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09-06-2016, 05:29 PM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
Lets hope the fix fixes this... Added 1.95 stops and lifted the shadows 100%. 908 seconds ISO100.

You know, if this were a sci-fi/horror movie, this is the part when the specs start to swarm and coalesce in the rooms of your house. They are not artifact, THEY ARE THE LARVAL FORMS OF MALEVOLENT CREATURES FROM A PARALLEL DIMENSION visualized by the advanced sensor of your state-of-the-art camera!!!!!



(...just finished watch "Stranger Things" on Netflix this week...)


Steve

09-06-2016, 07:18 PM   #197
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same band here.
09-06-2016, 11:28 PM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tjompen1968 Quote
Lets hope the fix fixes this... Added 1.95 stops and lifted the shadows 100%. 908 seconds ISO100.

Since you don’t have the dark band at the top I would guess that your sensor already is “calibrated”, and that this is how a good sensor behaves. Besides, according to some this is both normal and expected and doesn’t really happen.
09-07-2016, 01:10 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
You'll never get guaranteed perfection, in particular not when being an early adopter.
I have custom printed t-shirt with (B)LEADING EDGE text on it as a reminder that I must resist that temptation.
With that secret weapon on my side I was resisting to K-1 for the whole 3 months.

09-07-2016, 01:22 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
I have custom printed t-shirt with (B)LEADING EDGE text on it as a reminder that I must resist that temptation.
With that secret weapon on my side I was resisting to K-1 for the whole 3 months.
Congrats!
09-07-2016, 01:36 AM   #201
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I bear the title of being the 1st K-1 user in my country (officially! ) and I know that when this phase of the childhood disease comes to an end I will forget the discomfort from being early adopter (first time in my life) and enjoy shooting. The K-1 is a so capable camera that is evident even stuck in manual mode... I look forward to using it again without any restrictions...
09-07-2016, 03:20 AM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by mir156 Quote
same band here.
Sorry to hear.

I just did the (ISO25600, 30s) test myself: No dark band and no strange white dots.
I have yet to encounter a single issue with any of the three Pentax bodies I have been owning.

I try to not to adapt too early, though. The K-1 made it extremely hard.

QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
D810 is better in pulling highlights.
Just a quick remark that technically, such a statement does not make sense.

All sensors have a linear response. There is only one dynamic range, i.e., a single dynamic range figure. Terms like "dynamic range in the shadows" or "dynamic range in the highlights" do not make sense. N.B., I realise you did no use these terms, but you associated "highlight pulling capacity" with a camera model and that does not make sense, unless you are talking about the JPEG engine built into the camera.

How much details is preserved in shadows and highlights depends on the design of tone curves that are used during RAW-"development". One can make these curves transition abruptly (maximising their linear portion) or built in soft "shoulders" that make less of the range linear but give a more "film like" look and lead to a more forgiving exposure experience.

In summary, surely there are differences in how much one can regain (apparently) lost highlights, for instance, but these differences stem from tone curve choices (either in the camera's JPEG engine or in the RAW developer you are using). For years and years, DPReview embarrassed themselves by measuring dynamic range based on JPEGs. They were just measuring tone curve properties, not sensor characteristics. At some point the penny dropped and they stopped the nonsense.

Last comment: To the best of my knowledge the K-1 and the D810 do not share the same chip. You can tell that by the different base ISO values and it will also become apparent once the K-1 has been measured by DxO labs. The D810's chip has slightly more dynamic range. I'm assuming the K-1 uses a variant of the chip used in the D800.
09-07-2016, 04:23 AM   #203
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It does make sense in real world. When I tried to handle D810 files in post the same way as D800E files it didn't work very well. D800E should be shot to avoid blowing highlights and while D810 allows large adjustments it will not take the same level of punishment when it comes to shadows.

Borrow and try out yourself.

Ming Thein discusses this in his article too: The Nikon D810 review: a worthy D800E upgrade? ? Ming Thein | Photographer

09-07-2016, 04:56 AM   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
Borrow and try out yourself.
What you are seeing are different tone curves and potentially different meter biases.

Again, a sensor is a linear device. It does not count photons differently depending on how many photons there are.

Don't assume that using Lightroom, for instance, with all sliders set to "0" creates a level playing field for all cameras. It does not. There is a camera-specific, non-linear tone curve in the camera profile to start with and Adobe does other camera-specific things under the hood.

In particular since version LR 4.0, "0" has nothing to do with "neutral" anymore. That's when I stopped upgrading and it was the beginning of my migration to Capture One.

Regarding the Ming Thein article: He uses the phrase "there will be a loss of dynamic range at the top end". In other words, he does not know what "dynamic range" is. He uses ACR for comparisons. That only works, if one assumes that everyone is using ACR anyhow.
09-07-2016, 05:41 AM   #205
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You can see the same "issue" with Capture One software and Nikon Capture NX. Not LR only specific. D800E handles shadow boosting better and barely allows ~one stop of highlight pulling.
09-07-2016, 07:07 AM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJKoski Quote
You can see the same "issue" with Capture One software and Nikon Capture NX.
Not entirely surprising, as Capture One appears to use the manufacture profiles as a default or at least a basis for their own profiles. The Nikon Capture NX characteristics are probably what both LR and C1 are copying. So not really a surprise.

But let's agree to disagree. It is technically impossible for a sensor to have a different highlight characteristic than another sensor. But if you don't accept that then I won't try to convince you any longer.
09-07-2016, 07:19 AM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
It is technically impossible for a sensor to have a different highlight characteristic than another sensor
except the one in the Canon 5D MK IV (albeit through some trickery). Forget subtle focus tweaks, Canon’s Dual Pixel RAW tech can give you an additional stop in the highlights!
09-07-2016, 07:38 AM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Not entirely surprising, as Capture One appears to use the manufacture profiles as a default or at least a basis for their own profiles. The Nikon Capture NX characteristics are probably what both LR and C1 are copying. So not really a surprise.

But let's agree to disagree. It is technically impossible for a sensor to have a different highlight characteristic than another sensor. But if you don't accept that then I won't try to convince you any longer.
Isn’t it all about at which level the camera displays clipped areas?
For instance, if the camera is programmed to display highlights as clipped with “blinkies” at a lower value, then you as a user get the impression that you can recover more highlight.
09-07-2016, 07:47 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
I saw in a video yesterday that it adds a whole lot of noise if used on high iso photos. I wonder if that's just a side effect of the tech, or it'll be fixed in later firmware (haven't looking into how this actually works)
09-07-2016, 08:13 AM   #210
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Class A, yes yes, linear sensor is a linear sensor. I just wrote about my experiences with those camera bodies with the said software and as I used the mentioned SW I had to adapt new ways to expose.

Some day we hopefully have a sensor which drops sensitivity when pixel approaches saturation point. Sonyalpharumors had news on this that Sony has patented the tech already. Then there would be properly handled highlight shoulder like negative film has.
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