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08-13-2016, 11:12 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Do we know that Fujifilm surpassed Pentax? In Japan, Pentax used to beat Fuji with the Q...
It appears that they have. The website that collects the EXIF data from more advanced photo posting sites like Flickr, 500px and Pixabay show that Fuji is #5 behind Sony and the iPhone. The Canon 5DIII was the most used camera and Canon was the top overall brand. These are global results from sites that cover a wide group of active photographers of all experience levels.

So at least when talking about active photographers who use these sites Fuji has surpassed Pentax. https://explorecams.com/stats/global

It has been a few years, but a couple of SEO guys I know were arguing over who was having more success with mirrorless. Fuji or Sony. They ran multiple search analytics to see what brand was generating the most activity on blogs, advertisements, forums, and places I never thought about. When I asked where Pentax ranked in this type of metric, it was pathetically low relative to the other two. This was before the K-1 and 645z which have both helped the brand significantly, but I doubt much has changed.

If you can show some large scale metric with Pentax has surpassed Fuji, I would love to see it.

08-13-2016, 11:27 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It still remains to be seen, can Pentax even build the type of AF system that would take them to the next level in AF operation. You'd think by now they would have reverse engineered someone else's faster focusing technology and tracking technology. It's 4 years now since they claimed better AF was the new priority. Where they are is disappointing. Unless you consider being where Nikon was 4 years ago progress. Since then the Nikon D500 has come out, and no one is even saying AF is priority any more. They are a hard company to figure out sometimes.
Haven't designed a camera AF, but servo design in my job, yes all the time. I would take the risk to say that Ricoh CAN do an AF like Nikon if they have the budget for it. The reason is that AF tracking speed relies on speed of hardware (inner servo loop) and real time processing capacity (outer servo loop) used and the nightmare is about tuning it and having no stability issues with various lenses because there is a wide variety of lens transient responses. Usually, AF modules require development and qualification before even putting it into a commercial camera model, because if you increase AF tracking speed you also reduce the margin of stability and so you take more risk ending up with some lenses having shaky AF or AF just go completely off target (like it is with the K3 27 points tracking with 1.4x TC). Currently, Pentax AF is relatively slower than competition but there is less risk of having that AF inoperable with some lenses. Engineering of new AF modules is costly, especially in term of making it reliable for high volumes and a variety of interchangeable lenses.
08-13-2016, 11:32 AM   #108
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Sorry, but IMHO such kind of statistics are irrelevant in a discussion about market share; they're only about those sites' users and their cameras and how many pictures they post. What's worse, AFAIK Flickr is not even counting Pentax cameras properly (just take a look at their Camera Finder and try to find the Pentax cameras...); I'm not sure about other brands, but likely there are problems there, too.

I'll give you that - in terms of popularity, in the western world, Fujifilm outdoes Pentax by a large margin. However, I'm not talking about popularity but sales.

The only data I have is the BCNRanking's sales charts; what I'd like to see is global figures.
08-13-2016, 11:36 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Yes. Part of it has to do with their financial situation over the past 10 years, but there is no doubt that they have fallen behind in a few key areas and failed to capitalize on the opportunities that they have had. Fuji jumped into the market and surpassed Pentax in just a few short years. Pentax could be where Fuji is today if they would have had the innovation and marketing. Its not to late for Ricoh to release a K-mount mirrorless body based on the LX design with a high quality EVF. All of the manual K glass shooters would love it and with on-sensor PDAF the modern AF glass would still work very well. The technology is finally here to make it a viable option.
I use a Fuji X-M1 as a small APS-C option, but I use it with other lenses (mostly Pentax, sometimes Minolta) because I haven't spent the money yet on Fuji glass. Fuji have fast primes at the traditonal focal lengths and all of them, without exception, are reputed to be superb.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
That's right. For years and years Pentax have failed to relegate APS-C to cheap entry cameras or highly-specialised sports cameras, and instead treated it as flagship technology.

I'm very glad they corrected their course before the market made all decisions for them.

As for the lenses, Ricoh has a roadmap full of new lens releases. We'll see them soon enough. These are great times for Pentaxians.
Before the D500 came out, Pentax had a big advantage in the APS-C field as everyone else appeared to have stopped taking it seriously, but they failed to capitalise on it. Pentax have built the best APS-C cameras for at least the last five years, when taking price into account, but the problem is that the lenses simply aren't there. Fuji came along and did with APS-C lenses what Pentax should have done from the beginning.

08-13-2016, 12:07 PM - 1 Like   #110
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Maybe I just don't "get it"?

Almost all the K1 shooters I see are beyond happy with the K1 and most are out shooting and enjoying this fine camera. If they were worried about shooting "what's popular" they would have left Pentax long ago. The ones that seem to be most worried about the K1 and Pentax in general are the ones that don't have the K1...which kind of limits their credibility in my way of thinking?

Try one, buy one, or whatever way you can manage to get your hands on one and I think the conversation will change for many. This is the first Pentax upgrade I have made that has brought an instant and gratifying major improvement over previous bodies. It was barely out of the box until I had my first "Wow!!!" moment.

Regards!
08-13-2016, 12:30 PM - 1 Like   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Maybe I just don't "get it"?

Almost all the K1 shooters I see are beyond happy with the K1 and most are out shooting and enjoying this fine camera. If they were worried about shooting "what's popular" they would have left Pentax long ago. The ones that seem to be most worried about the K1 and Pentax in general are the ones that don't have the K1...which kind of limits their credibility in my way of thinking?

Try one, buy one, or whatever way you can manage to get your hands on one and I think the conversation will change for many. This is the first Pentax upgrade I have made that has brought an instant and gratifying major improvement over previous bodies. It was barely out of the box until I had my first "Wow!!!" moment.

Regards!
When the salesman opened the box and handed me the camera I supposedly ginned like a little kid on Christmas morning.
08-13-2016, 12:53 PM - 1 Like   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
When the salesman opened the box and handed me the camera I supposedly grinned like a little kid on Christmas morning.
I was a skeptic.....Most of my past upgrades were centered around learning the new menus and hoping for better IQ, which was often elusive over the prior body. Always looking for better and more accurate AF, I was seldom rewarded by much if any improvement. You tend to find it "in your mind", but in reality it was never there to any great degree.

First thing I did was to mount the Bigma 50-500 and try the AF. The Bigma has been a slow focusing old blind hound on every Pentax body I have owned for over 10 years. Accuracy has been spotty and in low light just forget it!

So how does the Bigma do on the K1? Lightning fast AF and accurate too...even in light so low you can barely see your target subject.

Moonless night...could barely see them...nothing in the viewfinder. Point and hope....instant focus with the K1 assist light. Never before was this possible.

K1 Tamron 70-200


That's barely the beginning of the improvements with the K1. Wonderful new SR, great WB and exposure. Just an all around great camera!
No, I don't shoot BIF or sports action.....if I did I would know what to buy and would not be here whimpering because I didn't buy it!

Regards!
08-13-2016, 01:48 PM - 2 Likes   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Maybe I just don't "get it"?
It's really quite simple.
If you loved chocolate milkshakes but couldn't have one, for whatever reason, that would likely cause a degree of angst.
If, OTH, you were unable to acquire a Lutefisk milkshake, for whatever reason, you likely wouldn't care.

The same principle applies here. I suspect the overwhelming majority of non-owners who are negative toward the K-1 are those who, for some reason or another, can't obtain one. (Can't afford it, could afford it but can't justify it, the NO! department put her foot down, etc.)
The negativity is in many cases an attempt to convince themselves, that it isn't a good thing.
Want it but can't have it → Distress
Can't have it but don't want it → Bliss

08-13-2016, 02:10 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm not talking about popularity but sales.
Unpopular products typically don't sell. Sales and popularity are linked. When we look at which is more popular iOS or Android we look at units sold. When asking what is the most popular car in your country what are you basing that off of if not sales?

---------- Post added 08-13-16 at 04:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
they're only about those sites' users and their cameras and how many pictures they post. What's worse, AFAIK Flickr is not even counting Pentax cameras properly (just take a look at their Camera Finder and try to find the Pentax cameras...); I'm not sure about other brands, but likely there are problems there, too.
Flickr and 500px represent a pretty good sample of photography enthusiasts. Enthusiasts are Ricoh's target market. Maybe you can give me another photo-sharing website that is a better, larger representation of photography enthusiasts? We can look at that one as well.

There is no evidence the Flickr as any bias towards or against any brand. Unless you have some you want to share.
08-13-2016, 02:48 PM   #115
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QuoteQuote:
Want it but can't have it → Distress
Can't have it but don't want it → Bliss
Personally I would be happy to buy a second camera cupboard and fill it with K-1, 645zs 4Dxs and lots of lenses for them. What would be the downside? There's nothing special about a K-1. It's the same as anything else. I won't turn it down.

But I would hope any camera enthusiast would be the same. Can you ever own too many cameras? So the the thing about whether folks want them? Duh.

But if no one offers you one, and you have to decide how much macaroni you'd have to eat to pay for it, you might decide good health and nutrition, vacations and a lot of other things are worth more to you than a K-1.
Not everyone has one gifted to them. Or can just pick one up without it affecting their life style.

I'm not sure what relevance that has to anything. We could equally say, a number of other folks who for whatever reason seem determined to rub their good fortune in everyone else's face. And then complain because others who aren't in the same position might grumble about it. You only bought a K-1 cause you couldn't afford a 645z.

let the why I don't want a 645z nonsense being. You want one, a K-1 is all you can afford.

SO, I'm going to make ito make it real easy, for the unhumble. If you you don't have a 645z don't bother bragging to me. You don't have what I'm interested in. Saying you bought a K-1 is like a half assed solution. You settled.
A third option for the "everyone wants a K-1 like me" folks. Some people have their sights set higher. A K-1 would be less than half way, all least in price, to what they want.

The same weapon that is used to dis non K-1 owners works just as good from the next model up. I'm surprised you didn't think of that.

Last edited by normhead; 08-13-2016 at 03:29 PM.
08-13-2016, 03:35 PM - 1 Like   #116
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Some people have to choose. They have to decide to buy a K-1. They have to negotiate, sell something or choose not to do or buy something else - or all of that. I did.

My family has never been to Disneyworld - which is a sort of middle American pilgrimage. My wife and I haven't taken a destination vacation in ten years. We drive cars that cost less than $30,000 new for 12 years that we've saved enough to pay for with cash. We've saved the maximum in our 401k's for 30 years, so we're not catching up. We're finished paying for college * 3. We've made our last mortgage payment. We've bought the wedding.

2014 was like getting the biggest raise of your life in terms of excess disposable income. So if I decide to sell some stuff and buy what amounts to an adult toy, so what? Someone wants to spoil it and make me feel guilty now, after all these years denying myself so I could do my responsibilities to everyone else? *

* (I can't say that here.)

Last edited by monochrome; 08-14-2016 at 09:52 AM.
08-13-2016, 04:08 PM   #117
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QuoteQuote:
The same weapon that is used to dis non K-1 owners works just as good from the next model up. I'm surprised you didn't think of that.
Amateurs and enthusiasts don't need a 645z. A K-1 and the Holy Trinity zooms can produce anything an amateur enthusiast needs, for 1/4 the money. There is absolutely no non-professional application that requires 645z - it is overkill for every possible amateur use.

In fact, it was a mistake by Pentax to release the 645z in the first place. They have to refresh the entire FA645 lens line. They should be concentrating on a consumer model 35mm and an action / sports APSc with tracking autofocus.
08-13-2016, 04:11 PM - 1 Like   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
If, OTH, you were unable to acquire a Lutefisk milkshake,
I've been here a long time...have never hit the "Report Button" on anyone, not ever. But you just tempted me. The only reason I don't is I wouldn't want some poor soul having to look at what you posted and gag his/her guts out.

Regards!
08-13-2016, 04:30 PM - 1 Like   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Personally I would be happy to buy a second camera cupboard and fill it with K-1, 645zs 4Dxs and lots of lenses for them. What would be the downside? There's nothing special about a K-1. It's the same as anything else. I won't turn it down.

But I would hope any camera enthusiast would be the same. Can you ever own too many cameras? So the the thing about whether folks want them? Duh.

But if no one offers you one, and you have to decide how much macaroni you'd have to eat to pay for it, you might decide good health and nutrition, vacations and a lot of other things are worth more to you than a K-1.
Not everyone has one gifted to them. Or can just pick one up without it affecting their life style.

I'm not sure what relevance that has to anything. We could equally say, a number of other folks who for whatever reason seem determined to rub their good fortune in everyone else's face. And then complain because others who aren't in the same position might grumble about it. You only bought a K-1 cause you couldn't afford a 645z.

let the why I don't want a 645z nonsense being. You want one, a K-1 is all you can afford.

SO, I'm going to make ito make it real easy, for the unhumble. If you you don't have a 645z don't bother bragging to me. You don't have what I'm interested in. Saying you bought a K-1 is like a half assed solution. You settled.
A third option for the "everyone wants a K-1 like me" folks. Some people have their sights set higher. A K-1 would be less than half way, all least in price, to what they want.

The same weapon that is used to dis non K-1 owners works just as good from the next model up. I'm surprised you didn't think of that.
First, I don't have a K-1. I would like to have one. Buying one would require some sacrifice of other wants/needs so it's a matter of priorities.
Second, I wasn't dissing non K-1 owners. I was taking a poke at those who dis a product without having any firsthand experience with it.
I'm surprised that you didn't get that.

EDIT: Norm, I'm not sure how to take your reply. I hope you don't think I was disrespecting you. I highly value your opinion, insight, skills, and expertise. If I've offended you personally I apologize.

Last edited by Parallax; 08-13-2016 at 06:26 PM.
08-13-2016, 05:14 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I've been here a long time...have never hit the "Report Button" on anyone, not ever. But you just tempted me. The only reason I don't is I wouldn't want some poor soul having to look at what you posted and gag his/her guts out.

Regards!
Deal with it!
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