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08-04-2016, 10:21 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Legacy manual-focus lenses on the K-1 really don't make any sense, because you don't have any focusing aids of any consequence.
It depends I guess on your expectations. When I was testing out my K-1 in store with my old M 28 f2.8, and it was nicely beeping away to confirm focus, even the sales guy was impressed at how quick and easy it was to use manual focus lenses on the K-1. Much easier than on his Nikon.

I've also used NEX's for years with manual lenses. It's a tad easier when you have access to focus peaking, but Pentax's basic shooting aids (eg the AF confirm beep, plus the green hexagon, and eg Catch-in-focus) can get the job done. (Pentax also has focus peaking too, of course, in LiveView).

08-04-2016, 11:22 PM   #17
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K-1 -- Australian Football... (Fast moving, just same examples, AF.C, back button controlled, "Hold AF Status" OFF, very dull light)

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08-05-2016, 12:47 AM - 9 Likes   #18
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To all Pentax apologists, just face it, Pentax AF has never been and still isn't up to par.
That doesn't mean the AF is useless, or that Pentax is useless, it means that the AF functions is behind the competitions AF. Thatīs it.
08-05-2016, 01:15 AM - 2 Likes   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
To all Pentax apologists, just face it, Pentax AF has never been and still isn't up to par.
That doesn't mean the AF is useless, or that Pentax is useless, it means that the AF functions is behind the competitions AF. Thatīs it.
This is correct.

08-05-2016, 01:26 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
To all Pentax apologists, just face it, Pentax AF has never been and still isn't up to par.
That doesn't mean the AF is useless, or that Pentax is useless, it means that the AF functions is behind the competitions AF. Thatīs it.
The same could be said about video on Pentax DSLRs. Although I'm not sure it has never been up to par with the competition.
08-05-2016, 01:32 AM   #21
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If Pentax can sort the AF-C/tracking and deliver 4K video in the next generation, I'll definitely upgrade from the original K-1.
08-05-2016, 02:33 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by empyrean Quote
Hi,

I wrote the review. Sorry to hear you think I don't have the requisite skills, but I'll have to respectfully disagree with you. Indeed, I did not just set it to Auto, because as you pointed out, the camera typically chooses whatever is closest to it and given that the riders were approximate 30-150 feet away, it surely wasn't them. I used AF-C with single spot and sometimes Expanded Area AF, both of which provided similar results. Coming from my Canon system, I did indeed consult the manual to use optimum settings as I wanted to understand Pentax's terminology and AF logic; the issue was that the camera simply wasn't fast enough most of the time. I think what you're seeing in my writing is the delicate balance between providing an informative review and boring the reader with an overload of details. The takeaway point was that the tracking is not up to par. As for lifting off the focus button, that's often not an option in fast action photography, because your eye is to the viewfinder and can't see objects outside the frame until it's too late; while I knew where those objects were after a while, the point was that if I didn't, I would have been out of luck. Also, I had focus priority set, while unfortunately, the manual is very unclear in its description of the focus hold function, making it seem as if it's designed to keep focus for an amount of time if you accidentally take your focus point off the subject, not as a counteraction for objects that cross into the frame.
Thank you for a well done review. I do think Pentax does need to release a little more in depth information on using tracking auto focus. I am able to make it work for me, but I am not shooting sports either, just my kids running around. Certainly this is the most common complaint with the K-1.

QuoteOriginally posted by CypherOz Quote
K-1 -- Australian Football... (Fast moving, just same examples, AF.C, back button controlled, "Hold AF Status" OFF, very dull light)

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Sure, but your photos aren't sharp -- not sure if the issue is motion blur or auto focus issues.
08-05-2016, 02:33 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
.
That doesn't mean the AF is useless, or that Pentax is useless,
I'd call an 18% keeper rate "useless", Gimbal - and that's Alex Cooke's claim. 😊


Last edited by clackers; 08-05-2016 at 02:39 AM.
08-05-2016, 03:30 AM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by empyrean Quote
Hi,

I wrote the review.
I think overall the review is fine and we all should keep in mind that the headline "autofocus" has many aspects to it.

Pentax lags behind in % of technical keepers only (!) in AF.C, which is fair to say.
It's very well when shooting static or slower moving objects.
It's very well for shooting a low light.
Then many (most?) people will seldom if ever use AF.C. And as someone who shoots for fun I still do not understand why statistical percentages would have any significant impact on me. 9 out of 10 images I delete because I myself did not perform well.

I once tried a Sony A6000 which proved to get a 0% keeper rate where the K-3 had 40%. And that was just a person walking slowly up to the photographer. But is the utter Sony fail a big deal? No.

So oversimplification of statements does only lower the quality and credibility of everything said.

Then I can assure you that with some practise you can get extremely high keeper rates even with very fast moving objects if you manage to keep the focus points on the target. Since I happen shoot racing horses I think I can say that with some confidence from experience.
The camera is less well in making up for user weaknesses though and anyone liking green mode or spray and pray appoaches (Tony N comes to mind) will not be happy.

Again I think the user review is relatively fair and not something where a reviewer started out with the intention to show how bad something is (it's called "rishiing" these days).

So thank you for the effort.
08-05-2016, 03:55 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I'd call an 18% keeper rate "useless", Gimbal - and that's Alex Cooke's claim. ��
Ok, so by your definition the AF apparently was useless in that situation.
Or do you mean he is a liar.
08-05-2016, 04:08 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I think overall the review is fine and we all should keep in mind that the headline "autofocus" has many aspects to it.

Pentax lags behind in % of technical keepers only (!) in AF.C, which is fair to say.
It's very well when shooting static or slower moving objects.
It's very well for shooting a low light.
Then many (most?) people will seldom if ever use AF.C. And as someone who shoots for fun I still do not understand why statistical percentages would have any significant impact on me. 9 out of 10 images I delete because I myself did not perform well.

I once tried a Sony A6000 which proved to get a 0% keeper rate where the K-3 had 40%. And that was just a person walking slowly up to the photographer. But is the utter Sony fail a big deal? No.

So oversimplification of statements does only lower the quality and credibility of everything said.

Then I can assure you that with some practise you can get extremely high keeper rates even with very fast moving objects if you manage to keep the focus points on the target. Since I happen shoot racing horses I think I can say that with some confidence from experience.
The camera is less well in making up for user weaknesses though and anyone liking green mode or spray and pray appoaches (Tony N comes to mind) will not be happy.

Again I think the user review is relatively fair and not something where a reviewer started out with the intention to show how bad something is (it's called "rishiing" these days).

So thank you for the effort.
I've got an A6000 and use the FE 4/70-200 G with it in spray 'n pray mode (yes, this should be a selectable mode marked [S&P] on all cameras). In good light it's fantastic.

Presently, I use the A6000 for the 70-200 as a mini-sports set up and have the settings as follows . . .

Auto review [Off]
Pre-AF [Off]
AF area is set to [Wide]
Drive mode, Continuous shooting [Mid], which is around 6 frames per second so the AF-C can keep up (High is 11 fps, too ambitious),
Focus mode [Continuous AF-C]
AF drive speed [Fast]
AF track duration [Normal]
Smile/face detect [Off]
Lock on AF [On, start w/shutter]
AF w/shutter [On]
AEL w/shutter [On]
e-front curtain shutter [On]
AF adjustment set [On]

Some of the above I may ((most likely) have set up wrong, so could do with advice.

Also, I could do with advice on how to set up the K-3 and K-1 for the same task of maxed out AF-C and continuous shooting of moving subjects.

Many thanks.
08-05-2016, 04:23 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by empyrean Quote
I was able to. Did you read the review closely? The problem was the keeper rate was very low; neither of the links you provided mentioned how many OOF shots were in those sequences. When I got in-focus shots, as mentioned, they were very good.
I still believe you are being plain dishonest in your review. You wrote that K-1 lacks AF-C customization, while there are several options to customize the AF-C behavior. And they do influence the outcome quite a lot. I personally managed to improve my keeper rate in AF-C from about 25% to some 75% just by adjusting the camera and learning how to play on it's advantages.
Also, price-wise the K-1 should be compared rather to 6D than 1Dx. And in that light, it doesn't seem abysmal in AF anymore. On the contrary.
08-05-2016, 04:29 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
Legacy manual-focus lenses on the K-1 really don't make any sense, because you don't have any focusing aids of any consequence. You can't even swap in a split-prism and micro-prism focusing screen. When I wanted a camera specifically to use with vintage lenses, I picked up a used Sony A7 for a lot less than a K-1 would have cost. I've got focus peaking and magnification in the EVF, and it's working well.
I tend to disagree. The viewfinder is large enough and bright enough that (aside from the FA Limiteds) I can use my K lenses for critical work, reserving the 28-105 for casual shooting. I've just sold my K-3 w/ split-image screen and APSc lenses are next. They weren't being used, so why keep them?

Granted, that's just me, but IMHO K-1 is expressly suited to legacy manual focus lenses - and intentionally so.
08-05-2016, 04:41 AM - 2 Likes   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
To all Pentax apologists, just face it, Pentax AF has never been and still isn't up to par.
That doesn't mean the AF is useless, or that Pentax is useless, it means that the AF functions is behind the competitions AF. Thatīs it.
The review is correct in it's area of criticism, but the choice of words is overly severe. It isn't clear the reviewer actually set the camera up correctly.

To all Pentax AF critics: We know Pentax is behind the current market in tracking autofocus. You should, too. It's old news. K-1 tracking AF.C is serviceable for a field camera. Adjust your expectations and properly inform your readers.

Pentax single autofocus is fast, flexible and accurate. I would expect that, considering K-1 is marketed as a field, studio and wedding camera.

Pentax tracking autofocus is not as advanced as that in competitive cameras. I'm not surprised. Pentax does not market K-1 as an action / sports camera. Reviews would be more informative taking that as a given and reviewing what tracking AF.C can do.

Satisfactory results can be achieved with careful attention to camera settings, and given active user interaction with the camera (AKA technique).

Pentax is just different.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-05-2016 at 08:26 AM.
08-05-2016, 05:15 AM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I tend to disagree. The viewfinder is large enough and bright enough that (aside from the FA Limiteds) I can use my K lenses for critical work, reserving the 28-105 for casual shooting. I've just sold my K-3 w/ split-image screen and APSc lenses are next. They weren't being used, so why keep them?

Granted, that's just me, but IMHO K-1 is expressly suited to legacy manual focus lenses - and intentionally so.
I concur....for what it's worth. Probally enjoy my K's more then the limiteds.
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