K-1 wireless flash

rawr · 07-11-2016, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

I have tried different settings but it still gives me wrong output when in FF mode.

Interesting. I just tested this and flash output looked good in FF mode, histogram looked OK. I could be wrong, but output seemed to work fine.

Settings were:

Metz 52-AF1 (firmware v1.3)
- Menu > Mode > P-TTL
- Menu > Option > Zoom Size: Off
- Menu > Option > Zoom Mode: Standard

K-1:
- X mode
- Flash On
- FF mode

Lens:
- Tamron 28-75

One initial glitch I had, however, was that when I first attached the flash, the flash failed to auto-zoom as I zoomed the lens in and out, even though the flash display showed that the flash was still measuring distance. The flash output zoom was stuck at 28mm.

I removed the diffuser I had on the flash head, and found that the little reflector card in the Metz had been protruding about 1 cm within the diffuser, causing the flash to think that the wide-angle diffuser was in use. When I pushed the reflector card properly back into the 'not-in-use' position, the flash zoom worked again. Just something to be aware of.

Unregistered User · 07-11-2016, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Interesting. I just tested this and flash output looked good in FF mode, histogram looked OK. I could be wrong, but output seemed to work fine.

Settings were:

Metz 52-AF1 (firmware v1.3)
- Menu > Mode > P-TTL
- Menu > Option > Zoom Size: Off
- Menu > Option > Zoom Mode: Standard

K-1:
- X mode
- Flash On
- FF mode

Lens:
- Tamron 28-75

One initial glitch I had, however, was that when I first attached the flash, the flash failed to auto-zoom as I zoomed the lens in and out, even though the flash display showed that the flash was still measuring distance. The flash output zoom was stuck at 28mm.

I removed the diffuser I had on the flash head, and found that the little reflector card in the Metz had been protruding about 1 cm within the diffuser, causing the flash to think that the wide-angle diffuser was in use. When I pushed the reflector card properly back into the 'not-in-use' position, the flash zoom worked again. Just something to be aware of.

It looks ok at first but if I stop down it gets darker and flash comp does not do anything. In Crop all these settings do give me a change in flash output. Switching between crop and FF changes the zoom value on the flash. Not tried the X mode.

**acoufap** · 07-12-2016, 09:55 AM

Until now I didn't use my Metz 52-AF1 with the K-1. But you made me curious.

So I just did some simple tests in K1-FF mode, flash attached to the camera.

Camera settings:

- program AV
- flash compensation 0, -1, -2 (one after the other)

Flash settings (firmware 1.3):

- P-TTL mode
- no flash compensation

Results of the tests using a prime and a zoom lens:

DFA100WR

All three exposures are pretty good and brightness of the images reduced with every ev compensation step.

DA18-135WR
Sorry, until now I don't own another autofocus zoom lens. As I said I used K1 FF-mode and presume that electronics of DA and DFA lenses work the same.

The tests showed the same perfect results like using the DFA100WR ... ok ... difference is the dark image circle (DA format on the FF sensor)

Changing focal length resulted in automatic zooming of the flash and the flash's display showed the correct focal length in its boundaries 24-105 mm - works as expected.

I often read complaining voices about Metz flashes on pentax forum. Maybe there are configurations depending on lenses that don't work fine or other Metz models suffer. But until now I cannot confirm.

The Metz 52-AF1 seems to work very well on my K-1!

Class A · 07-13-2016, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Carcas

My concern is that I don´t see on the k-1 menu how to configure remote wireless flash.

If you don't need on-camera flash then using an on-camera flash just as a controller is a bit unwieldy.

An alternative is to use a flash trigger such as the Cactus V6 or the Cactus V6II (similar to the V6 but adds HSS) with which you can remotely control power levels and zoom settings of up to four groups of flashes. Control is manual but many see that as an advantage compared to automatic P-TTL exposure.

bdery · 07-13-2016, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

Also good to know is that the P-TTL only works in Crop mode for the time beeing. They say Metz is working on the problem... I hope so.

Mine works.

What's the source saying Metz is working on something? Just curious.

Originally posted by rawr

P-TTL with the Metz 52 AF-1 works fine in full-frame mode.
I have about 800 52-AF1 and K-1 in FF P-TTL mode flash images to prove it.

Indeed mine works too.

Originally posted by rawr

You just have to make sure the Metz is set for FF using the right Metz shooting format adjustment ('Zoom Size') setting, if memory serves.

Zoom size, by the way, just adjusts the displayed focal length. It does not change the flash operation from my understanding. But then I've never tested it on FF before. I'll run some tests with my DA40 and the Metz.

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

I have tried different settings but it still gives me wrong output when in FF mode.

What do you mean? Inaccurate exposure? Wrong timing? Zoom too narrow?

Unregistered User · 07-13-2016, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by bdery

Mine works.

What's the source saying Metz is working on something? Just curious.

Indeed mine works too.

Zoom size, by the way, just adjusts the displayed focal length. It does not change the flash operation from my understanding. But then I've never tested it on FF before. I'll run some tests with my DA40 and the Metz.

What do you mean? Inaccurate exposure? Wrong timing? Zoom too narrow?

The flash indicates correct zoom and it fires but no TTL when in FF mode.

Let's say I put the camera in M. 1/100 ISO100 and f8. The image is at a certain exposure with the flash. Changing the aperture to 5.6 and it gets brighter, to f/11 it gets darker. I.e the flash does not compensate, it just fires the same amount of light to the scene. If I put the camera in crop mode on the other hand. The flash compensates so that each exposure have the same brightness.

About the statement that Metz is working on it, Swedish distributor said so. Problem was that they, at the time, did not have a K-1 to test on or so he said.

I just checked one tiny thing... I do not have the 52, I have the 50...

rawr · 07-13-2016, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

I just checked one tiny thing... I do not have the 52, I have the 50...

That's a BIG difference. Different flash, menus, firmware etc.

Unregistered User · 07-13-2016, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by rawr

That's a BIG difference. Different flash, menus, firmware etc.

I know...

**acoufap** · 07-14-2016, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Class A

If you don't need on-camera flash then using an on-camera flash just as a controller is a bit unwieldy.

An alternative is to use a flash trigger such as the Cactus V6 or the Cactus V6II (similar to the V6 but adds HSS) with which you can remotely control power levels and zoom settings of up to four groups of flashes. Control is manual but many see that as an advantage compared to automatic P-TTL exposure.

Unfortunately the Pentax Version of the Metz 52 AF-1 doesn't work on Cactus V6. You can read it here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/60-accessory-memory-articles/261793-cactu...ml#post2812822 and I tried it by myself without success.

Class A · 07-14-2016, 09:59 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by acoufap

Unfortunately the Pentax Version of the Metz 52 AF-1 doesn't work on Cactus V6.

True, for the OP's flash (Metz 52 AF-1), the V6II would be the only option.

According to Cactus, the Metz 52 AF-1 should be supported by a generic Pentax profile on the V6II.

**acoufap** · 07-16-2016, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Class A

True, for the OP's flash (Metz 52 AF-1), the V6II would be the only option.

According to Cactus, the Metz 52 AF-1 should be supported by a generic Pentax profile on the V6II.

Thanks for this info! When the V6 II is availlable here in Germany I'll consider to buy one in addition to my two V6 units.

Class A · 07-16-2016, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by acoufap

When the V6 II is availlable here in Germany I'll consider to buy one in addition to my two V6 units.

By that time, hopefully the V6 firmware update that will make it compatible with the V6II will be available as well.

Currently, a V6 only responds to a half-press on the V6II, not to triggering. Note that a V6 will support PowerSync as a receiver, but not HSS. In order to use HSS for flashes other than an RF60, a V6II receiver is required.

**acoufap** · 07-16-2016, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by Class A

By that time, hopefully the V6 firmware update that will make it compatible with the V6II will be available as well.

Currently, a V6 only responds to a half-press on the V6II, not to triggering. Note that a V6 will support PowerSync as a receiver, but not HSS. In order to use HSS for flashes other than an RF60, a V6II receiver is required.

Thanks!

Andrea K · 08-04-2016, 10:35 AM

I have tried the K-1 with FGZ 360 as Controller and two FGZ 540 ..... the controller is heavily present in exposure.... Same problem using a FGZ 540 as controller of another FGZ 540, I tried all the combinations. I adviced the Italian distributors months ago but with no luck, I'm still waiting news from Pentax Europe. You could try this set?
The test is very simple, set all according to user's manual about wireless flash in controller mode, take two pictures of a subject 2 meters far, one with the controller head in normal position and the other with controller head at 90° to the ceiling..

**clackers** · 08-04-2016, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by Andrea K

I have tried the K-1 with FGZ 360 as Controller and two FGZ 540 ..... the controller is heavily present in exposure.... Same problem using a FGZ 540 as controller of another FGZ 540, I tried all the combinations. I adviced the Italian distributors months ago but with no luck, I'm still waiting news from Pentax Europe. You could try this set?
The test is very simple, set all according to user's manual about wireless flash in controller mode, take two pictures of a subject 2 meters far, one with the controller head in normal position and the other with controller head at 90° to the ceiling..

There will always be some contribution, Andrea, because the flash does not switch off immediately after firing, it decays like a light bulb is switched off.

Why not leave the controller head at 90 degrees to the ceiling, and flag it with black cardboard and elastic band? The bounce should trigger the other two flashes anyway.

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07-11-2016, 10:23 PM	#16
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 I have tried different settings but it still gives me wrong output when in FF mode. Interesting. I just tested this and flash output looked good in FF mode, histogram looked OK. I could be wrong, but output seemed to work fine. Settings were: Metz 52-AF1 (firmware v1.3) - Menu > Mode > P-TTL - Menu > Option > Zoom Size: Off - Menu > Option > Zoom Mode: Standard K-1: - X mode - Flash On - FF mode Lens: - Tamron 28-75 One initial glitch I had, however, was that when I first attached the flash, the flash failed to auto-zoom as I zoomed the lens in and out, even though the flash display showed that the flash was still measuring distance. The flash output zoom was stuck at 28mm. I removed the diffuser I had on the flash head, and found that the little reflector card in the Metz had been protruding about 1 cm within the diffuser, causing the flash to think that the wide-angle diffuser was in use. When I pushed the reflector card properly back into the 'not-in-use' position, the flash zoom worked again. Just something to be aware of.

07-11-2016, 11:37 PM	#17
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by rawr Interesting. I just tested this and flash output looked good in FF mode, histogram looked OK. I could be wrong, but output seemed to work fine. Settings were: Metz 52-AF1 (firmware v1.3) - Menu > Mode > P-TTL - Menu > Option > Zoom Size: Off - Menu > Option > Zoom Mode: Standard K-1: - X mode - Flash On - FF mode Lens: - Tamron 28-75 One initial glitch I had, however, was that when I first attached the flash, the flash failed to auto-zoom as I zoomed the lens in and out, even though the flash display showed that the flash was still measuring distance. The flash output zoom was stuck at 28mm. I removed the diffuser I had on the flash head, and found that the little reflector card in the Metz had been protruding about 1 cm within the diffuser, causing the flash to think that the wide-angle diffuser was in use. When I pushed the reflector card properly back into the 'not-in-use' position, the flash zoom worked again. Just something to be aware of. It looks ok at first but if I stop down it gets darker and flash comp does not do anything. In Crop all these settings do give me a change in flash output. Switching between crop and FF changes the zoom value on the flash. Not tried the X mode.

07-12-2016, 09:55 AM	#18
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,187	Until now I didn't use my Metz 52-AF1 with the K-1. But you made me curious. So I just did some simple tests in K1-FF mode, flash attached to the camera. Camera settings: - program AV - flash compensation 0, -1, -2 (one after the other) Flash settings (firmware 1.3): - P-TTL mode - no flash compensation Results of the tests using a prime and a zoom lens: DFA100WR All three exposures are pretty good and brightness of the images reduced with every ev compensation step. DA18-135WR Sorry, until now I don't own another autofocus zoom lens. As I said I used K1 FF-mode and presume that electronics of DA and DFA lenses work the same. The tests showed the same perfect results like using the DFA100WR ... ok ... difference is the dark image circle (DA format on the FF sensor) Changing focal length resulted in automatic zooming of the flash and the flash's display showed the correct focal length in its boundaries 24-105 mm - works as expected. I often read complaining voices about Metz flashes on pentax forum. Maybe there are configurations depending on lenses that don't work fine or other Metz models suffer. But until now I cannot confirm. The Metz 52-AF1 seems to work very well on my K-1!

07-13-2016, 02:02 AM	#19
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Carcas My concern is that I don´t see on the k-1 menu how to configure remote wireless flash. If you don't need on-camera flash then using an on-camera flash just as a controller is a bit unwieldy. An alternative is to use a flash trigger such as the Cactus V6 or the Cactus V6II (similar to the V6 but adds HSS) with which you can remotely control power levels and zoom settings of up to four groups of flashes. Control is manual but many see that as an advantage compared to automatic P-TTL exposure.

07-13-2016, 10:00 AM	#20
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 Also good to know is that the P-TTL only works in Crop mode for the time beeing. They say Metz is working on the problem... I hope so. Mine works. What's the source saying Metz is working on something? Just curious. Originally posted by rawr P-TTL with the Metz 52 AF-1 works fine in full-frame mode. I have about 800 52-AF1 and K-1 in FF P-TTL mode flash images to prove it. Indeed mine works too. Originally posted by rawr You just have to make sure the Metz is set for FF using the right Metz shooting format adjustment ('Zoom Size') setting, if memory serves. Zoom size, by the way, just adjusts the displayed focal length. It does not change the flash operation from my understanding. But then I've never tested it on FF before. I'll run some tests with my DA40 and the Metz. Originally posted by Tjompen1968 I have tried different settings but it still gives me wrong output when in FF mode. What do you mean? Inaccurate exposure? Wrong timing? Zoom too narrow?

07-13-2016, 11:17 AM	#21
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by bdery Mine works. What's the source saying Metz is working on something? Just curious. Indeed mine works too. Zoom size, by the way, just adjusts the displayed focal length. It does not change the flash operation from my understanding. But then I've never tested it on FF before. I'll run some tests with my DA40 and the Metz. What do you mean? Inaccurate exposure? Wrong timing? Zoom too narrow? The flash indicates correct zoom and it fires but no TTL when in FF mode. Let's say I put the camera in M. 1/100 ISO100 and f8. The image is at a certain exposure with the flash. Changing the aperture to 5.6 and it gets brighter, to f/11 it gets darker. I.e the flash does not compensate, it just fires the same amount of light to the scene. If I put the camera in crop mode on the other hand. The flash compensates so that each exposure have the same brightness. About the statement that Metz is working on it, Swedish distributor said so. Problem was that they, at the time, did not have a K-1 to test on or so he said. I just checked one tiny thing... I do not have the 52, I have the 50...

07-13-2016, 02:46 PM	#22
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 I just checked one tiny thing... I do not have the 52, I have the 50... That's a BIG difference. Different flash, menus, firmware etc.

07-13-2016, 04:04 PM	#23
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by rawr That's a BIG difference. Different flash, menus, firmware etc. I know...

07-14-2016, 08:56 AM	#24
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,187	Originally posted by Class A If you don't need on-camera flash then using an on-camera flash just as a controller is a bit unwieldy. An alternative is to use a flash trigger such as the Cactus V6 or the Cactus V6II (similar to the V6 but adds HSS) with which you can remotely control power levels and zoom settings of up to four groups of flashes. Control is manual but many see that as an advantage compared to automatic P-TTL exposure. Unfortunately the Pentax Version of the Metz 52 AF-1 doesn't work on Cactus V6. You can read it here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/60-accessory-memory-articles/261793-cactu...ml#post2812822 and I tried it by myself without success.

07-14-2016, 09:59 PM - 1 Like	#25
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by acoufap Unfortunately the Pentax Version of the Metz 52 AF-1 doesn't work on Cactus V6. True, for the OP's flash (Metz 52 AF-1), the V6II would be the only option. According to Cactus, the Metz 52 AF-1 should be supported by a generic Pentax profile on the V6II.

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07-16-2016, 01:53 AM	#26
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,187	Originally posted by Class A True, for the OP's flash (Metz 52 AF-1), the V6II would be the only option. According to Cactus, the Metz 52 AF-1 should be supported by a generic Pentax profile on the V6II. Thanks for this info! When the V6 II is availlable here in Germany I'll consider to buy one in addition to my two V6 units.

07-16-2016, 08:04 AM	#27
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by acoufap When the V6 II is availlable here in Germany I'll consider to buy one in addition to my two V6 units. By that time, hopefully the V6 firmware update that will make it compatible with the V6II will be available as well. Currently, a V6 only responds to a half-press on the V6II, not to triggering. Note that a V6 will support PowerSync as a receiver, but not HSS. In order to use HSS for flashes other than an RF60, a V6II receiver is required.

07-16-2016, 08:35 AM	#28
acoufap Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Munich, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,187	Originally posted by Class A By that time, hopefully the V6 firmware update that will make it compatible with the V6II will be available as well. Currently, a V6 only responds to a half-press on the V6II, not to triggering. Note that a V6 will support PowerSync as a receiver, but not HSS. In order to use HSS for flashes other than an RF60, a V6II receiver is required. Thanks!

08-04-2016, 10:35 AM	#29
Andrea K Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Rome, Italy Posts: 822	I have tried the K-1 with FGZ 360 as Controller and two FGZ 540 ..... the controller is heavily present in exposure.... Same problem using a FGZ 540 as controller of another FGZ 540, I tried all the combinations. I adviced the Italian distributors months ago but with no luck, I'm still waiting news from Pentax Europe. You could try this set? The test is very simple, set all according to user's manual about wireless flash in controller mode, take two pictures of a subject 2 meters far, one with the controller head in normal position and the other with controller head at 90° to the ceiling..

08-04-2016, 06:19 PM	#30
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Andrea K I have tried the K-1 with FGZ 360 as Controller and two FGZ 540 ..... the controller is heavily present in exposure.... Same problem using a FGZ 540 as controller of another FGZ 540, I tried all the combinations. I adviced the Italian distributors months ago but with no luck, I'm still waiting news from Pentax Europe. You could try this set? The test is very simple, set all according to user's manual about wireless flash in controller mode, take two pictures of a subject 2 meters far, one with the controller head in normal position and the other with controller head at 90° to the ceiling.. There will always be some contribution, Andrea, because the flash does not switch off immediately after firing, it decays like a light bulb is switched off. Why not leave the controller head at 90 degrees to the ceiling, and flag it with black cardboard and elastic band? The bounce should trigger the other two flashes anyway.