[JBox]

All right. I got the body back from 2nd service round. Things got interesting.

This is again the loaner:


This is the "fixed" unit:


Quick look tells that banding has been nearly fixed BUT now this unit produces darker picture than the loaner at exact same settings. How can this be? 1st service round reported that "sensor was calibrated" and now it said that "adjusted AND calibrated". This is not good. It seems some units cannot be calibrated properly with software and there might be hardware level issues.

Interesting that you just got yours back. Mine just shipped from Precision yesterday, and I should have it back tomorrow. Maybe all this time they (Ricoh) were working on a better calibration program?

I don't see a big difference between those two images, but I am guessing I have stared at them a lot less than you have. I have noticed that the K-1 tends to overexpose in general compared to the K-5. I am not sure which one is "correct", but I wonder if that has anything to do with what you are seeing.

[Class A]

...BUT now this unit produces darker picture than the loaner at exact same settings. How can this be?

Perhaps the unit is now better calibrated than the loaner unit?

Ideally, the image should be black. A completely black image is not realistic but the darker, the better.

It looks like your camera is now better calibrated than it ever was and even outperforms the loaner you were happy with.

What's not to like?

1st service round reported that "sensor was calibrated" and now it said that "adjusted AND calibrated". This is not good.

Why is that not good?

Perhaps they are just using different words to refer to the same procedure. Perhaps the "adjustment" was necessary and resulted in better performance?

It seems some units cannot be calibrated properly with software and there might be hardware level issues.

What makes you think that?

What about the performance of the serviced unit is not satisfactory, suggesting a "hardware level issue" is at play?

It seems like you are looking for negative aspects when there is no real reason to suspect that there are any.

[MJKoski]

The situation is now such that base ISO is not 100 anymore. It is really something lower, about ~64, I keep getting darker exposures at all ISO values what they used to be with THIS unit before any service. This is not necessarily bad thing, just weird.

[Class A]

The situation is now such that base ISO is not 100 anymore. It is really something lower, about ~64, ...

I very much doubt that this is the case.

If it were, you would have been given a free upgrade to a 0.64 stop increase in dynamic range.

[MJKoski]

I need more exposure time to get equal exposures in brightness now. As much as 2/3 stop difference.

[JBox]

Ideally, the image should be black. A completely black image is not realistic but the darker, the better.

I completely agree on this.

I have mine back from Precision and have done only very cursory testing so far. The dark band is gone, which was the issue I sent it in for. This is very good news. I think the overall noise might be lower, but I will need more time testing to know for sure.

I need more exposure time to get equal exposures in brightness now. As much as 2/3 stop difference.

This sounds correct to me. I have noticed, like many here, that the K-1 overexposes compared to say the K-5 for example. About 2/3 stops lower would get the K-1 closer to the K-5. The linking of the sensor calibration issues and overexposure was something that @Paul2660 brought-up earlier in this thread, and the more I think about it, the more I am inclined to agree.

[MJKoski]

Okay. Thanks for writing about that! I have missed that bit earlier. It explains this. And this 2nd service did not go to Sweden but somewhere else. It was gone for 4 weeks and 5 days while first service took only 8 days.

The shopkeeper noted that there was probably 3rd version of calibration software when he was trying to find out what took so long in the process this time.

[rawr]

FWIW, any 'sensor calibration' could only be software-based. Aside from the externals like IR filters, the physical chip housing, wiring, SR etc, the imaging sensor [and the RGB sensor] chips aren't like the auto-focus assembly or the shutter, for example, where a repair shop could make some mechanical adjustments to fix or tune them.

[stevebrot]

I need more exposure time to get equal exposures in brightness now. As much as 2/3 stop difference.

I'm sorry. You lost me on this and the above comments. With the exception of the pixels with 0,0,0 value, that dark frame image is 100% noise. What you are seeing is the failure to render black, which appears to be somewhat less severe than with the loaner camera. Rather than a need to increase exposure under field conditions, you are looking at the opposite (less signal needed to overcome noise).*


Steve

* I better be careful...this sort of reads like DPR's lame concept of dynamic range...

[MJKoski]

All pictures come out darker now. All, like, all. In any light. Not just amount of noise.

We tested this at the shop with the two cameras and it was not me who saw it first.

[yurko_yr]

My camera came back from Ricoh Germany but they did not fix the issue and for now they refuse to recognize the issue.
I tested two more K-1 bodies in local store where I bought mine, and they both have the same problem.
I am kind of a bit desperate. Since Ricoh Germany do not want to recognize the issue.
Nikon do accept this as a fault and provide servicing:
Service Advisory

But Pentax - not.
I have a set of amazing lenses for FF and was really looking forward to use K-1. I still can do it, but knowing that it has the problem kills all the fun that I can have with this camera (it is more about psycho than about image quality, unfortunately).
What should I do? should I keep fighting with Pentax Germany?
Yuriy

[MJKoski]

Sorry to hear that. And you are brave to discuss about it. Yes, it kind of ruined K-1 for me too. First, it is unforgivable that a known problem with 36MP sony chip went thru quality checks and second, there is still no public announcement about it. And service points seem to do lousy work to fix it. The one in sweden may be able to help you. I will check their name when I get home. I believe Tjompen's K-1 was also serviced there.

I can also scan the report from the service if you want one. You could use it to prove they are doing calibration out there.

--

EDIT: Here it is: Kameraservice Kungsör AB
http://www.kameraservice.se/startsida

[Class A]

I still can do it, but knowing that it has the problem kills all the fun that I can have with this camera (it is more about psycho than about image quality, unfortunately).

Instead of "unfortunately", you should have written "fortunately".

If the issue mainly affects you psychologically and has little to no impact on the actual photography you'd be doing then I think it would benefit you to give up on the idea that a device has to be flawless even in aspects you won't be exercising.

This issue should certainly not "kill all the fun" because there is an enormous amount of fun to be had with the K-1 even when it has a "white dots" issue.

I'm not one making excuses for manufacturers not doing their job but I don't see the point of you depriving yourself of a proud ownership if the fault is mainly a psychologically issue to you.

Look at MJKoski: Not only did he have use of a loaner unit (a treatment typically only extented to professionals on a respective network) but his camera was apparently 100% fixed and he is still unhappy and complaining.

With the right (negative) mindset one can no doubt find other issues with the K-1 in order to reject it.

What should I do?

Try a different converter like Capture One Pro and see whether there is still a problem. I understand that the issue is at least partially an interaction between some unusal noise and certain RAW processors (-> ACR, as used in Lightroom and Photoshop).

Note that Nikon's fixes often just meant that the issue was reduced, not completely eliminated. It seems that certain Sony sensors just have this issue to an extent.

Also, you can try to source the K-1 from a different dealer and see whether you can find a copy that satisfies you.

Finally, I wouldn't give up on Pentax Germany. You'll have a two years warranty period to have your camera fixed free of charge, should it turn out that there is a real defect. I don't see Pentax Germany denying a real issue for that amount of time. If they will receive enough complaints from users, I'm confident that they will recognise the issue officially and offer a respective servicing.

Again, if you take specialised shots where the "white dots" issue will be a problem all the time then perhaps the affected Sony sensors are not right for you or you'll have to find a servicing agent who is willing to do as much calibration as possible. If it is just a "this problem shouldn't be there" issue without real practical impact, I'd recommend to enjoy the camera as it is.

Life's too short to be miserable for no good reason.

[MJKoski]

Are you serious? Affected units give dots @ base ISO and 30 seconds exposure. That is *basic* job for any FF sensor.

And yes, the calibration did not go exactly well if I need 5 second exposure compared to 3 seconds before the service. Calibration means precise adjustment.

Last, loaner unit had nothing to do with Pentax good will. Instead the shopkeeper gave me his demo unit which had little to no use as no one had purchased one locally but via online orders.

[yurko_yr]

Dear MJKoski and Class A,
Thank you for your comments and support. I am not giving up on Pentax, I really love my glasses and K-5. I want to like the K-1 and I would say - I do. But...
I am shooting a lot at night and the white dots are an issue for me. Pentax advertised K1 as camera for astrophotography. Furthermore, if to take picture at ISO100, 10 sec exposure and increase the exposure +2EV in lightroom - I am getting tons of the white dots. Maybe I am wrong, but this is unacceptable for normal real life usage. These are settings that are not something rare and extreme. Yes, I can remove them in post-processing. But that is always a matter of time.

I agree that it is not worse to worry and I do not really worry. I know that there will some solution anyway. Just need to be patient. But I want people to do their job as they should and do not understand if they just ignore the issues. If I will go to doctor and he will tell me - do not worry, this tuberculosis infection that you have is not an issue. Drink hot tea and spend some time at home. I probably will be not that happy with this doctor. If I will be teaching my students improperly, ignoring important issues, then their will be no one who will select you the correct drug for particular disease. Same here. As the majority of K-1 do not have the white dots problem, it means that the body I bought is affected. And that means that company that produced the problematic product should take care of it. This is their job. But they just refused to do it. I understand that it is a matter of number of requests. If more people will report the problem, the higher chances for me to get my camera serviced. From other hand if I will convince Pentax Germany that the issue exist - other users will benefit from it as well. Even those that do not know about the problem. Since the problem do exist. And it is not just me. I spoke with another local K-1 owner and his body is not affected. We had two cameras next one each other and tested in the same conditions. His K-1 images were perfectly clean.

I contacted Pentax Germany one more time. Will see what they will tell.
I honestly just do not understand how it is possible to overlook such well known issue.
And no, I am not pessimistic. I always characterize myself and slightly idiotic optimist. I like my K-1 and want to have fun with it. I got him a new toy just yesterday - A15/3.5.
Yuriy