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07-31-2016, 12:20 PM   #1
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K5IIs Vs K-1 crop : anyone tried ?

no side by side test with some pictures ?

07-31-2016, 12:25 PM   #2
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I think such a comparison is moot as they should be neck-and-neck, with perhaps a marginally less noise and more color depth in the K-1 files, and slightly more resolution in the K-5 IIs files (the K-1 crops to 15M).

The K-1 does have the AA filter simulator, super resolution, 5-axis SR, and updated AF, so those all have the potential to improve results in practice.

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07-31-2016, 12:37 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I think such a comparison is moot as they should be neck-and-neck, with perhaps a marginally less noise and more color depth in the K-1 files, and slightly more resolution in the K-5 IIs files (the K-1 crops to 15M).

The K-1 does have the AA filter simulator, super resolution, 5-axis SR, and updated AF, so those all have the potential to improve results in practice.
So really, the K-1 doesn't offer an iso advantage over the K-30.

But at the same time, people say that its clean up to iso 6400

which one is it?
07-31-2016, 12:37 PM - 1 Like   #4
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I'm getting a K-1 next week, and I already have the K-5iis, so I'll do a test for you and post the results. Anything in particular you want to see?

---------- Post added 07-31-16 at 07:40 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
So really, the K-1 doesn't offer an iso advantage over the K-30.

But at the same time, people say that its clean up to iso 6400

which one is it?
Yeah I think this is a big miscommunication. My expectation is per-pixel noise is not much improved, but with the larger MP sensor, the same scene has more pixels for the processing software to filter against. I'll test this too.

07-31-2016, 12:41 PM   #5
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Cool Jeff 😉
Just pictures in daylight, static subjects, something very simple 😊
07-31-2016, 12:43 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
So really, the K-1 doesn't offer an iso advantage over the K-30.

But at the same time, people say that its clean up to iso 6400

which one is it?
Nose levels are way better if you don't crop, similar but slightly lower at the pixel level (more so compared to the K-30, which only shoots 12 bit raw).

I wrote an article comparing the D800 to the K-50 to the Q. These same findings would apply to the K-1 vs K-30.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/55-photography-articles/228535-how-why-se...s-compact.html

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07-31-2016, 01:52 PM - 1 Like   #7
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No tests here.....and I am no scientific shooter...but I have owned the K5 -K5IIs...and now the K1.
I'll give you my thoughts from my experience with all three ...which is extensive .

The K5IIs was a huge improvement over my K5....both in IQ and in shooting abilities...mostly the AF was better and the high ISO shooting was greatly improved. I was very satisfied with this camera until it fell off the shelf and was badly damaged. At that point I opted to go for the K1.

I shoot mainly wildlife nowadays and almost exclusively in the K1 Crop Mode....so to me it is very close to what I got out of the K5IIs. Maybe a little better color, better high ISO results by a stop...sometimes two.......but the main advantage is the greatly improved AF...and the much better SR.

Old story I have told many times here, but maybe you haven't heard it, so here goes....

I have shot for over 10 years using a 50-500 Bigma...the old model and now the newer HSM OS model. With either one the Bigma has hunted with AF like a blind hound. The lower the light the worse the hunting.It has driven me insane(er) so many times I could not possibly count the shots Ihave missed while the Bigma hunts back and forth to lock focus. You know, wildlife won't hang around for you to get a decent focus, so you are limited to those times you can get lucky.

Here comes the K1...I unbox it, have a battery ready to go and the Bigma ready to mount. As usual, there is always a bird or squirrel handy outside my office windows.......let's see what happens? I'll be damn! Focus was instant and it locked on the subject even though it was in heavy brush! This is amazing...must be a fluke or I just got lucky? Nope, it does it every time and has since that moment...good light or bad it finds the target and locks on it ...fast!
You have no idea what a difference this has made in my shooting pleasure......and I curse 80% less than I did before the K1! There are so many great features on the K1...and many I may never use but it's nice to know they are there anyhow. But.....if none were there except this magical AF it would be enough to make all the difference if I was buying a new Pentax.

The Bigma is a FF lens.....but I shoot in the Crop Mode with it. It is more like the K5 series in results and I love the way the Crop Mode functions. Simply turn the dial and set to Crop and you're there! You get a nice heavy black outline of the crop frame and when you half press focus is instant and you know exactly what you see is what you get....saves so much time in cropping while processing and gives better results in my experience.
At that half press the frame beeps and goes bright red...you know you have locked focus and can snap your shot.....all almost instantly. Few shots are missed with the K1.

The SR is magical too....you can really drop the speed even with the big slow Bigma and still retain sharpness. It is a lifesaver at times of low light!

Having said all of that, the end result is about the same as with my K5IIs.....a little better, but that depends on the circumstances of the shot more than the sensors I do believe? Of course,with the K1 you will get a ton more decent shots, and with the greatest of ease....that makes a huge difference to me!

Here is a gallery at Flickr with shots from the K5-K5IIs...and K1. They all have EXIF so you can see which is which....take a look and it may answer your basic question. I don't think you should expect amazingly better results with the K1 if you shoot as I do, but you will most definitely get your shots with greater ease and enjoy the shooting to a much greater extent!

I post the good, bad, and ugly here...so no one shot is indicative of the particular camera used.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129469263@N03/albums/72157651162955781

Hope this was of some help to you!
Regards!
Rupert
07-31-2016, 03:00 PM   #8
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As I have been reading about the K1 here over the months, I have been somewhat keeping track of a few items. Noise (in terms of how it would apply to astro images), and the 5 axis stabilization - in particular how it would help the astro tracking with wide angle glass on longer duration images.
  • This recent sensor noise database, has the K5 as one of the best overall sensors (with one of the lowest measured noise levels), with the K1 not far behind. I do believe that with the larger sensor area the K1 should have a 1 stop advantage. I was not really expecting the K5 to do so well overall. The database is at a relatively high ISO. I am wondering about a lower ISO. The K1 should have a lower noise profile.
  • On my K5, the astro tracking when over a minute exposure starts to see some trailing along the extreme edges and corners with wide angle glass. A recent post over in the Astrophotography group showed that even with the 5 axis stabilization - that there is still star trailing in the extreme edges and corners on exposures well over a minute. I was hoping that with the new 5 axis stabilization system, astro tracking would have been a bit better - but at 3 minutes it's not as good as I might have hoped for.
  • The tilting rear screen for me would be a real plus, along with focus peaking.
  • The tethering would also be nice to have - especially if third parties would start supporting it with their existing software products.
  • That said, it all comes at the additional price of the need to go out and get a new wide angle lens - 15-35/f2.8 to replace the 8-16 and 12-24 along with the 18-35/f1.8. The field of view on the 15-35 should replace the cropped wide angle lenses. Between the K1 and the 15-35 lens, the hit amounts to $3300. ... and I am retiring at the beginning of September.
  • My 60-250/f4 would have a decreased reach, but with the removal of the rear baffle, would support the full frame sensor, and 250mm should be OK for me - in terms of landscapes.
  • The K5's dynamic range is tremendous. So, is the K1's from what I have heard, but I have not seen any real posted numbers.
  • I am somewhat concerned with the increased weight of the K1, but it should be OK. The K5 is pretty perfect for me right now. Also, I would need to go get a new L bracket. I can't really work without one.
  • Lens quality - I have a ZK and some converted Contax Zeiss glass - 25, 28 and 85 that will do well. I have some Pentax glass, 31 and 50 that will do well. I also have some Tak glass 50 and 85, that will do well. The 25mm would be my widest glass unless I get the 15-35. That would help starve off the need for the 15-35 for a while.
I am somewhat wondering out loud, if the new crop body (K3 replacement) will have all the K1 features with better noise and image quality performance, than the K5 has. The K3 was substantially nosier that either the K5 or the K1. Right now, I am just sitting enjoying the K5 waiting to see what the new body brings, so as to make a reasonable and hopefully rational decision on what to do next.

Then again, this is all a hobby - no one is beating down the door to buy anything - and I only shoot for what I like, and I am only going to do what I like to do. I already told a customer at work that - NO, I will not work another year to do their project - I am walking away. I do have to admit that walking away from a nice paycheck is something I have never done before.



07-31-2016, 04:09 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote

On my K5, the astro tracking when over a minute exposure starts to see some trailing along the extreme edges and corners with wide angle glass. A recent post over in the Astrophotography group showed that even with the 5 axis stabilization - that there is still star trailing in the extreme edges and corners on exposures well over a minute. I was hoping that with the new 5 axis stabilization system, astro tracking would have been a bit better - but at 3 minutes it's not as good as I might have hoped for.[/LIST]


I believe that the star trails seen at the edges is due to the lens used. The same way clowds seems to stretch at the edges on wide angle lenses. Or coma. If you look at the fish eye shots there is none of this. But I have still not been able to test this due to the fact that there are no stars where I live this time a year...
07-31-2016, 04:29 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
The K5IIs was a huge improvement over my K5....both in IQ and in shooting abilities...mostly the AF was better and the high ISO shooting was greatly improved. I was very satisfied with this camera until it fell off the shelf and was badly damaged. At that point I opted to go for the K1.
How high a shelf do I need? Do I need a concrete or ceramic tile floor - or will I be okay with carpet? Inquiring minds want (need) to know.

I need guidance if the K-1 is going to come my way anytime soon.
07-31-2016, 04:34 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
How high a shelf do I need? Do I need a concrete or ceramic tile floor - or will I be okay with carpet? Inquiring minds want (need) to know.

I need guidance if the K-1 is going to come my way anytime soon.
It is a Pentax. You will need concrete and very high up
07-31-2016, 04:56 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
How high a shelf do I need? Do I need a concrete or ceramic tile floor - or will I be okay with carpet? Inquiring minds want (need) to know.

I need guidance if the K-1 is going to come my way anytime soon.
Glad to help. It only fell about 4 feet...onto carpet...but, it had the Bigma 50-500 mounted and pulled the lens mount out of the camera, I had a heck of a time getting the lens mount off the Bigma, it was stuck. Fortunately the Bigma didn't get any damage at all, just the K5IIs.

I suggest a concrete drive, and faking a heart attack....cheap lens mounted...that way you can get some sympathy which may help get you the K1. Personally, I cried like a little baby for 30 minutes and that's when Mrs Rupert handed me her credit card for the K1. Of course, I am a pro at this after 50 years with Mrs Rupert.
She blamed the accident on my being old and with "infirm mind". She might be right...I forgot to tell her the Bigma was not damaged and so she let me get a new Tamron 70-200 2.8 too! Gotta do some of that Big Brain Thinking, you know!

Regards!
07-31-2016, 09:38 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by AggieDad Quote
How high a shelf do I need? Do I need a concrete or ceramic tile floor - or will I be okay with carpet? Inquiring minds want (need) to know.

I need guidance if the K-1 is going to come my way anytime soon.
I was a very satisfied K-20 user but a 4-1/2 ft drop onto a hardwood floor transformed me into an even more satisfied K-5 user.
08-01-2016, 12:13 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Imp Quote
But at the same time, people say that its clean up to iso 6400

which one is it?
When comparing images at the same size (e.g. 8x10 prints or viewing with a FullHD or 4K monitor) then an image from a full frame sensor will have about a stop of noise advantage over an image from an APS-C sensor (if both are shot with the same f-ratio (e.g. f/2.8)).

When comparing ISO figures between different format size you need to perform a "currency conversion". Divide the FF ISO figure by 2.25 to get the APS-C equivalent ISO figure.

This explains why K-1 ISO figures will always about a stop higher to start with.

When the K-1 is used in crop mode there is no need for "currency conversion" anymore.

N.B., the K-5 (II) sensor is performing pretty close to the theoretical noise minimum. Given that the K-1 sensor does not use BSI, it cannot be significantly better than a K-5 (II) at the pixel level, i.e. in crop mode.
08-01-2016, 09:27 PM - 4 Likes   #15
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Comparison as requested

Made a comparison this morning.

FA77 at f8, ISO200, 1/125, SR off
All lighting is flash.

Crops are pushed 3 stops to show shadow noise.

K5IIs first, K1 next.

Enjoy!

Ken
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