-C, in the Z-axis as well, carelessly shot, no tripod- if I can do this anyone can, and if DPR's camera experts can't reflect real world usage, they need to find another job.


I have happily shot runners, cyclists, football players, wildlife, and even put myself at the end of a runway and shot jet aircraft at landing speeds. There's a Russian pro who used a K-30 and screwdrive tele to cover motorbike races.






























Last edited by clackers; 07-10-2016 at 05:29 AM.
07-09-2016, 11:08 PM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by afan137 Quote
Well, Pentax K-1 has been very successful despite the bad review released by DPReview. That is expected anyway. I had predicted K-1 will only get silver award, as their first impression not very good. I remembered Barney mentioned that K-1 is not comparable to Nikon D810 at any respects. DPReview has been deliberately belittling K-1, as if they are trying to protect the market.
AMAZON sells everything and I don't think they don't want to sell K-1 and Pentax lenses.
07-09-2016, 11:16 PM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
AMAZON sells everything and I don't think they don't want to sell K-1 and Pentax lenses.
K-1sold by Amazon


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01BL6L3G6/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468131...YTL
07-09-2016, 11:35 PM   #223
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What do you mean?

https://www.amazon.com/Pentax-K-1-Full-Frame-Camera/dp/B01BL6L3G6/ref=sr_1_1...rds=Pentax+K-1
07-09-2016, 11:49 PM   #224
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
if I can do this anyone can, and if DPR's camera experts can't reflect real world usage, they need to find another job
But..but..they have a PhD on their team.
Your results must have merely been some random freakish accident.
07-09-2016, 11:51 PM   #225
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You said they don't want to sell the K-1, but they do.
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