Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-05-2016, 09:38 AM   #31
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 155
Original Poster
Well for what it is worth, I am on my third body , darcy is on his second - I personally feel that quality control for the initial production run has been subpar. My latest body number 3 has a higher serial number than the first two so I can only assume it is from a more recent production run.

I feel that there are potentially more people NOT speaking up about the issues mentioned here (loose grip, erratic autofocus, stuck mirror). I was reluctant personally to comment on this originally as often times when one complains about a camera, instead of support there is community backlash as people personalize it and perceive it as an attack on their buying purchases.

I can assure you all here that my motives are to get some attention to the issues I've encountered, encourage others with similar problems to speak out, and hopefully if there is a pattern here help identify serial number ranges that may/may not be affected.

As it stands, based on my own first hand evidence (And body number 3) I would not recommend somebody to pick up a K1 to be used as a primary camera for events - not because the image quality is not great, because it is, but because there looks to be serious quality control issues that could result in missing the shot.

FWIW , the recommendation from Pentax was to install firmware 1.2!

08-05-2016, 10:20 AM   #32
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,840
QuoteOriginally posted by tomO2013 Quote
I feel that there are potentially more people NOT speaking up about the issues mentioned here (loose grip, erratic autofocus, stuck mirror).
Novel conclusion, given the nature of online forums

Of the issues in your short list (you forgot the reason for your original return, dust in viewfinder), loose grip is the only complaint that seems to be a recurring, at least on this site. Interestingly, several of those reports have come from Canada. Stuck mirror is a serious issue and an obvious manufacturing defect, assuming of course that the mirror came that way from the factory. To the best of my knowledge, yours is the sole complaint posted here of that nature. Edit: It was brought to my attention that there have been two other reports of that problem on this site. Erratic AF? That is a tough one, partially because the potential for user misstep is fairly high* and partially because it is difficult to differentiate between lens and camera issues. My experience on this site has been that about 2/3rds of AF complaints are traceable to misconfiguration (including AF turned off), botched fine tuning attempts, and/or unrealistic expectations (camera does not read mind very well and stuff like that). As a result, even a legitimate trend of AF issues is difficult to detect and characterize.


Steve

* A month or so, I was a little disappointed to find that shots spanning a couple of days had mostly missed focus, despite my practice to use center point fixed. Going back to the camera, I found that in my fiddling, I had left AF on SEL and the point was other than center. Dumb me, I did not notice that the red AF point had been changed courtesy of the heel of my thumb.

Last edited by stevebrot; 08-05-2016 at 05:25 PM.
08-05-2016, 10:59 AM   #33
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Roi-et, Thailand
Posts: 773
QuoteOriginally posted by tomO2013 Quote
Well for what it is worth, I am on my third body , darcy is on his second - I personally feel that quality control for the initial production run has been subpar. My latest body number 3 has a higher serial number than the first two so I can only assume it is from a more recent production run.

I feel that there are potentially more people NOT speaking up about the issues mentioned here (loose grip, erratic autofocus, stuck mirror). I was reluctant personally to comment on this originally as often times when one complains about a camera, instead of support there is community backlash as people personalize it and perceive it as an attack on their buying purchases.

I can assure you all here that my motives are to get some attention to the issues I've encountered, encourage others with similar problems to speak out, and hopefully if there is a pattern here help identify serial number ranges that may/may not be affected.

As it stands, based on my own first hand evidence (And body number 3) I would not recommend somebody to pick up a K1 to be used as a primary camera for events - not because the image quality is not great, because it is, but because there looks to be serious quality control issues that could result in missing the shot.

FWIW , the recommendation from Pentax was to install firmware 1.2!
This is the risk with earlier adoption/pre-ordering. I defied my own advice this time . . .

1. Never pre-order;
2. Wait for bugs to be worked out/recalls;
3. Wait for a couple of firmware updates to be issued;
4. Wait for real user reviews;
5. Wait for post-launch price drop.

Touch wood, no probs after three months in the field.
08-05-2016, 12:31 PM   #34
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,049
Long-term Pentax users understand serial numbers aren't necessarily sequential; they sometimes don't indicate order of manufacture. For instance, I know my manufacture date to be March 30, 2016. In the Forum Serial Number Database there are users whose posted manufacture date (from EXIF) is weeks earlier than mine, but they have higher serial numbers and vice versa.

We sort of infer that one assembler incorrectly attached the ribbon connector to the Mode dial, but posts about that problem seem to have died down - maybe they retrained that assembler. My grip covering is rock solid - perhaps they had another one-day issue with an assembler.

What is actually unusual - perhaps unique - about your case is the serially unsatisfactory bodies.


Last edited by monochrome; 08-05-2016 at 12:37 PM.
08-05-2016, 12:57 PM - 1 Like   #35
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2011
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,833
I actually drafted threads like this one several times and deleted them before hitting post. I believe I know how to test a camera and a lens, just as well as before, and I know I would get comments like questioning testing skill and setting when a negative result reported. No complaints, actually I sort of glade to see folks loving Pentax and would like to defense for Pentax. But I really fell k1 has more problem than it should. As said, I tested my 1st k1 using the same way as I tested the other 3 and it was the only one worked great. Among the rest three bodies, one constantly front focus and one always back focus. The other one can't focus right in live view. Believe me, they can not be explained by random testing error.
08-05-2016, 03:26 PM   #36
Tas
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,146
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Stuck mirror is a serious issue and an obvious manufacturing defect, assuming of course that the mirror came that way from the factory. To the best of my knowledge, yours is the sole complaint posted here of that nature.
Hi Steve,

The OP does not have the only case of 'stuck mirror' reported on the forums. I picked up my K-1 on May 10 and 5 days later posted about the problem here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/190-pentax-k-1/319873-post-k-1-bugs-issue...k-ricoh-3.html I posted further entries on the issue in that thread though there wasn't a lot of interest shown by most of those contributing to the thread.

Back on page 1 of this thread I posted a link to a page in that same thread where a third forum member had successfully captured the 'stuck mirror' issue in a photo. The OP confirmed that the photo showed what he'd experienced.

I've asked the question in the K-1 bugs/issues thread about whether others have had the 'stuck mirror' issue, but received no responses. Could there be others with this problem but don't realise it or who are not reporting it on the forum? Yes it is possible but then there's no way of ever knowing the answer to that so I'm staying out of that rabbit hole.

Three 'stuck mirrors' is not a one-off, but it's certainly not a big pool out of those units sold so hopefully it is just an isolated cluster.

Tas
08-05-2016, 05:19 PM   #37
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,840
QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
The OP does not have the only case of 'stuck mirror' reported on the forums. I picked up my K-1 on May 10 and 5 days later posted about the problem here: Post K-1 bugs/issues (feedback for Ricoh) I posted further entries on the issue in that thread though there wasn't a lot of interest shown by most of those contributing to the thread.
Thanks for refreshing my memory regarding your mirror issue. I had forgotten. I was unaware of gryhnd's report, after having dug a bit deeper, it sounds very much like the same thing.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/190-pentax-k-1/319873-post-k-1-bugs-issue...ml#post3670380

You are correct, three reports is good indication of a problem. As you are probably aware, the mirror on the K-1 breaks with the APS-C bodies in using an articulated hinge. This sort of arrangement is common in compact 35mm film SLRs and not something new, exotic, or particularly trouble-prone.* That it should fail is troubling. Hopefully this is a lapse in assembly tolerances and not a design issue.


Steve

* I have several film bodies with this feature, the oldest (Ricoh XR-2s) being very dependable despite having about 40 years on the clock.
08-05-2016, 05:41 PM   #38
Tas
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,146
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Hopefully this is a lapse in assembly tolerances and not a design issue.
This is what I'm hoping for Steve, particularly as the design is not new which was something I didn't know so thanks for that.

The problem has only been annoying so far as my camera has done a couple of solid days in continuous high at motorcycle racing events and it just keeps going. Well, so far anyway. And this is the weird bit, it's obviously got a fault but it doesn't stop it working. Surely this can be taken as a positive?

Hooroo mate,

Tas

08-05-2016, 05:57 PM   #39
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,840
QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
The problem has only been annoying so far...
That is good to hear. If the mirror travel is poorly uncontrolled, there is potential to spawn other issues. The most obvious is that if the mirror does not "home" properly, the shutter release cycle may enter an indeterminate state (become "confused"). Whether this happens depends on how tightly coupled the mirror and shutter cycles are. A second possible side-effect might be AF operation. If the mirror does not seat properly (is not properly aligned) in the down position, the AF sensor array may receive invalid (if any) focus information.


Steve
08-05-2016, 06:40 PM   #40
Tas
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,146
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is good to hear. If the mirror travel is poorly uncontrolled, there is potential to spawn other issues. The most obvious is that if the mirror does not "home" properly, the shutter release cycle may enter an indeterminate state (become "confused"). Whether this happens depends on how tightly coupled the mirror and shutter cycles are. A second possible side-effect might be AF operation. If the mirror does not seat properly (is not properly aligned) in the down position, the AF sensor array may receive invalid (if any) focus information.


Steve
I have had to do some AF fine tuning, but AF seems to be working fine even for action shots, though within the specs of the K-1's AF.

The link I've found is the 'stuck mirror' is not as prevalent in all drive modes other than mirror lock up. I quite often will be in MUP for landscapes/night photography, will recompose using LV and this is usually when I find the mirror still down when I've pressed the LV button. It's not exclusively LV + MUP, but it occurs most frequently when the two are combined (press LV when in MUP drive mode).

Do you have any thoughts on the link between MUP and LV?

Tas
08-05-2016, 07:08 PM   #41
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,840
QuoteOriginally posted by Tas Quote
Do you have any thoughts on the link between MUP and LV?
Ha! Ha!

No clue!


Steve
08-05-2016, 11:46 PM   #42
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 155
Original Poster
This has happened to me also during OVF usage. Enabling and disabling liveview looks to reset this phenomenon 90% of the time.

I've also had this occur and not clear after the first attempt via the 'live view enable/disable' method of clearing the problem i.e. it took a few attempts!

On the one hand I'm frustrated at this, on the other I'm delighted to know that there are others out there with the same problem so it is not an isolated incident and will hopefully get attention from Ricoh.
08-06-2016, 01:02 AM - 3 Likes   #43
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 616
QuoteOriginally posted by tomO2013 Quote
I feel that there are potentially more people NOT speaking up about the issues mentioned here (loose grip, erratic autofocus, stuck mirror). I was reluctant personally to comment on this originally as often times when one complains about a camera, instead of support there is community backlash as people personalize it and perceive it as an attack on their buying purchases.
Exactly. When I complained about AF problems, I got slammed and one guy here even posted photos he'd taken with the K1 of some sports or something, but they were all blurry, but he seemed to think they were great.

It's a tough bunch here at PF and you can't ever speak out of turn about bad experiences without being labeled a troll or incompetent.

I had another issue where I was getting blurred results with sensor stabiliser on and better results with it off. I did extensive testing and just sent the K1 back and got my money back. I didn't bother reporting it on here because it will do no good and fall on very deaf ears.

If all the major review sites are saying that things are a problem then I'm sorry, they probably are.
08-06-2016, 10:14 AM   #44
Forum Member




Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Edmonton
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 63
Ok, I have lens tested all the lenses I use on the K1 and here are the results for AF Adjust (with 1.2 firmware):
-Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG, +5, Almost no shot deviation
-Sigma DF EX Aspherical 28-70mm F2.8, -2 Almost no shot deviation (This was beyond +10 on my first body, but less scientific)
-Tamron SP AF 70-200mm F2.8 Di LD [IF] Macro (A001), -10 with mild shot deviation. *** this is still -120 front focused at -10. assuming the line is linear it would be -13 if Pentax adjusted to 20 like their competition. This is disappointing since it was extremely sharp at 0 with my first K1.
-Sigma EX APO 100-300mm F4 IF, -10 with increasing deviation over Tamron, at -10AF adjust it is still -50 front focused. Assuming linear line it would be in focus at -11.
-Takumar-F 28-80 f3.5/4.5, -2 with no deviation. What is odd on this one is -1,0,+1 AF adjust all yielded -100 front focus and limited deviation.
-smc PENTAX-D FA Macro 100mm F2.8 WR, -5 with massive deviation. see attached. I love this lens when its focused. This explains why I have to stop down so much to get good results.

My conclusion: their AF system needs work. I am wondering if you are getting the same problems with you FA* lenses Tom as I am having with this macro.

It is too bad on the lack of open mindedness. I didn't post anything about my grip problems because I thought it cause nothing but backlash too. Which is also what Tony Thorpe got on his first review of the K-1. Its still a great camera and got a lot going for it. I do feel disappointed having taking the plunge into Pentax and K1 and selling off all my Canon. Not making a decision yet on the move and hoping Ricoh can correct some of these issues.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf FTA_Pen-K1_100mm_AFA_160806_090431.pdf (36.9 KB, 64 views)

Last edited by Darcy; 08-06-2016 at 10:15 AM. Reason: spelling
08-06-2016, 10:26 AM - 1 Like   #45
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Roi-et, Thailand
Posts: 773
QuoteOriginally posted by Darcy Quote
Ok, I have lens tested all the lenses I use on the K1 and here are the results for AF Adjust (with 1.2 firmware):
-Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG, +5, Almost no shot deviation
-Sigma DF EX Aspherical 28-70mm F2.8, -2 Almost no shot deviation (This was beyond +10 on my first body, but less scientific)
-Tamron SP AF 70-200mm F2.8 Di LD [IF] Macro (A001), -10 with mild shot deviation. *** this is still -120 front focused at -10. assuming the line is linear it would be -13 if Pentax adjusted to 20 like their competition. This is disappointing since it was extremely sharp at 0 with my first K1.
-Sigma EX APO 100-300mm F4 IF, -10 with increasing deviation over Tamron, at -10AF adjust it is still -50 front focused. Assuming linear line it would be in focus at -11.
-Takumar-F 28-80 f3.5/4.5, -2 with no deviation. What is odd on this one is -1,0,+1 AF adjust all yielded -100 front focus and limited deviation.
-smc PENTAX-D FA Macro 100mm F2.8 WR, -5 with massive deviation. see attached. I love this lens when its focused. This explains why I have to stop down so much to get good results.

My conclusion: their AF system needs work. I am wondering if you are getting the same problems with you FA* lenses Tom as I am having with this macro.

It is too bad on the lack of open mindedness. I didn't post anything about my grip problems because I thought it cause nothing but backlash too. Which is also what Tony Thorpe got on his first review of the K-1. Its still a great camera and got a lot going for it. I do feel disappointed having taking the plunge into Pentax and K1 and selling off all my Canon. Not making a decision yet on the move and hoping Ricoh can correct some of these issues.
I've suffered backlash here before, really nasty, I think it was over the QC on FA31's (mine was an utter dog of a lens). I stopped posting for so long I forgot my log in details and only started a new account because I got a K-1.

PF needs to stop with the fanboy nonsense and concentrate on making a nice, friendly and helpful community that flags problems and issues up to Pentax/Ricoh (because yes, the AF-C sucks on all their cameras).
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
behaviour, body, camera, dslr, focus, focus mode, full frame, full-frame, issues, k-1, k1, lens, lenses, live, mirror, mode, pentax k-1, problem, quality control, shutter, thread, view
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sigma Art lenses still very poor quality control confirmed beholder3 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 48 04-21-2016 12:47 PM
KEH quality control DeadJohn Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 21 02-19-2016 11:41 PM
Teleconverter Aperture Control Issues tarnag Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 15 02-05-2015 07:30 PM
K-5 Build Quality Control issues? secateurs Pentax K-5 24 01-05-2012 11:29 AM
K10 quality control issues? slip Pentax DSLR Discussion 15 02-08-2007 03:07 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:40 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top