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08-28-2016, 12:20 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I am not sure what you mean with "expanded area AF modes". I did write I sometimes chose Sel-9, which is one AF point helped out with the 8 points around it. I would call that "expanded".
So far I did not try auto-9, as I assume "auto" does not do what I want. But that is 100% prejudice at the moment, to be fair.

For horse racing I never choose even Sel-9 as too many horses are jammed together and passing each other all the time, so you have to precisely aim at the one you want to have in focus and consequently Sel-1 is the only way to go.

The less moving subjects you have jammed into the frame the more you benefit from using Sel-9 or even more.
For expanded area AF modes see page 52 of K-1 manual.
Sorry I also didn't understood because there is no Sel-9 in K-1 viewfinder, there is only Sel1,2,3,4 (for selection of 1, or 8,24 and 32 additional points), spot and A-9, A-33.
Sel 2,3,4 are described in a manual as expanded area AF modes and on my opinion they should be most useful for shooting moving subjects.
I assumed that by mentioning Sel9 you actually think of A-9 and my question was why do you prefer A-9 over those modes?
That was obviously wrong, Sel9 in your terminology is actually Sel2 in K-1 viewfinder or expanded area AF (S) in manual.

In that case please, why do you think that Sel2 (8 additional points) is better then Sel3(24 additional points) or Sel4(32 additional points) and in which situations?
Thank you.


Last edited by banep; 08-28-2016 at 12:33 PM.
08-28-2016, 08:24 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Tracking is only available in Live view.
Tracking in live view mode is using whole sensor area and tracks very well but focusing is very slow.
Those expanded area AF.C modes available in viewfinder are also made for tracking.
When you lock focus additional 8,24 or 32 focus points are used to track subject and maintain focus when subject leaves primary focus point.
During testing I didn't notice any advantage of 8 over 24 additional points and that is why I'm asking more experienced members for advice on using optimal number of additional AF points depending on a situation.
I came to K-1 from K-5, skipped K-3/II so those expanded AF.C modes are new to me. I was using tracking in live view mode with my K-5, and panning even with my old manual film cameras including K-2.
08-28-2016, 09:53 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Tracking is only available in Live view
No, tracking is there in normal PDAF auto-focus too, as described in a little bit of detail on the Ricoh product page for the K-3, eg:


and the product page for the K-1 also describes in handy detail the difference between the various AF.C modes and features, eg:

Last edited by rawr; 08-28-2016 at 10:04 PM.
08-28-2016, 11:00 PM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
Sorry I also didn't understood because there is no Sel-9 in K-1 viewfinder
I did mean Expanded-S / Sel-2 in official terminology, where you select one initial point in the middle of a block of 9.

QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
In that case please, why do you think that Sel2 (8 additional points) is better then Sel3(24 additional points) or Sel4(32 additional points) and in which situations?
My small personal experience with these modes suggest to use them when
a) the photographer himself is unable to keep a single AF point precisely on the target (depends on skill)
b) when the main subject is not passed by other subjects in a similar distance (any groups)
c) the size of the expanded area would not cover unwanted things in the same distance or close to it, like branches in a tree
d) the background being covered by the expanded area is not a lot more contrasty than the subject. Peoples faces have poor contrast edges.

The larger you go the more you take bets on electronic helpers to replace your own capabilities to point the camera where it should, kind of more and more green mode. With all advantages and disadvantages.

A single MX bike suddenly coming at you. A single bird in flight too fast for you to track yourself. A delphin in a show suddenly jumping out of the water. A single dog running to you. That's the type of thing where I'd use more expansion area. Basically anything I'd call a snapshot / documentary images of a single subject where I do not frame at all but rely on luck and thus am fine to delegate everything to electronics. Point-and-shoot in its original sense.

With single quickly flying subjects Sel-3 seems ok to me.

I seriously suggest to set AF-hold at least to "low" when using expanded area modes. "medium" is more like it. This prevents one of the helper AF points grabbing focus attention too quickly on a contrasty background while some others are still over the subject.

08-29-2016, 12:36 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
I did mean Expanded-S / Sel-2 in official terminology, where you select one initial point in the middle of a block of 9.



My small personal experience with these modes suggest to use them when
a) the photographer himself is unable to keep a single AF point precisely on the target (depends on skill)
b) when the main subject is not passed by other subjects in a similar distance (any groups)
c) the size of the expanded area would not cover unwanted things in the same distance or close to it, like branches in a tree
d) the background being covered by the expanded area is not a lot more contrasty than the subject. Peoples faces have poor contrast edges.

The larger you go the more you take bets on electronic helpers to replace your own capabilities to point the camera where it should, kind of more and more green mode. With all advantages and disadvantages.

A single MX bike suddenly coming at you. A single bird in flight too fast for you to track yourself. A delphin in a show suddenly jumping out of the water. A single dog running to you. That's the type of thing where I'd use more expansion area. Basically anything I'd call a snapshot / documentary images of a single subject where I do not frame at all but rely on luck and thus am fine to delegate everything to electronics. Point-and-shoot in its original sense.

With single quickly flying subjects Sel-3 seems ok to me.

I seriously suggest to set AF-hold at least to "low" when using expanded area modes. "medium" is more like it. This prevents one of the helper AF points grabbing focus attention too quickly on a contrasty background while some others are still over the subject.
Very good explanation thank you.
Now I understand, problem is mostly in "distraction" objects on similar focusing distance.
If that is the case I should go tighter with Sel2 or Expanded area AF (S)mall with 8 additional points.
If I have a "clean shot" and good contrast on primary subject then I could go wider to Sel3,4 or Expanded area AF M,L with 24 or 32 points.
08-29-2016, 03:23 PM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Plus, there's no configuration information offered by any of the videos that will permit me to say: "Yep, if I do these things, I can do that, too."
Have a look at the linked web pages for the K-3 and the K-1. They give more information on the AF.C modes and options, with diagrams. I wasn't going to copy everything from those pages into here!

And IMHO what we are seeing in those videos is clearly tracking. I don't know why you insist on making the whole discussion so complicated.

This all brings up the issue I have raised for years: Ricoh, stop being lazy. Write a 'White Paper' or 'Technical Guide' on the K-3/K-3II/K-1 AF system, and how to use all of it's features, and either release it as a PDF download or make a detailed web page out of it, with images, examples and settings guides. Canon and Nikon regularly do this. It will help users, and I suspect it will help camera reviewers a lot too ...
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