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09-20-2016, 11:06 AM   #1
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Upgrade from K-5IIs Question

I'm weighing the importance of the benefits that I would receive by upgrading from my K5IIS to the K1 specific to wedding photography. Here is what I've come up with so far in terms of justification for laying down that much money:

1. One stop more of usable ISO. From what I've seen, I can get print-quality shots with the K5II up to 1600 ISO without losing too much clarity/color depth, and ISO 3200 looks comparable on the K1.

2. Superior autofocus on the K1. Many reviews have stated that AF speed and accuracy is superior. Bonus points if it can be confirmed that the tracking speed (C mode) is considerably faster (for walking down the aisle shots).

3. Dual memory card slots! This almost justifies the purchase in itself.

There are a few negatives other than cost including the zooms that I was planning on using are APS-C (Sigma 17-50 and 50-150) but I'll leave that for another thread.

I know there have been several people on here who have done well shooting weddings with the K-5II and much less advanced bodies, but these advances look like they would give me an unquestionable advantage.

Does this sound reasonable and am I missing anything?

Thanks!

09-20-2016, 11:33 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by jab2980 Quote
1. One stop more of usable ISO. From what I've seen, I can get print-quality shots with the K5II up to 1600 ISO without losing too much clarity/color depth, and ISO 3200 looks comparable on the K1.
And don't forget the massive bump in resolution Thanks to that you will probably be able to shoot at even higher settings without losing out on too much.

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09-20-2016, 11:37 AM   #3
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If you use crop lenses in crop mode you should get comparable image sizes to the K5. AF blows the K5 away, and in fact was a decent improvement over the K3 for me. The K1 will track a bird in flight. To me ISO 6400 looks like ISO1600 on the K-01 (same sensor as the K5 series) and ISO 2500ish on the K3, and the K3 was an upgrade from my old K5.
09-20-2016, 11:44 AM - 1 Like   #4
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Sad but true story.
As someone who recently hired a wedding photographer for my own wedding. I can say that my now wife got a "checklist" from one of her wedding boards that stated "make sure your photographer uses FF camera. I laughed she said well it must be important because it was question number 3. So it could help with business cause a lot of brides use these checklist as gospel and if they nor the grooms knows any better you could be missing some gig's.

09-20-2016, 12:24 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by focusr3 Quote
Sad but true story.
As someone who recently hired a wedding photographer for my own wedding. I can say that my now wife got a "checklist" from one of her wedding boards that stated "make sure your photographer uses FF camera. I laughed she said well it must be important because it was question number 3. So it could help with business cause a lot of brides use these checklist as gospel and if they nor the grooms knows any better you could be missing some gig's.
You've gotta be kidding me. Click bait/affiliate sales/list/tips and tricks websites are doing more damage than Cyberdyne ever could. Congrats on the engagement and future wedding!

---------- Post added 09-20-16 at 03:29 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by VoiceOfReason Quote
If you use crop lenses in crop mode you should get comparable image sizes to the K5. AF blows the K5 away, and in fact was a decent improvement over the K3 for me. The K1 will track a bird in flight. To me ISO 6400 looks like ISO1600 on the K-01 (same sensor as the K5 series) and ISO 2500ish on the K3, and the K3 was an upgrade from my old K5.
Thanks for the voice of reason, VoiceofReason. That is great news if I can get even one more stop higher that I had thought.
09-20-2016, 12:43 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by jab2980 Quote
I'm weighing the importance of the benefits that I would receive by upgrading from my K5IIS to the K1 specific to wedding photography. Here is what I've come up with so far in terms of justification for laying down that much money:

1. One stop more of usable ISO. From what I've seen, I can get print-quality shots with the K5II up to 1600 ISO without losing too much clarity/color depth, and ISO 3200 looks comparable on the K1.

2. Superior autofocus on the K1. Many reviews have stated that AF speed and accuracy is superior. Bonus points if it can be confirmed that the tracking speed (C mode) is considerably faster (for walking down the aisle shots).

3. Dual memory card slots! This almost justifies the purchase in itself.

There are a few negatives other than cost including the zooms that I was planning on using are APS-C (Sigma 17-50 and 50-150) but I'll leave that for another thread.

I know there have been several people on here who have done well shooting weddings with the K-5II and much less advanced bodies, but these advances look like they would give me an unquestionable advantage.

Does this sound reasonable and am I missing anything?

Thanks!
The shutter life spec is 300k.
09-20-2016, 12:55 PM   #7
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Q2: walking down the aisle is usually very slow. K-5IIs should have no problem tracking that. I have down it myself and I am not even a professional wedding photographer.

Q3: K-3 and K-3II both have dual memory slots. Either one is significantly cheaper than K-1.

In other words, the real question is whether the improvement in high ISO enough of justification for the investment, and that can only be answered by you. You don't mention the improvement in subject/background isolation, which can be an important aspect.
09-20-2016, 01:37 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by jab2980 Quote
I'm weighing the importance of the benefits that I would receive by upgrading from my K5IIS to the K1 specific to wedding photography. Here is what I've come up with so far in terms of justification for laying down that much money:

1. One stop more of usable ISO. From what I've seen, I can get print-quality shots with the K5II up to 1600 ISO without losing too much clarity/color depth, and ISO 3200 looks comparable on the K1.
The K-1 does about a stop better in noise at 100% zoom. For uncropped prints, with the increased area of the sensor, it's more like a 3 stop improvement. The SR mechanism is also superior as well, so slower shutter speeds are more much more usable.

Other features that might interest a wedding photographer:
- Switchable AA simulator
- panning option for stabilization (useful for bouquet throws)
- Tiltable screen for low angle shots
- focus peaking in live view if you use any MF lenses for specialty shots
- button and mount assist lights for operating in dark areas
- headphone jack if you are using it for videography, better audio controls
- face detection in live mode
- in-body lens corrections for newer lenses
- more customizable interface
- higher flash sync speed


Main drawbacks when compared to the K-5 are size and FPS

09-20-2016, 01:44 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pixelhdr Quote
Q2: walking down the aisle is usually very slow. K-5IIs should have no problem tracking that. I have down it myself and I am not even a professional wedding photographer.

Q3: K-3 and K-3II both have dual memory slots. Either one is significantly cheaper than K-1.

In other words, the real question is whether the improvement in high ISO enough of justification for the investment, and that can only be answered by you. You don't mention the improvement in subject/background isolation, which can be an important aspect.
Thanks, PIxel. Really the only time I've had tracking issues with my K5II have been when my dog is running at me full speed I sorta left out the isolation and resolution as I didn't want to confuse this with a normal FF vs crop question and those 3 things are probably the most important at least with my decision making. Very good point about the dual slots on the K3's, as that is a much cheaper option for redundancy.
09-24-2016, 10:57 PM   #10
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- much larger viewfinder.
- more physical controls, knobs and button and wheels.
- easy adjustment of rear screen, bright enough to read in direct sunlight.
- now two crop modes including square, with latest firmware
- improved shake reduction
09-24-2016, 11:03 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by jab2980 Quote
Bonus points if it can be confirmed that the tracking speed (C mode) is considerably faster (for walking down the aisle shots).
To test this, I suggest you get the bride to RUN down the aisle...
09-24-2016, 11:20 PM   #12
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I won't comment on some of the comments made here because it would have the potential to derail the thread, but I'd like to point out an advantage of the K-1 that no one has brought up yet: Compared to the K-5IIs, the K-1 has a 0.85 stop advantage in terms of maximum dynamic range. At the same ISO setting, the dynamic range advantage of the K-1 is about one 1 stop.

With brides wearing white and grooms wearing black most of the time, one cannot have enough dynamic range, right?
09-25-2016, 12:49 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by jab2980 Quote
I'm weighing the importance of the benefits that I would receive by upgrading from my K5IIS to the K1 specific to wedding photography. Here is what I've come up with so far in terms of justification for laying down that much money:

1. One stop more of usable ISO. From what I've seen, I can get print-quality shots with the K5II up to 1600 ISO without losing too much clarity/color depth, and ISO 3200 looks comparable on the K1.

2. Superior autofocus on the K1. Many reviews have stated that AF speed and accuracy is superior. Bonus points if it can be confirmed that the tracking speed (C mode) is considerably faster (for walking down the aisle shots).

3. Dual memory card slots! This almost justifies the purchase in itself.

There are a few negatives other than cost including the zooms that I was planning on using are APS-C (Sigma 17-50 and 50-150) but I'll leave that for another thread.

I know there have been several people on here who have done well shooting weddings with the K-5II and much less advanced bodies, but these advances look like they would give me an unquestionable advantage.

Does this sound reasonable and am I missing anything?

Thanks!

Well, if you want it and you have the money, go for it. There is no wrong decision if you just want it because you want it.


I would dearly LOVE to buy a K1 and the three Ltd's for wedding work, but the market I'm in is slow as creeping death, and right now money is a bit tight. So just because I want it is not enough to make the sacrifice.


Now do I need it? I personally don't and I'm not sure anyone really does for wedding work. If you can't shoot a professional $1500 wedding with a K5II and some good lenses, you just can't shoot and need to work on that first. Case in point: we did just that today. I shot the K3II and the wife shot the K5IIs and 1000 photos later it looks great and the bride will be well pleased. All the work on our website is crop camera from the past 15 years and a lot of that work was with sub 10mp crop cameras.


One major point: I have stopped using the 2.8 zooms mostly with the k5/k3 and now shoot a lot of my wedding work with the 21mm, 35mm and 70mm ltds. They're not even remotely fast lenses but they are very sharp, have lovely color and weigh almost nothing on a K5/k3 body. The fact is that a K1 with a 24-70 zoom on it is 4+ pounds. There is no way I'm carrying that and lifting it to my face 650 times in a day. That's just the way it is. I'd go the additional pound for the K1 and 31mm or 43mm or 77, but even if I had the money the zooms are out for me. If you are under 30 years old it may not be an issue...


To answer your questions more directly:


1.) We never really shoot over iso 800 and use flash/fill flash about 95% of the time.


2.) I've never missed a walking down the isle shot with a manual focus film camera or any AF camera I've ever used. Not sure why it's so hard for everyone else. Maybe more helpful is my wife has no issues with the K5II and those shots with the AF. We also have NEVER used AF-c at a wedding, EVER. Not even sure why anyone would.


3.) As for dual card slots, I personally have never had an issue using one. (Shooting weddings exclusively digital since 2005) I do like that the K3II has 2, but only because I write raw to 1 and jpeg to the other. On the K5II we use we just write raws. No big deal really either way.


Again, if it turns you on and you have the money do it, love it, and don't look back.


If you need to justify it because you don't have the money, forget it. The benefits in no way justify the cost for weddings. At least in my opinion. You would get way more bang for the buck going for a K3II, particularly if you can snag one at a sale price like $729 in a few months during the annual Holiday Pentax blow out. We plan on upgrading the wife's K5IIs this Holiday season with another k3II on sale. (But if our money situation turns around she gets my K3II and I'm getting a K1. )

---------- Post added 09-25-16 at 01:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by focusr3 Quote
Sad but true story.
As someone who recently hired a wedding photographer for my own wedding. I can say that my now wife got a "checklist" from one of her wedding boards that stated "make sure your photographer uses FF camera. I laughed she said well it must be important because it was question number 3. So it could help with business cause a lot of brides use these checklist as gospel and if they nor the grooms knows any better you could be missing some gig's.


We are getting that question asked a lot. Our answer is "do you like our display albums and prints?" They say "yes" and we say "none of them were shot with FF." The discussion goes on from there, but every bride that has asked that question has booked us...


One bride said a photographer she met with made a big deal about how her work was all FF, and the bride told us she thought that photographer's work looked like crap and she booked us.


All the expensive gear in the world won't make up for not knowing what you're doing.

---------- Post added 09-25-16 at 01:55 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
To test this, I suggest you get the bride to RUN down the aisle...


LOL, That's funny!
09-25-2016, 06:04 AM - 2 Likes   #14
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Just saw another thread here that jogged my memory about an aspect of the K-3 bodies that might give you pause when considering them for wedding work. If you use a lot of fill flash for your photos, be aware that there is a severe and very annoying shutter lag when using P-TTL mode (and perhaps A? I haven't used my K-3 in a while) on these models, making it pretty much useless for critically timed shots. If you primarily use manual mode, it's not an issue, as there is no lag, but that's just one more thing to fiddle with, meaning you could be missing valuable photo opportunities.

This issue has been resolved for the K-1.
09-25-2016, 10:22 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I won't comment on some of the comments made here because it would have the potential to derail the thread, but I'd like to point out an advantage of the K-1 that no one has brought up yet: Compared to the K-5IIs, the K-1 has a 0.85 stop advantage in terms of maximum dynamic range. At the same ISO setting, the dynamic range advantage of the K-1 is about one 1 stop.

With brides wearing white and grooms wearing black most of the time, one cannot have enough dynamic range, right?
I also will not comment on some of the comments but will add:

Some of the advantages the K1 has over cameras with crop sensors are possible only when the entire K1 sensor is used.. the K1 is effectively turned into a K5-or-so when DA lenses like the 50-135 are used.

Using the entire K1 sensor with a 70-200 for same framing and working distance will unleash many of the advantages that have been mentioned in this thread. Whether or not that 70-200 should be an f/2.8 or an f/4 is another consideration.. [Here, I mean advantages related to higher ISO performance and DR as Class A rightfully points out while advantages like AF or utility with flash remain the same, crop or not..]
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