Quality Control issues with K1

stevebrot · 08-03-2016, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by tomO2013

A number of things - AF focus priority should mean that the camera only releases the shutter once it has acquired lock. The camera was on a tripod, and shutter was released with remote timer delay of 3 seconds (to rule out the chances of me introducing shake).

The attached PDF indicated release priority. I did not know if that was user input or drawn from the EXIF. Apparently, it was user input. If it were release priority, that would explain the severe and consistent backfocus.

In any case, I hope your get your K-1 issues figured out.

Steve

tomO2013 · 08-03-2016, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

PDF indicated release priority. I did not know if that was user input or drawn from the EXIF. Apparently, it was user input. If it were release priority, that would explain the severe and consistent backfocus.

Thanks Steve - you are correct, I have the camera setup with AF type 2 , where rear button is focus and shutter button releases the shutter however AF type was set to focus priority which is obviously overridden by the AF type 2 control setup. My bad

.

Nevertheless I have been careful testing to ensure that the camera confirmed focus for each and every focus adjustment before releasing the shutter - in effect focus priority. Regardless the results that I have seen are consistent with real world shooting experiences with that body.

Please note, that Body3 does not focus as erratically and the graphs for body 3 (with similar setup would suggest better focus calibration) although, still very much not perfect.

Rico · 08-03-2016, 12:07 PM

tom02013 have your properly adjusted the diopter to your eye sight?

Sweets · 08-03-2016, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by tomO2013

Hi,

I've waited a good while before posting this as I am currently hoping that Ricoh Canada can help me out.

I am currently on K1 body number 3!

Body #1 : arrived on release day. This body had noticeable dust within the OVF. Yes it is small but when you order a brand new camera I don't feel that it is unreasonable to expect it to be dust free within the viewfinder.
My dealer (McBain camera) was excellent and swapped this for me for a second body.

Body #2: Has had erratic focus issues (see my prior post on FA Limited issues - many lenses had a propensity to severely backfocus - well outside of the available fine tune adjust. I posted graphs and images in another thread of my test setup with focus tune and Lens align iv across a number of test runs. Unfortunately this problem extended to newer more modern lenses such as the DFA * 70-200 etc... DFA 150-450. Live view or manual focus would obviously work fine. However this body looked to consistently back focus across all lenses requiring at a minimum adjustment near the extreme available fine tune adjust. I brought graphs, sample images and camera into McBain who thankfully provided me with a third body to try.

Body #3: Focus adjustment was needed with this body but in general focustune only required -1 across the majority of my lenses. The DFA 150-450 does not focus properly with this body though however looks to focus ok with the K3ii. I took this camera on a wedding shoot recently. Unfortunately the live view caused the mirror mechanism to get 'stuck' in the live view mode half way into mirror lock up i.e. you could see a partial live view but with large black outline of the mirror obscuring half of the rear live view. ( I will provide video/photos of this problem later).
Another issue that I have noticed is that the grip is starting to feel 'looser' in my hand, as in there is some play in the grip itself where it meets the camera body. Currently I am hoping that Ricoh canada are going to help me out here. However I am reluctant to take the K1 out on professional assignment until I get a body that I feel does not exhibit the same issues as I descrived with Body 2 and Body 3. I will update here with more info on how I progress and the level of professional support that Ricoh can provide.

As it stands, I love the K1 file output quality, the feel of the FA limited lenses and the tactile controls of the K1. However I am quite frustrated as I had purchased this camera for part-time professional work and have invested heavily in glass 24-70 2.8, DFA * 70-200, DFA 15-30, 31mm, 43mm and 77mm limited lenses.

I've confirmed on a K3ii that the lenses themselves are fine.

Has anybody else here experienced any of these issues?

"... the grip is starting to feel 'looser' in my hand, as in there is some play in the grip itself where it meets the camera body.".
It seems like i experience the same here.

Waiting for my 28-105 get back from calibration. Maybe after that i sent my K-1 body.

tomO2013 · 08-03-2016, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Sweets

"... the grip is starting to feel 'looser' in my hand, as in there is some play in the grip itself where it meets the camera body.".
It seems like i experience the same here.

Waiting for my 28-105 get back from calibration. Maybe after that i sent my K-1 body.

My buddy is on his second camera body with loose grip syndrome. The 3rd body I've been given has started to feel the same.
It's hard to explain unless you hold one side by side with a new body.

rawr · 08-03-2016, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

The report indicates AF-S release priority

And the Focus Tune chart that has been submitted also says AFA was used.

AFA + release priority = retest needed.

Originally posted by tomO2013

My buddy is on his second camera body with loose grip syndrome. The 3rd body I've been given has started to feel the same.

The grip material is a thin rubberized layer over a magnesium case. It will flex and move as temperature varies. It would be impossible for the grip itself to become loose IMHO, unless the camera has been run over by a steam roller or something.

tomO2013 · 08-03-2016, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by rawr

nd the Focus Tune chart that has been submitted also says AFA was used.

AFA + release priority = retest needed.

Not necessarily true - auto-focus still takes place during release priority mode, the only difference is that you as the photographer have the choice to release the shutter whether focus was acquired or not. On the flip side , if you hold down the AF button until the red reticle confirms focus (light up square and or audible beep) before pressing the shutter amounts to the same thing.

Let me reiterate in a friendly way that I am 100% confident that I confirmed focus for each and every focus adjustment in my test.

Regardless, the body that gave those results (body #2) has gone back and a similarly configured Body #3 is giving results closer to what I would expect. I am happy to retest and resubmit afs focus priority results (I have them at hand already at home) and they show erratic behaviour nonetheless.

As for the grip feeling like it is coming away from the body - I have access to an older canon 1ds mark ii - with over 150,000 clicks, and the grip is as solid as day one. It also has a rubber grip over magnesium alloy. It is this rubber grip that I suspect is coming away from the magnesium alloy that is creating this sensation. Believe me this feels more than just expansion from heat / humidity.

**monochrome** · 08-03-2016, 06:21 PM

All I can say is my K-1 exhibits none of these issues with the three FA Limiteds, D FA105, FA35/2 or FA50. The 31 Limited is adjusted to +2 and the D FA105 to -3. None of the others is adjusted.

I'd LCD to see a serial number sequence of production to determine whether yours were early and mine later - but the serial numbers seem meaningless.

Darcy · 08-03-2016, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by tomO2013

My buddy is on his second camera body with loose grip syndrome. The 3rd body I've been given has started to feel the same.
It's hard to explain unless you hold one side by side with a new body.

I am on my second K-1 because the grip loosened so much. You could literally move the IR sensor in the front and it would click. My new body is beginning to exhibit the same but I am trying not to hold it too tight so it lasts another month.

Just got FocusTune, waiting for a binary update to use. I have been shooting down some apatures to compensate for some focus issues. Hopefully its just a little fine tuning and not what Tom is experiencing.

stevebrot · 08-04-2016, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by tomO2013

I am happy to retest and resubmit afs focus priority results (I have them at hand already at home) and they show erratic behaviour nonetheless.

Given that your body #3 has demonstrated issues with mirror positioning, I suggest that poor PDAF performance should be expected and that further testing is a waste of time. (The image used by the PDAF sensor array is directed by the mirror assembly). I hope Ricoh/Pentax Canada is able to provide you with a replacement that you have no additional problems. BTW, when you do get a replacement body, you may want to try the focus consistency feature of the FocusTune software before attempting calibration. If system (lens + camera) precision is intrinsically poor, there may be little sense to accuracy calibration.

Steve

tomO2013 · 08-04-2016, 02:08 PM

Great suggestions Steve - thank you!

**SonomaDoug** · 08-05-2016, 08:02 AM

Has there been any acknowledgement by Pentax of these teething issues? I'm very reluctant now to buy this camera. Should I wait until next year?

Doug

stevebrot · 08-05-2016, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by SonomaDoug

Has there been any acknowledgement by Pentax of these teething issues? I'm very reluctant now to buy this camera. Should I wait until next year?

Doug

Welcome to the Pentax Forums!

What form might this acknowledgement take?

Steve

HopelessTogger · 08-05-2016, 08:41 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by SonomaDoug

Has there been any acknowledgement by Pentax of these teething issues? I'm very reluctant now to buy this camera. Should I wait until next year?

Doug

I've had a K-1 for three months now and not a single problem. Like anything, any problems will be reported on forums like this and it makes it look widespread. Just get one from a place with a good exchange policy.

Class A · 08-05-2016, 08:44 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by SonomaDoug

I'm very reluctant now to buy this camera.

For every post about a problem you read here, there are hundreds of happy users who won't post that they are not having an issue.

My K-1 is just fine and so are the K-1's of many other shooters. I doubt that there is a high risk of getting a dodgy copy. Pentax had systemic issues in the past (K-7 = green line syndrome, K-5 = string of pearls, or lens release button falling off) but I don't see anything like that for the K-1. I'd buy from a reputable dealer and chances are you'll just be smiling.

P.S.: HopelessTogger beat me to it by a few minutes. I'm not going to delete my post though, now that I've typed it.

08-04-2016, 09:46 AM	#25
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by tomO2013 I am happy to retest and resubmit afs focus priority results (I have them at hand already at home) and they show erratic behaviour nonetheless. Given that your body #3 has demonstrated issues with mirror positioning, I suggest that poor PDAF performance should be expected and that further testing is a waste of time. (The image used by the PDAF sensor array is directed by the mirror assembly). I hope Ricoh/Pentax Canada is able to provide you with a replacement that you have no additional problems. BTW, when you do get a replacement body, you may want to try the focus consistency feature of the FocusTune software before attempting calibration. If system (lens + camera) precision is intrinsically poor, there may be little sense to accuracy calibration. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 08-04-2016 at 09:55 AM.

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08-03-2016, 09:08 AM	#16
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by tomO2013 A number of things - AF focus priority should mean that the camera only releases the shutter once it has acquired lock. The camera was on a tripod, and shutter was released with remote timer delay of 3 seconds (to rule out the chances of me introducing shake). The attached PDF indicated release priority. I did not know if that was user input or drawn from the EXIF. Apparently, it was user input. If it were release priority, that would explain the severe and consistent backfocus. In any case, I hope your get your K-1 issues figured out. Steve

08-03-2016, 09:28 AM	#17
tomO2013 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 155 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot PDF indicated release priority. I did not know if that was user input or drawn from the EXIF. Apparently, it was user input. If it were release priority, that would explain the severe and consistent backfocus. Thanks Steve - you are correct, I have the camera setup with AF type 2 , where rear button is focus and shutter button releases the shutter however AF type was set to focus priority which is obviously overridden by the AF type 2 control setup. My bad . Nevertheless I have been careful testing to ensure that the camera confirmed focus for each and every focus adjustment before releasing the shutter - in effect focus priority. Regardless the results that I have seen are consistent with real world shooting experiences with that body. Please note, that Body3 does not focus as erratically and the graphs for body 3 (with similar setup would suggest better focus calibration) although, still very much not perfect.

08-03-2016, 12:07 PM	#18
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,204	tom02013 have your properly adjusted the diopter to your eye sight?

08-03-2016, 12:17 PM	#19
Sweets Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 33	Originally posted by tomO2013 Hi, I've waited a good while before posting this as I am currently hoping that Ricoh Canada can help me out. I am currently on K1 body number 3! Body #1 : arrived on release day. This body had noticeable dust within the OVF. Yes it is small but when you order a brand new camera I don't feel that it is unreasonable to expect it to be dust free within the viewfinder. My dealer (McBain camera) was excellent and swapped this for me for a second body. Body #2: Has had erratic focus issues (see my prior post on FA Limited issues - many lenses had a propensity to severely backfocus - well outside of the available fine tune adjust. I posted graphs and images in another thread of my test setup with focus tune and Lens align iv across a number of test runs. Unfortunately this problem extended to newer more modern lenses such as the DFA * 70-200 etc... DFA 150-450. Live view or manual focus would obviously work fine. However this body looked to consistently back focus across all lenses requiring at a minimum adjustment near the extreme available fine tune adjust. I brought graphs, sample images and camera into McBain who thankfully provided me with a third body to try. Body #3: Focus adjustment was needed with this body but in general focustune only required -1 across the majority of my lenses. The DFA 150-450 does not focus properly with this body though however looks to focus ok with the K3ii. I took this camera on a wedding shoot recently. Unfortunately the live view caused the mirror mechanism to get 'stuck' in the live view mode half way into mirror lock up i.e. you could see a partial live view but with large black outline of the mirror obscuring half of the rear live view. ( I will provide video/photos of this problem later). Another issue that I have noticed is that the grip is starting to feel 'looser' in my hand, as in there is some play in the grip itself where it meets the camera body. Currently I am hoping that Ricoh canada are going to help me out here. However I am reluctant to take the K1 out on professional assignment until I get a body that I feel does not exhibit the same issues as I descrived with Body 2 and Body 3. I will update here with more info on how I progress and the level of professional support that Ricoh can provide. As it stands, I love the K1 file output quality, the feel of the FA limited lenses and the tactile controls of the K1. However I am quite frustrated as I had purchased this camera for part-time professional work and have invested heavily in glass 24-70 2.8, DFA * 70-200, DFA 15-30, 31mm, 43mm and 77mm limited lenses. I've confirmed on a K3ii that the lenses themselves are fine. Has anybody else here experienced any of these issues? "... the grip is starting to feel 'looser' in my hand, as in there is some play in the grip itself where it meets the camera body.". It seems like i experience the same here. Waiting for my 28-105 get back from calibration. Maybe after that i sent my K-1 body.

08-03-2016, 01:50 PM	#20
tomO2013 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 155 Original Poster	Originally posted by Sweets "... the grip is starting to feel 'looser' in my hand, as in there is some play in the grip itself where it meets the camera body.". It seems like i experience the same here. Waiting for my 28-105 get back from calibration. Maybe after that i sent my K-1 body. My buddy is on his second camera body with loose grip syndrome. The 3rd body I've been given has started to feel the same. It's hard to explain unless you hold one side by side with a new body.

08-03-2016, 03:36 PM	#21
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by stevebrot The report indicates AF-S release priority And the Focus Tune chart that has been submitted also says AFA was used. AFA + release priority = retest needed. Originally posted by tomO2013 My buddy is on his second camera body with loose grip syndrome. The 3rd body I've been given has started to feel the same. The grip material is a thin rubberized layer over a magnesium case. It will flex and move as temperature varies. It would be impossible for the grip itself to become loose IMHO, unless the camera has been run over by a steam roller or something.

08-03-2016, 03:53 PM	#22
tomO2013 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 155 Original Poster	Originally posted by rawr nd the Focus Tune chart that has been submitted also says AFA was used. AFA + release priority = retest needed. Not necessarily true - auto-focus still takes place during release priority mode, the only difference is that you as the photographer have the choice to release the shutter whether focus was acquired or not. On the flip side , if you hold down the AF button until the red reticle confirms focus (light up square and or audible beep) before pressing the shutter amounts to the same thing. Let me reiterate in a friendly way that I am 100% confident that I confirmed focus for each and every focus adjustment in my test. Regardless, the body that gave those results (body #2) has gone back and a similarly configured Body #3 is giving results closer to what I would expect. I am happy to retest and resubmit afs focus priority results (I have them at hand already at home) and they show erratic behaviour nonetheless. As for the grip feeling like it is coming away from the body - I have access to an older canon 1ds mark ii - with over 150,000 clicks, and the grip is as solid as day one. It also has a rubber grip over magnesium alloy. It is this rubber grip that I suspect is coming away from the magnesium alloy that is creating this sensation. Believe me this feels more than just expansion from heat / humidity.

08-03-2016, 06:21 PM	#23
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	All I can say is my K-1 exhibits none of these issues with the three FA Limiteds, D FA105, FA35/2 or FA50. The 31 Limited is adjusted to +2 and the D FA105 to -3. None of the others is adjusted. I'd LCD to see a serial number sequence of production to determine whether yours were early and mine later - but the serial numbers seem meaningless.

08-03-2016, 09:20 PM	#24
Darcy Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Edmonton Photos: Gallery Posts: 63	Originally posted by tomO2013 My buddy is on his second camera body with loose grip syndrome. The 3rd body I've been given has started to feel the same. It's hard to explain unless you hold one side by side with a new body. I am on my second K-1 because the grip loosened so much. You could literally move the IR sensor in the front and it would click. My new body is beginning to exhibit the same but I am trying not to hold it too tight so it lasts another month. Just got FocusTune, waiting for a binary update to use. I have been shooting down some apatures to compensate for some focus issues. Hopefully its just a little fine tuning and not what Tom is experiencing.

08-04-2016, 02:08 PM	#26
tomO2013 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 155 Original Poster	Great suggestions Steve - thank you!

08-05-2016, 08:02 AM	#27
SonomaDoug Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Sebastopol, CA Posts: 9	Has there been any acknowledgement by Pentax of these teething issues? I'm very reluctant now to buy this camera. Should I wait until next year? Doug

08-05-2016, 08:36 AM	#28
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by SonomaDoug Has there been any acknowledgement by Pentax of these teething issues? I'm very reluctant now to buy this camera. Should I wait until next year? Doug Welcome to the Pentax Forums! What form might this acknowledgement take? Steve

08-05-2016, 08:41 AM - 1 Like	#29
HopelessTogger Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Roi-et, Thailand Posts: 773	Originally posted by SonomaDoug Has there been any acknowledgement by Pentax of these teething issues? I'm very reluctant now to buy this camera. Should I wait until next year? Doug I've had a K-1 for three months now and not a single problem. Like anything, any problems will be reported on forums like this and it makes it look widespread. Just get one from a place with a good exchange policy.

08-05-2016, 08:44 AM - 1 Like	#30
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by SonomaDoug I'm very reluctant now to buy this camera. For every post about a problem you read here, there are hundreds of happy users who won't post that they are not having an issue. My K-1 is just fine and so are the K-1's of many other shooters. I doubt that there is a high risk of getting a dodgy copy. Pentax had systemic issues in the past (K-7 = green line syndrome, K-5 = string of pearls, or lens release button falling off) but I don't see anything like that for the K-1. I'd buy from a reputable dealer and chances are you'll just be smiling. P.S.: HopelessTogger beat me to it by a few minutes. I'm not going to delete my post though, now that I've typed it.