K-1 white dot issue. ?

stevebrot · 09-05-2016, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by awscreo

Basically just a cap on test - 80s at 3200 iso, exposure boosted to +1 in lightroom (at base exposure it was too dark, my mistake for not running it longer), with and without NR, color noise reduction at 0.

There is no correct exposure for a cap-on test. Anything in the capture is noise and adjusting the noise in PP is just modified noise. If there was little to see at ISO 3200 and 80s that is a good thing.

Steve

awscreo · 09-05-2016, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

There is no correct exposure for a cap-on test. Anything in the capture is noise and adjusting the noise in PP is just modified noise. If there was little to see at ISO 3200 and 80s that is a good thing.

Steve

I included a link to raw files, you can download them and have a look. They looked very clean to me. So glad my unit seems to be just perfect, no mirror lock-ups reported on the forum, no excessive noise. I was worried after I read all this stuff on the forum.

stevebrot · 09-05-2016, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by awscreo

I included a link to raw files, you can download them and have a look. They looked very clean to me. So glad my unit seems to be just perfect, no mirror lock-ups reported on the forum, no excessive noise. I was worried after I read all this stuff on the forum.

That is very cool and I am pleased for you and hope that your experience continues to be troublefree. Forum posts are sort of a strange thing. Sometimes a problem report is traceable to user error and sometimes to false expectations, but usually the problem is real. Whether a reported problem is random failure, the result of a design deficiency, and/or is a pervasive fault is more difficult to gauge. Forum membership, after all, is not a random sampling of camera buyers and oftentimes our users purchase with specific uses in mind. I have often thought that if there is a potential problem with any Pentax camera, the members of this forum will find it!

Steve

awscreo · 09-05-2016, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

That is very cool and I am pleased for you and hope that your experience continues to be troublefree. Forum posts are sort of a strange thing. Sometimes a problem report is traceable to user error and sometimes to false expectations, but usually the problem is real. Whether a reported problem is random failure, the result of a design deficiency, and/or is a pervasive fault is more difficult to gauge. Forum membership, after all, is not a random sampling of camera buyers and oftentimes our users purchase with specific uses in mind. I have often thought that if there is a potential problem with any Pentax camera, the members of this forum will find it!

Steve

Yes, it's probably not only a pentaxforum issue, it's the internet, and the fact that people with issues will always be a lot more outspoken than those that are just enjoying the product they purchased. In any rate, I hope those with issues will get them resolved, because this is truly a spectacular camera, and it deserves the praise most of people giving it

MJKoski · 09-06-2016, 08:24 AM

More info on this matter. Fellow finnish K-1 owner asked Focus Nordic (Pentax service in Sweden) about that black band on top of the image. Answer was kind of shocking - They are aware of it and the cause is sensor calibration which has NOT been completed in factory! The service points are currently being delivered the tools required to perform the needed operation.

This is related to small batch of K-1 bodies, not all of them. It should also explain why some unlucky ones have these noise problems.

This is not funny at all.

awscreo · 09-06-2016, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

More info on this matter. Fellow finnish K-1 owner asked Focus Nordic (Pentax service in Sweden) about that black band on top of the image. Answer was kind of shocking - They are aware of it and the cause is sensor calibration which has NOT been completed in factory! The service points are currently being delivered the tools required to perform the needed operation.

This is not funny at all.

Your unit seems to be on a low end of quality control

Hope they fix everything for you. I'd be very pissed off if I experienced those issues

MJKoski · 09-06-2016, 08:34 AM - **2 Likes**

Yea, pissed is easy word for this. Especially when called a troll when participating in the discussion.

awscreo · 09-06-2016, 08:41 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by MJKoski

Yea, pissed is easy word for this. Especially when called a troll when participating in the discussion.

I don't quite understand the aggression towards someone that reports an issue personally. I saw some crazy holywars on dpreview forums, because of so many members of different systems are participating in discussions. Here however, it's a specialized pentax owner forum, and I though people would have more empathy towards one another since we're all in the same boat. Anyway, hope your issues are resolved quickly.

Unregistered User · 09-06-2016, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by MJKoski

Yea, pissed is easy word for this. Especially when called a troll when participating in the discussion.

Do you have a repair center in Finland or is it sent to Sweden?

I got an answer from the Swedish repair center today, after sending them some test shots with white noise, stating that the early cameras had not had their sensors properly adjusted. Not sure what it means but I guess I will send it in.

Gimbal · 09-06-2016, 09:25 AM

Then the question arises, how do you know if you should send it in?
If it's obvious it's obvious, but if it's quite ok? Could it perhaps be even better?

Do they have a date or serial number or something after which the cameras are supposed to be ok?

Unregistered User · 09-06-2016, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Then the question arises, how do you know if you should send it in?
If it's obvious it's obvious, but if it's quite ok? Could it perhaps be even better?

Do they have a date or serial number or something after which the cameras are supposed to be ok?

I have no idea. Maybe there is a press release in the making?

redpit · 09-06-2016, 09:50 AM

That is bad news. I have a very early model and I have seen "bad signs" as those reported here. Now my camera is in service for fixing the stuck in manual mode problem. The service guy told me that the new spare part for the mode selector has different serial number, so this means they have redesigned it-fix it. When I mentioned the white dot issue he told me first thing first. Let's fix the selector and then you can check it... I have regretted it being an early adopter, that's for sure :-(

fromunderthebridge · 09-06-2016, 10:29 AM

Hi,

Just did a very unscientistic (jk) test of my own sample.

Stuffed the camera in a closet, which was not completely light sealed. Hugged the camera with a coat to prevent light leak through viewfinder. Bulb mode f/32 (to minimize lightleaks from lenscap) 103" exposure at ISO 1600. High-ISO and long exposure NR OFF. Pushed +5 stops and am seeing mostly uniform, colored noise. Not the dreaded white spots. Camera temp according to EXIF tool was 25C.

These are just my observations, your mileage may vary. Also these results may not apply to heavy exposure stacking and other specific use cases.

Camera info for those interested in tracking down batch variations:
Firmware version 1.00. Bought in Helsinki, Finland. Pre-ordered and was from the first batch of the shop I got it from (AFAIK).
Camera info from EXIF-tool.
Manufacture Date : 2016:03:04
Production Code : 2.2
Internal Serial Number : 2001498

banep · 09-06-2016, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Tjompen1968

I got an answer from the Swedish repair center today, after sending them some test shots with white noise, stating that the early cameras had not had their sensors properly adjusted. Not sure what it means but I guess I will send it in.

If that is true it is exactly the same story like Nikon D810. Servicing activity on D810 was only adjusting some sensor parameters.

fromunderthebridge · 09-06-2016, 10:31 AM

It seems possible that this could be a unit specific issue. (wrt. my previous post)

09-06-2016, 10:29 AM	#178
fromunderthebridge Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 181	Hi, Just did a very unscientistic (jk) test of my own sample. Stuffed the camera in a closet, which was not completely light sealed. Hugged the camera with a coat to prevent light leak through viewfinder. Bulb mode f/32 (to minimize lightleaks from lenscap) 103" exposure at ISO 1600. High-ISO and long exposure NR OFF. Pushed +5 stops and am seeing mostly uniform, colored noise. Not the dreaded white spots. Camera temp according to EXIF tool was 25C. These are just my observations, your mileage may vary. Also these results may not apply to heavy exposure stacking and other specific use cases. Camera info for those interested in tracking down batch variations: Firmware version 1.00. Bought in Helsinki, Finland. Pre-ordered and was from the first batch of the shop I got it from (AFAIK). Camera info from EXIF-tool. Manufacture Date : 2016:03:04 Production Code : 2.2 Internal Serial Number : 2001498 Last edited by fromunderthebridge; 09-06-2016 at 10:29 AM. Reason: Removed accidental quote

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09-05-2016, 11:28 AM	#166
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by awscreo Basically just a cap on test - 80s at 3200 iso, exposure boosted to +1 in lightroom (at base exposure it was too dark, my mistake for not running it longer), with and without NR, color noise reduction at 0. There is no correct exposure for a cap-on test. Anything in the capture is noise and adjusting the noise in PP is just modified noise. If there was little to see at ISO 3200 and 80s that is a good thing. Steve

09-05-2016, 01:32 PM	#167
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by stevebrot There is no correct exposure for a cap-on test. Anything in the capture is noise and adjusting the noise in PP is just modified noise. If there was little to see at ISO 3200 and 80s that is a good thing. Steve I included a link to raw files, you can download them and have a look. They looked very clean to me. So glad my unit seems to be just perfect, no mirror lock-ups reported on the forum, no excessive noise. I was worried after I read all this stuff on the forum.

09-05-2016, 02:19 PM	#168
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by awscreo I included a link to raw files, you can download them and have a look. They looked very clean to me. So glad my unit seems to be just perfect, no mirror lock-ups reported on the forum, no excessive noise. I was worried after I read all this stuff on the forum. That is very cool and I am pleased for you and hope that your experience continues to be troublefree. Forum posts are sort of a strange thing. Sometimes a problem report is traceable to user error and sometimes to false expectations, but usually the problem is real. Whether a reported problem is random failure, the result of a design deficiency, and/or is a pervasive fault is more difficult to gauge. Forum membership, after all, is not a random sampling of camera buyers and oftentimes our users purchase with specific uses in mind. I have often thought that if there is a potential problem with any Pentax camera, the members of this forum will find it! Steve

09-05-2016, 02:25 PM	#169
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by stevebrot That is very cool and I am pleased for you and hope that your experience continues to be troublefree. Forum posts are sort of a strange thing. Sometimes a problem report is traceable to user error and sometimes to false expectations, but usually the problem is real. Whether a reported problem is random failure, the result of a design deficiency, and/or is a pervasive fault is more difficult to gauge. Forum membership, after all, is not a random sampling of camera buyers and oftentimes our users purchase with specific uses in mind. I have often thought that if there is a potential problem with any Pentax camera, the members of this forum will find it! Steve Yes, it's probably not only a pentaxforum issue, it's the internet, and the fact that people with issues will always be a lot more outspoken than those that are just enjoying the product they purchased. In any rate, I hope those with issues will get them resolved, because this is truly a spectacular camera, and it deserves the praise most of people giving it

09-06-2016, 08:24 AM	#170
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	More info on this matter. Fellow finnish K-1 owner asked Focus Nordic (Pentax service in Sweden) about that black band on top of the image. Answer was kind of shocking - They are aware of it and the cause is sensor calibration which has NOT been completed in factory! The service points are currently being delivered the tools required to perform the needed operation. This is related to small batch of K-1 bodies, not all of them. It should also explain why some unlucky ones have these noise problems. This is not funny at all.

09-06-2016, 08:28 AM	#171
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by MJKoski More info on this matter. Fellow finnish K-1 owner asked Focus Nordic (Pentax service in Sweden) about that black band on top of the image. Answer was kind of shocking - They are aware of it and the cause is sensor calibration which has NOT been completed in factory! The service points are currently being delivered the tools required to perform the needed operation. This is not funny at all. Your unit seems to be on a low end of quality control Hope they fix everything for you. I'd be very pissed off if I experienced those issues

09-06-2016, 08:34 AM - 2 Likes	#172
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	Yea, pissed is easy word for this. Especially when called a troll when participating in the discussion.

09-06-2016, 08:41 AM - 1 Like	#173
awscreo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,722	Originally posted by MJKoski Yea, pissed is easy word for this. Especially when called a troll when participating in the discussion. I don't quite understand the aggression towards someone that reports an issue personally. I saw some crazy holywars on dpreview forums, because of so many members of different systems are participating in discussions. Here however, it's a specialized pentax owner forum, and I though people would have more empathy towards one another since we're all in the same boat. Anyway, hope your issues are resolved quickly.

09-06-2016, 08:57 AM	#174
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by MJKoski Yea, pissed is easy word for this. Especially when called a troll when participating in the discussion. Do you have a repair center in Finland or is it sent to Sweden? I got an answer from the Swedish repair center today, after sending them some test shots with white noise, stating that the early cameras had not had their sensors properly adjusted. Not sure what it means but I guess I will send it in.

09-06-2016, 09:25 AM	#175
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106 Original Poster	Then the question arises, how do you know if you should send it in? If it's obvious it's obvious, but if it's quite ok? Could it perhaps be even better? Do they have a date or serial number or something after which the cameras are supposed to be ok?

09-06-2016, 09:38 AM	#176
Unregistered User Guest	Originally posted by Gimbal Then the question arises, how do you know if you should send it in? If it's obvious it's obvious, but if it's quite ok? Could it perhaps be even better? Do they have a date or serial number or something after which the cameras are supposed to be ok? I have no idea. Maybe there is a press release in the making?

09-06-2016, 09:50 AM	#177
redpit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Greece Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,857	That is bad news. I have a very early model and I have seen "bad signs" as those reported here. Now my camera is in service for fixing the stuck in manual mode problem. The service guy told me that the new spare part for the mode selector has different serial number, so this means they have redesigned it-fix it. When I mentioned the white dot issue he told me first thing first. Let's fix the selector and then you can check it... I have regretted it being an early adopter, that's for sure :-(

09-06-2016, 10:31 AM	#179
banep Banned Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 360	Originally posted by Tjompen1968 I got an answer from the Swedish repair center today, after sending them some test shots with white noise, stating that the early cameras had not had their sensors properly adjusted. Not sure what it means but I guess I will send it in. If that is true it is exactly the same story like Nikon D810. Servicing activity on D810 was only adjusting some sensor parameters.

09-06-2016, 10:31 AM	#180
fromunderthebridge Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 181	It seems possible that this could be a unit specific issue. (wrt. my previous post)