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07-09-2016, 11:54 PM   #226
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no he didn't, read again. its just semantics

07-09-2016, 11:57 PM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
no he didn't, read again. its just semantics
Ah my bad.
07-10-2016, 12:52 AM   #228
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Let's not mix up things. For amazon, the main company they don't care much if you buy Nikon or Pentax, at long as you do on Amazon. Even more if you want a Pentax, you are more likely to buy it on Amazon because it is much less available in brick and motar shops. Amazaon made an empire by providing much more variety in products that you would not otherwise be able to find. For them it is better if there 10 small Pentax than 1 big Nikon.

They go to the extreme, you can even publish your own book on amazon and sell it. You can sell on amazon website whatever product you want, sell cheaper than amazon and they don't care. Even you or me can sell their used product if they want.

For the very small company that is dpreview, honestly it may not really matter in the grand scheme of things if it is Pentax that is worldwide leader or Canon as long as there many click on ads and people continue to go on their website to discuss photography and gear. In fact Pentax is nice for Dpreview because while there far less people interrested in Pentax than Canikon, people interrested in Pentax are more likely to want to check some information only than for Canikon where there can just ask their local dealer, photography group or find a book about the subject.

Now for the actual employees of dpreview that have their own taste and preference and for the Canikon representative that buy space in dpreview for ads and maybe send all the gear to test and from time to time give invitation to photography events, that's a different matter.

If you notice different websites not affiated to Pentax at all have very different view, like imaging resources...

It is not the big Amazon versus the small Pentax (and honestly Ricoh overall is not small), it is not even the interrest of dpreview the small company, it is about of a few few employees of dpreview and their personal preferences.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 07-10-2016 at 01:01 AM.
07-10-2016, 02:44 AM   #229
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Rishi from DP Review did post here one time and based on his post, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think that he is trying hard to evaluate cameras and that at this point the review is mostly accurate. I don't think their auto focus testing reflects real world shooting experience, but a silver is a good score (although I probably would still choose a K-1 over a D610 based on my style of shooting).

I don't really believe that Amazon cares which camera/lenses sell more. They are just a middle-man and they make money whatever they sell, just so long as the purchaser is happy. I would say that if you are used to a particular brand more -- whichever it is -- you are going to have a tendency to grade that brand better, particularly on ease of use. I do think Pentaxians have learned over time to deal with Pentax's not always stellar auto focus and to expect someone else to pick up a Pentax camera and get awesome shots with it when they are used to shooting with a D750 is probably a stretch.

07-10-2016, 03:08 AM   #230
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Rishi is going too far defending his tests. Trouble is, his tests don't score too high on the meaningful, accurate, consistent aspects. Then, there are claims which are simply false (e.g. different AF point being used, or that Nikons always nails the shot). This can only deepen the distrust in DPReview, which is a pity.
OTOH, some Pentaxians weren't too scientific in their criticism, either.

I don't believe in any commercial interests which would affect the tests; nor in any intentional bias. Sure, there's the typical mindset of Pentax not being "up there" - and the confirmation bias that follows; and I bet they really like to make snarky comments but don't dare to do it for the more popular brands.
07-10-2016, 03:25 AM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Rishi is going too far defending his tests. Trouble is, his tests don't score too high on the meaningful, accurate, consistent aspects. Then, there are claims which are simply false (e.g. different AF point being used, or that Nikons always nails the shot). This can only deepen the distrust in DPReview, which is a pity.
OTOH, some Pentaxians weren't too scientific in their criticism, either.
Yep, and he really ought to stop brandishing the 'PhD' title. Looks like he left the academic rigour out on the pavement when he walked in to take that job.

Whatever his field, his supervisor would be kicking his hindquarters if he proposed a test as sloppy as his - no reproducibility, no controls, invalid comparisons.

His excuses in the closed 'Biz-engineer wuz Banned' thread smack of poor judgement. If a postgraduate knows in advance a particular procedure is too hard to get right, they need to redesign, or simply not attempt it if they don't have the talent.
07-10-2016, 03:33 AM   #232
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Firstly, I think a lot of the reviewers both on DPR and elsewhere are not used to working with Pentax equipment, and do not know how to get the best out of it. This leads to clumsy usage and inaccurate conclusions. I think there is some confirmation bias going on too. The AF test is almost laughable. Seriously?, some guy on a wobbly bike, and put the camera on a tripod so the point in focus travels outside at available focus points. There is no repeatability, no standardisation, I'm no scientist, but I would have thought someone who purports to having a PhD would be very keen to protect his reputation for accuracy and rigor. No wonder he is reacting the way he is, being rude and insulting to people who question his methodology. I note in one thread he is asking one of the subscribers if he thinks thet DFA 70-200 might be the problem, maybe it focuses too slowly. Surely that would be established before the test results are published. This lack of rigor is the main reason for the reaction from readers of the review. DPR have left themselves open to critisism once again. they have dealt their reputation for objective reporting yet another blow. (We all remember how they totally botched their PS review and had to retract it.)
07-10-2016, 03:39 AM - 1 Like   #233
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Since Adam closed that other thread perhaps we shouldn't continue here... I'll just say that I understand how biz-engineer thought Rishi's answer reeked of confirmation bias.

07-10-2016, 04:56 AM   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
His excuses in the closed 'Biz-engineer wuz Banned' thread smack of poor judgement. If a postgraduate knows in advance a particular procedure is too hard to get right, they need to redesign, or simply not attempt it if they don't have the talent.
I agree for redesign. I disagree on not trying. There no way to make progress if you don't try.

As for scientific review of the gear, it is not necessarilly what is required and wanted by readers. Many just want to know if a given piece of gear is a good buy or not and fit their need or not.

The AF review of the K1 is obviously wrong and that's a problem, more so for Pentax than for dpreview but for the naive reader coming to dpreview to choose his camera this is not like he would end up getting a bad camera... such thing doesn't really exist.
07-10-2016, 05:24 AM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
...for the naive reader coming to dpreview to choose his camera....
Exactly...

The "review" is also prominently featured within the K-1 offering at Amazon.

Check it out...

https://www.amazon.com/Pentax-K-1-Full-Frame-Camera/dp/B01BL6L3G6/ref=sr_1_1...rds=pentax+k-1

From the review...

"Scoring is relative only to the other products in the same category."
"DPReview is the world’s most popular dedicated enthusiast digital photography website. Since 1998 its mission has remained unchanged: to deliver the best reviews of cameras and lenses anywhere on the Internet, and help you find the right gear for your needs."

Cheers... M
07-10-2016, 05:30 AM - 1 Like   #236
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Meanwhile the comments on the K-1 article are well over 2000 even with dpreview removing posts. I think they also gave this pkdanny guy a ban.
07-10-2016, 05:46 AM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Since Adam closed that other thread perhaps we shouldn't continue here...
I agree.
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